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Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#41
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#41
Amen...well said...there is a time to confront those types that are trying to degrade the gospel of the grace of Christ. Paul called them the "dogs of the circumcision"..I noticed he didn't say anyone's name specifically......but of course those "dogs" would be offended even if he didn't name them personally.

Why?..Because the truth bears witness against them and they are offended.....that's when they will attack you personally...it's the nature of the beast...of course we are in no way perturbed at their attacks....we expect them.....it goes with preaching the gospel....:)

Utah said:
On edit: I rejoice for people when they come to understand the fullness of God's grace. Its not about dominating people; I truly want people to embrace the grace. Some people have the veil removed, others don't. More often than not, those who don't are very Pharisaic in their demeanor, and that's when I meet force with force. My love remains, but my diplomacy usually doesn't.
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T

thepsalmist

Guest
#42
#42
Utah said:
On edit: I rejoice for people when they come to understand the fullness of God's grace. Its not about dominating people; I truly want people to embrace the grace. Some people have the veil removed, others don't. More often than not, those who don't are very Pharisaic in their demeanor, and that's when I meet force with force. My love remains, but my diplomacy usually doesn't.
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Each to his or her own ... we must all apply the word of God as we understand it.

For myself - I TRY to stay unchanging -

I don't like the idea of changing my identity, behavior or integrity according to circumstances.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#43
#43
Grace777x70 said:
There is a vast difference between calling someone personally a name...then to just call out in a general sense a certain "type" of person...like a Pharisee, judaizer.....etc..

....if people are offended when a general type is exposed for what they are doing - then maybe when these types of people are being exposed - they are resembling the ones that are being offended....but there is no personal attack on the person themselves...the truth is just bearing witness against them and thus they attack the person talking about the "types" of people.....it's the nature of the beast......selah
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I agree with Your truth no doubt but I also think if one is planning on moving from one church to another or what ever just do it.
in this thread it was a little discieving for the OP to say at the end ( if I don't see ya'll again) I know very well what this means still more hidden feelings now if the OP had said at the start I'm thinking of leaving and this is why then I can respect that but to end it with a hope to say ya again, in my mind is what ever that's a sugar coating type.
 
T

thepsalmist

Guest
#44
#44
I don't know how others feel about this ... but when Paul exclaims that he wished those of the circumcision would go the whole way and emasculate themselves ... I shudder.
 
Utah

Utah

Banned
#45
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#45
Grace777x70 said:
Amen...well said...there is a time to confront those types that are trying to degrade the gospel of the grace of Christ. Paul called them the "dogs of the circumcision"..I noticed he didn't say anyone's name specifically......but of course those "dogs" would be offended even if he didn't name them personally.

Why?..Because the truth bears witness against them and they are offended.....that's when they will attack you personally...it's the nature of the beast...of course we are in no way perturbed at their attacks....we expect them.....it goes with preaching the gospel....:)
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This is my life's calling:

Fight the good fight, finish the race, and keep the faith. 2 Timothy 4:7 :cool:
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#46
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#46
Pharisees are the jewish leaders that Jesus was so against in His ministry and they were against Him..

Here is a website that talks about the Judaizers....basically they were people that opposed Paul and the message of the gospel of grace in Christ alone..

International Bible Teaching Ministries

Here is a paragraph from it....

Judaizers continued to trouble the Lord’s church for many years. Because Paul strongly opposed them, they attacked him. They denied he was really an apostle. They tried to destroy his influence so they could destroy the Gospel he preached (1 Corinthians 9:1-4; 2 Corinthians 10:1-13:6; Galatians 1:6-2:21).



Depleted said:
Not very effective if you assume the labels "Pharisees" and "Judiazers" so easily. (TBH, I really don't know what a Judiazer is, nor do I want to know, since it seems to be a Christianese slur.)
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D

Depleted

Guest
#47
#47
Grace777x70 said:
There is a vast difference between calling someone personally a name...then to just call out in a general sense a certain "type" of person...like a Pharisee, judaizer.....etc..

....if people are offended when a general type is exposed for what they are doing - then maybe when these types of people are being exposed - they are resembling the ones that are being offended....but there is no personal attack on the person themselves...the truth is just bearing witness against them and thus they attack the person talking about the "types" of people.....it's the nature of the beast......selah
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Have you ever called out a "general type," or was it an individual?

