So what about the fourth commandment?
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I did answer. you are not reading. Violation of a law is sin. The curse of sin (eating swine, violating the Sabbath, etc) is death. Are you reading? Technically, sheol is the grave. Now, as far as the lake of fire, if a real believer sins, then the Messiah is their Advocate. Again, He took the penalty for our sins, so a believer is "saved" by Yeshua. Does that mean I should keep on sinning? God forbid.
Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.
The purpose of the law was :
1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20
2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8
3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11
4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24
The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.
But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.
Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross.
Satan uses the law against us. Satan comes and says to you - you broke the law - you are condemned now according to the law. BUT our Lord took that punishment for breaking that law for us. When Christ takes away the condemnation of the law which satan uses against when he accuses us - he is being "disarmed".
If disarmed means anything - it means he did have a weapon but now he doesn't because of our Lord. How great is our salvation in Him!
The purpose of the law was :
1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20
2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8
3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11
4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24
The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.
But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.
Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross.
Satan uses the law against us. Satan comes and says to you - you broke the law - you are condemned now according to the law. BUT our Lord took that punishment for breaking that law for us. When Christ takes away the condemnation of the law which satan uses against when he accuses us - he is being "disarmed".
If disarmed means anything - it means he did have a weapon but now he doesn't because of our Lord. How great is our salvation in Him!
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1 John 3:7-8 (KJV)
1 John 3:7-8 (KJV)
Disciplemike,
Here is another good example of you saying that we are saved through Christ and then you list the works of the law. The observance of those things as a means of salvation is exactly why Israel did not obtain righteousness and now you are teaching that those within the church should follow those same works. For if you are proclaiming their observance as a requirement for salvation, then you are teaching salvation by the works of the law.
We are not under those things to keep them, for we died to the law. This is what I meant when I say that you double-talk. You say "no, we are saved by Christ only" and then you claim the works of the law as necessary for salvation.
"What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.
Sheol should never be translated as the grave, for it refers to the underworld of departed spirits which is synonymous with Hades. Qeber is the proper word describing the grave, tomb or sepulcher and should be used to make a distinction between that place where the body lay vs. the place where the spirit/soul goes after death.
Here is another good example of you saying that we are saved through Christ and then you list the works of the law. The observance of those things as a means of salvation is exactly why Israel did not obtain righteousness and now you are teaching that those within the church should follow those same works. For if you are proclaiming their observance as a requirement for salvation, then you are teaching salvation by the works of the law.
We are not under those things to keep them, for we died to the law. This is what I meant when I say that you double-talk. You say "no, we are saved by Christ only" and then you claim the works of the law as necessary for salvation.
"What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.
Sheol should never be translated as the grave, for it refers to the underworld of departed spirits which is synonymous with Hades. Qeber is the proper word describing the grave, tomb or sepulcher and should be used to make a distinction between that place where the body lay vs. the place where the spirit/soul goes after death.
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I just posted it above. You are in denial. Why don't you goe somewhere else with your claims of observing the works of the law. We are not going to give into you for a moment regarding this. We know the way of salvation, which is by faith alone and not be abstaining from certain foods, or keeping the Sabbath or any other works of the law. And God knows that I lie not.
Hi Bader58,
Yes and no! Now, instead of Israel who stumbled over the stumbling stone, in these last days Gentiles are also stumbling over that same stone. I am always amazed in that we have the Holy Spirit demonstrating through Paul so many illustrations of how we are not saved by the works of the law, but by grace through faith apart from the works of the law, yet as you can see, there are many who would keep us bound to them. If they continue to trust in those works as needing to be done, then they will according to scripture, they will never enter into the kingdom of God. They are trying to find favor with God by keeping and performing those works.
Yes and no! Now, instead of Israel who stumbled over the stumbling stone, in these last days Gentiles are also stumbling over that same stone. I am always amazed in that we have the Holy Spirit demonstrating through Paul so many illustrations of how we are not saved by the works of the law, but by grace through faith apart from the works of the law, yet as you can see, there are many who would keep us bound to them. If they continue to trust in those works as needing to be done, then they will according to scripture, they will never enter into the kingdom of God. They are trying to find favor with God by keeping and performing those works.
You are saying the ceremonial law, the Sabbath and eating laws is required . Does that mean something? Did you change your mind?
Still waiting for you to explain just what the first century reformation reformed? What’s up?
What happened to the shadows and types used in the ceremonial laws? What was the good temporal purpose for them? Did it get reformed? Or is the flesh of Christ hiding under a bushel basket.?
Scripture says Christ was cut off to represent our bloody husband Christ. (circumcision) What do the outward Jews say ?
Do they say he has come in the flesh or like the antichrists he has not come.?
And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee” hereafter for ever”. And his disciples heard it. Mar 11:13
How long is hereafter forever? Is it as long as the reformation?
Does having Jewish flesh that originated from the Amorites, "Abraham’s flesh", mean a person does not have to repent?
Jesus Curses the Fig Tree. Both the Gospels of Matthew and Mark tell the following story of Jesus and His encounter with that fig tree:
"In the morning, as Jesus was returning to Jerusalem, he was hungry, and he noticed a fig tree beside the road. He went over to see if there were any figs on it, but there were only leaves. Then he said to it, 'May you never bear fruit again!' And immediately the fig tree withered up. The disciples were amazed when they saw this and asked, 'How did the fig tree wither so quickly?' Then Jesus told them, 'I assure you, if you have faith and don't doubt, you can do things like this and much more. You can even say to this mountain, 'May God lift you up and throw you into the sea,' and it will happen. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer (Matthew 21:18-22, NLT).
