Speaking in tongues

[garee]

ok ... no sure that helps, but this is what I see

tongues...both a sign and a spiritual gift...see my post to notmebuthim

nobody asked for a sign...God says a sign to the unbeliever and a spiritual gift to the believer for edification (as per scripture) and for the body

it seems to me you are confusing asking for a sign as opposed to being given a sign

there is a difference and that is the sign regarding tongues...so...not a lack of faith or rebellion

Tongues is two fold in its purpose, (1) A gift or blessing of God bringing his interpretation prophecy in other languages other than Hebrew alone (no outward sign) And (2) those who do not hearken to the word of God prophecy in any language. The new prophecy in respect to the gentile nation confirm the unbelievers that would never get under the authority of God but rather that of men called oral tradition .By there oral tradition they made prophecy without effect, God was mocking those who mocked prophecy.The sign is still pointing to those who refuse to believe prophecy alone. Christ has come in the flesh for a one time demonstration

So tongues God brining new prophecy was a blessing to those who hear the word of God (prophecy) but at the same time a curse showing those who hold to the oral tradition have no authority (no faith) to beleive God . ( no prophecy )

nobody asked for a sign...God says a sign to the unbeliever and a spiritual gift to the believer for edification (as per scripture) and for the body

I don't find that kind of language of gift and sign working together as that which must seek after to confirm anything .


Signs follow in some parables but are not to be sought after . like that of drinking poison and raising the dead. Two metaphors that represent the power of the gospel . To drink poison simply means a person will not beleive the false doctrine of men. like the fathers who Christ called a brood of vipers. The raising of dead speaks of the final resurrection when all saints will receive the final goal of their faith a new incorruptible body

 

[garee]

And they say they have interpreters- how would you know what is being interpreted is what was actually said? If it is something that lines with what the scriptures say, it is absolutely pointless and a waste of time to teach it in a new 'heavenly/angelic' language only for it to be interpreted back to something that people understand.

If this is not mocking God, i don't what is

Thats why the sign is against them they mock prophecy so God mocks them by speaking inspiring men to bring the word in multiple languages . He does not bring a coded secret message that must be interpreted by a sinner .

As always the Holy Spirit must do the work of interpreting his thoughts . First things first .Not as if he has no understanding to offer as the unconverted Jew taught turning things upside down . How could we call our relationship with God personal as two walking together in agreement if we needed someone besides the Holy Spirit that richly dwells in the believer to inform us of His thoughts

2 Peter 1:19-21 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that "no prophecy" of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

nobody asked for a sign...God says a sign to the unbeliever and a spiritual gift to the believer for edification (as per scripture) and for the body
I don't find that kind of language of gift and sign working together as that which must seek after to confirm anything .

I don't think it's up for discussion as the Bible calls it what it is

I didn't make it up

how people 'use' tongues today doesn't change what is originally written...tongues was abused back in the day as well or Paul would not have written the Corinthians as he did

it's not a question for me. I just read what is written and that is the way I understand it and I don't even think it's a deep subject

thanks

 

[Dino246]

I'm not the one claiming a sign, I am simply asking why there is no evidence of the sign. If scripture states that the 1st century age of the miraculous never ended then scripture is a lie. Since scripture does not lie, you are in error.

Scripture does not make any claim with regard to the age of the miraculous. Yours is an argument from silence.

 

[Dino246]

...

2 Peter 1:19-21 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that "no prophecy" of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Irrelevant to the topic. Explained already... more than once. Why do you repeat your error?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

And they say they have interpreters- how would you know what is being interpreted is what was actually said? If it is something that lines with what the scriptures say, it is absolutely pointless and a waste of time to teach it in a new 'heavenly/angelic' language only for it to be interpreted back to something that people understand.

If this is not mocking God, i don't what is

Thats why the sign is against them they mock prophecy so God mocks them by speaking inspiring men to bring the word in multiple languages . He does not bring a coded secret message that must be interpreted by a sinner .

As always the Holy Spirit must do the work of interpreting his thoughts . First things first .Not as if he has no understanding to offer as the unconverted Jew taught turning things upside down . How could we call our relationship with God personal as two walking together in agreement if we needed someone besides the Holy Spirit that richly dwells in the believer to inform us of His thoughts

2 Peter 1:19-21 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that "no prophecy" of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

I missed the part about mocking God, so addressing it now

I would like to know (really) how you see mocking God in anything to do with the gifts of the Holy Spirit

I would like to know how you see what happened in the book of Acts when the Holy Spirit fell, as God mocking anyone at all

when about 3000 people were added to the believers that day, as scripture attests, how could mocking be involved?