Not a very good personal-justification either.

You're new enough that I can give you a heads up about this forum on this site. (I was here before you and left specifically because of this crap. I came back, because I need real help from the sisses and bros. IF I were smart, I'd avoid this forum all together. As you can tell, I'm not that smart.)

First, do you remember when you first joined? Kind of scary, wasn't it? You didn't know everyone, but you assumed all were Christians, so cool! Right? And then you noticed some weren't. And then you noticed there are chips on some shoulders so big, Robert Conrad couldn't knock them off. (You're the right age to catch the reference, but I don't know if American battery commercials make it to Canada. lol) And then you started fitting in. But with whom?

People with sizeable chips are also people constantly on the lookout for new folks to fit in with them.

Short moral to a long ramble: Don't fall for the strategy and become like them. It's very easy to do because it's so welcoming.
 
Utah

Utah

Banned
#48
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#48
thepsalmist said:
Each to his or her own ... we must all apply the word of God as we understand it.

For myself - I TRY to stay unchanging -

I don't like the idea of changing my identity, behavior or integrity according to circumstances.
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My identity and integrity are concrete. But thanks anyway.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#49
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#49
it would be worse if you were a man....it means to cut it right off.......not just to get circumcised...that is a real shudder...:)

thepsalmist said:
I don't know how others feel about this ... but when Paul exclaims that he wished those of the circumcision would go the whole way and emasculate themselves ... I shudder.
Click to expand...
 
R

roaringkitten

Guest
#50
#50
The Bible says:

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." John 4:23-24

Unity at the expense of truth is blatantly unBiblical. Men worship in vain if they do not worship in spirit and truth. How is it possible to put on the whole armour of God if one is missing truth?("loins girt about with truth" Eph 6:14). The enemy attacks at the weakest link. The truth really is that important, for Jesus IS the truth!(John 14:6)
 
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thepsalmist

Guest
#51
#51
Grace777x70 said:
it would be worse if you were a man....it means to cut it right off.......not just to get circumcised...that is a real shudder...:)
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Yes indeed it does! And this comes from a man who admits freely that he was the worst of them - fighting against Jesus (and his doctrine) ... Good thing for him that when Jesus appeared to him HE did not tell him to emasculate himself ...
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#52
#52
thepsalmist said:
I agree with your post.

I would just elaborate on one thing in your statement ... we are not trying to "slay the pharisee" ... but the false doctrine that he shares.

God wants all men to come to the truth ~

I think the distinction is important because if we go into battle with the wrong mindset it WILL affect our fight.
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I thought we were supposed to "Paul" them.

Yeah, I turned a proper name into a verb, but please remember Paul was Saul, the chief among the Pharisees. And then... he saw the Light and HE blinded him. And The Light renamed him Paul and put him to work.

Instead of slaying anything, how about pointing them to the Light with love?

I had/have the heart of a Pharisee, but the Light is hot and is drossing me out of that heart. (Hasn't removed all the impurities, but I can see the drainage ditch full of what I was and still see some impurities swirling around.)

Have God light the heart and there is no one left to spout the doctrines.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#53
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#53
I hear ya'...I like to speak out in general terms by saying Pharisees and judaizers etc....and they are just terms to describe general types....

now if I say that all adulterers are not loving their spouses and are ignorant of the life of Christ in them...if someone gets mad at that....most likely they are in adultery or have been in the past and it offends them...and I can understand that.

...if I say to someone that they are an adulterer directly to them....then that is different matter entirely...

I hear ya' That is great advice to not becoming like them that attack other people personally.


Depleted said:
Have you ever called out a "general type," or was it an individual?

Not a very good personal-justification either.

You're new enough that I can give you a heads up about this forum on this site. (I was here before you and left specifically because of this crap. I came back, because I need real help from the sisses and bros. IF I were smart, I'd avoid this forum all together. As you can tell, I'm not that smart.)

First, do you remember when you first joined? Kind of scary, wasn't it? You didn't know everyone, but you assumed all were Christians, so cool! Right? And then you noticed some weren't. And then you noticed there are chips on some shoulders so big, Robert Conrad couldn't knock them off. (You're the right age to catch the reference, but I don't know if American battery commercials make it to Canada. lol) And then you started fitting in. But with whom?