This story as a parable is about the fig tree representing a Jew and its lack of fruit strikes at the heart of the gospel message.
Again, What did the first century reformation reform?
Still waiting for you to explain just what the first century reformation reformed? What’s up?
What happened to the shadows and types used in the ceremonial laws? What was the good temporal purpose for them? Did it get reformed? Or is the flesh of Christ hiding under a bushel basket.?
Scripture says Christ was cut off to represent our bloody husband Christ. (circumcision) What do the outward Jews say ?
Do they say he has come in the flesh or like the antichrists he has not come.?
And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee” hereafter for ever”. And his disciples heard it. Mar 11:13
How long is hereafter forever? Is it as long as the reformation?
Does having Jewish flesh that originated from the Amorites, "Abraham’s flesh", mean a person does not have to repent?
Jesus Curses the Fig Tree. Both the Gospels of Matthew and Mark tell the following story of Jesus and His encounter with that fig tree:
"In the morning, as Jesus was returning to Jerusalem, he was hungry, and he noticed a fig tree beside the road. He went over to see if there were any figs on it, but there were only leaves. Then he said to it, 'May you never bear fruit again!' And immediately the fig tree withered up. The disciples were amazed when they saw this and asked, 'How did the fig tree wither so quickly?' Then Jesus told them, 'I assure you, if you have faith and don't doubt, you can do things like this and much more. You can even say to this mountain, 'May God lift you up and throw you into the sea,' and it will happen. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer (Matthew 21:18-22, NLT).
This story as a parable is about the fig tree representing a Jew and its lack of fruit strikes at the heart of the gospel message.
Again, What did the first century reformation reform?
I think you turning things upside down again .There is a difference between not be found with a righteousness of one self (self righteousness) and a righteousness of Christ, the righteousness of God, by His faith.. Its the faith of Christ not the faith we put in Him as our amen.
Are you thinking God does not need faith to work out out his promises or create the world ?
Is that where our differences lie... between faith of and faith in? The apostate Jews turned it up side down . Are you having the faith of Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God in respect to them and not Christ alone? That outcome shows someone has blasphemed the holy name by which Christians are called .Are you against Christians? If not why are you trying to punish them?
Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith "of" our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord "of" glory, with respect of persons.
Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that "worthy name" by the which ye are called?
Are you thinking God does not need faith to work out out his promises or create the world ?
Is that where our differences lie... between faith of and faith in? The apostate Jews turned it up side down . Are you having the faith of Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God in respect to them and not Christ alone? That outcome shows someone has blasphemed the holy name by which Christians are called .Are you against Christians? If not why are you trying to punish them?
Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith "of" our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord "of" glory, with respect of persons.
Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that "worthy name" by the which ye are called?
No one who drinks old wine wants New Wine. And those who have drunk The New Wine recognize where it came from and don't want the old. And. To mix the two together?
not good
or we can refer to John 2 and the visual recap of the lord of the (seventh day) sabbath pouring into 6 empty earthen vessels signifying the 6th day creation (used for purification) water which He had changed to new wine because....
the wine had run out
And
we should also remember
what God makes clean....IS clean
not good
or we can refer to John 2 and the visual recap of the lord of the (seventh day) sabbath pouring into 6 empty earthen vessels signifying the 6th day creation (used for purification) water which He had changed to new wine because....
the wine had run out
And
we should also remember
what God makes clean....IS clean
The law verse grace again
2 Extremes
Saved by the law is one extreme and grace has taken all laws away is the other extreme.
Can salvation through grace and the keeping of the law exist together?
Yes, It can.
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Deu_7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Deu_11:1 Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.
Deu_11:22 For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;
Deu_19:9 If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways; then shalt thou add three cities more for thee, beside these three:
Deu_30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
Jos_22:5 But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Dan_9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh_14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Can you notice anything in all these verses? The connection between loving God and keeping His commandments.
Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Before you argue which commandments we should and shouldn’t keep, You need to admit that keeping the commandments is a way of saying I Love the Lord.
If I Keep the Sabbath to say I Love Jesus is there anything wrong with that?
2 Extremes
Saved by the law is one extreme and grace has taken all laws away is the other extreme.
Can salvation through grace and the keeping of the law exist together?
Yes, It can.
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Deu_7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Deu_11:1 Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.
Deu_11:22 For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;
Deu_19:9 If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways; then shalt thou add three cities more for thee, beside these three:
Deu_30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
Jos_22:5 But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Dan_9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh_14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Can you notice anything in all these verses? The connection between loving God and keeping His commandments.
Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Before you argue which commandments we should and shouldn’t keep, You need to admit that keeping the commandments is a way of saying I Love the Lord.
If I Keep the Sabbath to say I Love Jesus is there anything wrong with that?
Satan did use the law against us, The Law that is Holy and Good, the thing that reveals what sin is. If there was no Law Satan couldn't hold us as sinners, guilty of death. Jesus has freed us from the penalty of the law because He paid it in full for us, (sin = death,- Jesus died our death). Did Jesus take the law away or the just penalty of the law?