People with sizeable chips are also people constantly on the lookout for new folks to fit in with them.

Short moral to a long ramble: Don't fall for the strategy and become like them. It's very easy to do because it's so welcoming.
Click to expand...
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#54
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#54
...I can see that too..maybe he was attacked in a wrong way and it grieved him..that happens on here...


BeyondET said:
I agree with Your truth no doubt but I also think if one is planning on moving from one church to another or what ever just do it.
in this thread it was a little discieving for the OP to say at the end ( if I don't see ya'll again) I know very well what this means still more hidden feelings now if the OP had said at the start I'm thinking of leaving and this is why then I can respect that but to end it with a hope to say ya again, in my mind is what ever that's a sugar coating type.
Click to expand...
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#55
#55
eternally-gratefull said:
Hopefully it was BECAUSE someone was standing up force able for the truth against the false teachers that you questioned and got to ask those two to speak to you in peace.
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Nah. It was because God worked it out in his usual manner, despite what we hope. We ain't quite as important as we think we are. God has stated he could get the same thing accomplished by stones.

Luke 19:40 He answered, “I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out.”
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#56
#56
thepsalmist said:
I don't know how others feel about this ... but when Paul exclaims that he wished those of the circumcision would go the whole way and emasculate themselves ... I shudder.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I keep thinking, as a woman, that shouldn't bother me, but I do tend to scrunch my legs together little tighter when I read that anyway.
 
T

thepsalmist

Guest
#57
#57
Depleted said:
Yeah. I keep thinking, as a woman, that shouldn't bother me, but I do tend to scrunch my legs together little tighter when I read that anyway.
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hahaha :)

... my point was that we easily forget from where we have fallen.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#58
#58
Depleted said:
Nah. It was because God worked it out in his usual manner, despite what we hope. We ain't quite as important as we think we are. God has stated he could get the same thing accomplished by stones.

Luke 19:40He answered, “I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out.”
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Thats right, You know it all..

If it were not for someone getting into my face, and continually questioning my beliefs, I would still be in trouble.

But hey, If your God and KNOWS how everyone works.. Then why are you even here? You know everything..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#59
#59
thepsalmist said:
Each to his or her own ... we must all apply the word of God as we understand it.

For myself - I TRY to stay unchanging -

I don't like the idea of changing my identity, behavior or integrity according to circumstances.
Click to expand...
even if God said it needs changed?

I think that is one of our issues, We will not change no matter what. That is what gets us into trouble
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#60
#60
Grace777x70 said:
Pharisees are the jewish leaders that Jesus was so against in His ministry and they were against Him..

Here is a website that talks about the Judaizers....basically they were people that opposed Paul and the message of the gospel of grace in Christ alone..

International Bible Teaching Ministries

Here is a paragraph from it....

Judaizers continued to trouble the Lord’s church for many years. Because Paul strongly opposed them, they attacked him. They denied he was really an apostle. They tried to destroy his influence so they could destroy the Gospel he preached (1 Corinthians 9:1-4; 2 Corinthians 10:1-13:6; Galatians 1:6-2:21).
Click to expand...
Actually, the Pharisees were one of two sects that ran the Sanhedrin. They were the ones who went into great detail on how to keep The Torah just right, and they knew all the ins and outs in minute details. They studied what we now call the Old Testament so much, they had most of it memorized. If you lost control of your cart and it ran into a neighbor's cow, you'd go to them to see how much you owed your neighbor. You'd go to them if your cart ran into his pet peacock too, because peacocks aren't covered in the Torah, so they wrote that law too.

They knew the Torah better than any of us ever would. And they were into fixing it because they came to the same problem we ran into -- "it can't be done."

They were the religious leaders. What they lost along the way was God.

Many of us were Pharisees. Not before, but after we were saved. Most of us still are at varying degrees. The hard part is giving up on thinking we can do right by God. Tell me that's not still in you. It's still in me.

That's the problem with these words. They fit us all yet we'd rather point to people who we perceive to be bigger, shinier examples... instead of seeing ourselves and our continual need for God to change us from what we'd rather be because it's easier. It is easier to do the surface of the law and ignore the intent. The intent is to realize we can't, but God can and will through us. Our job is to deplete ourselves and let him fill in what had to be hollowed out.
<---me forgetting to do my job!
 
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