I dunno. you seem to have some strange interpretations I have not seen anywhere else

there is no mocking involved whatsoever...but if this is what you think? it is your own personal understanding but really, I don't wish to discuss it further with you because I find your response confusing to say the least as you are putting verses together that have nothing to do with each other...you are taking them completely out of context

I say the above without prejudice but honestly! you can't possibly achieve what you are saying about tongues without really not understanding what is going on at both Pentecost and in the use of the gift

sorry, but I will stick with the simple explanations in scripture that are also revel fulfilled prophecy with regards the book of Acts

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I am left somewhat gobsmacked by being told that the Holy Spirit sent from God was God mocking unbelievers

I never heard that before

I defer to Acts chapter 2 to the events that actually happened in which prophecy was fulfilled (Joel) and thousands were saved

Acts 2 says that the Jews gathered in Jerusalem for the day of Pentecost were GOD FEARING...not God mocking

v.5 5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.

 

[garee]

Irrelevant to the topic. Explained already... more than once. Why do you repeat your error?

Which error is that ? That the whole bible is God's interpretation and is of no private interpretation as that which you makes claim to Paul ? Many will pit Paul against James for instance . Pitting the word of God against the word of God simply makes the whole word of prophecy without effect.

 

[Dino246]

Which error is that ? That the whole bible is God's interpretation and is of no private interpretation as that which you makes claim to Paul ? Many will pit Paul against James for instance . Pitting the word of God against the word of God simply makes the whole word of prophecy without effect.

Another off-topic rant. This thread is about speaking in tongues. 2 Peter 1:19-21 is not at all about tongues. It is about the origin of scriptural prophecy. That's it, that's all. No tongues.

 

[garee]

I missed the part about mocking God, so addressing it now

I would like to know (really) how you see mocking God in anything to do with the gifts of the Holy Spirit

I would like to know how you see what happened in the book of Acts when the Holy Spirit fell, as God mocking anyone at all

when about 3000 people were added to the believers that day, as scripture attests, how could mocking be involved?

I dunno. you seem to have some strange interpretations I have not seen anywhere else

there is no mocking involved whatsoever...but if this is what you think? it is your own personal understanding but really, I don't wish to discuss it further with you because I find your response confusing to say the least as you are putting verses together that have nothing to do with each other...you are taking them completely out of context

I say the above without prejudice but honestly! you can't possibly achieve what you are saying about tongues without really not understanding what is going on at both Pentecost and in the use of the gift

sorry, but I will stick with the simple explanations in scripture that are also revel fulfilled prophecy with regards the book of Acts

People have different interpretations depending on how they beleive they hear the word of God, Called private interpretations or personal commentaries of what they think God is teaching them when they do seek after His approval. Every man has an opinion( a heresy )

The gift is, prophecy spoken in other languages other than Hebrews alone .(no outward sign just believing hearts). The apostate Jew mocked God by refusing to hear prophecy .When they saw God fulfil the sign that was against them they knew but did not care that God was mocking them just as God said beforehand . He confirmed them in their unbelief (no faith) .They would not hear because they could not hear .This is seeing its the work of prophecy to give us ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to us the churches .The sign is against those who will not hear prophecy even today .many Jew cry out against a wall in hope Christ will come in the flesh ,this is even though the veil is rent that signified he had come.

When he worked in the heart of 3000 men that day . It was a sign to all of the unbelieving Jews who rather sought after the oral traditions of men and not the tradition of God, Prophecy.

Personally I canot see how or why men turn that law upside down and make the sign something that those who beleive prophecy to no effect .Its seems clear to who the sign is in respect to and what it confirms (unbelief no faith)

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues (languages other than Hebrew alone) and other lips (other than the lips of a Hebrew alone) will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe (that are trusting prophecy) , but to them that "believe not"not trusting prophecy) but prophesying (trusting the word of God) serveth not for them that believe not, (prophecy) but for them which believe.( Prophecy) 1 Corinthians 14

The law...

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering (mocking ) lips and another tongue (other languages other than Hebrew alone) will he speak to this people.(those who hear God and believe as it is written ) To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that "they" might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:Isaiah 28 :10- 15

 

[DJ2]

Scripture does not make any claim with regard to the age of the miraculous. Yours is an argument from silence.

You really need to look up the meaning of the word "IF".

 

[garee]

Another off-topic rant. This thread is about speaking in tongues. 2 Peter 1:19-21 is not at all about tongues. It is about the origin of scriptural prophecy. That's it, that's all. No tongues.

I was speaking of something someone (Dino) said in so much the words of Paul wrote or spoke was not prophecy .

 

[Dino246]

You really need to look up the meaning of the word "IF".

Yawn. Try reading what I wrote before you respond.

 

[DJ2]

Scripture does not make any claim with regard to the age of the miraculous. Yours is an argument from silence.

Tell that to the "God is the same today, tomorrow and yesterday" ilk. They see the miraculous under every rock.

 

[DJ2]

Yawn. Try reading what I wrote before you respond.

Enlighten this poor simple soul.

 

[shrume]

The gift is, prophecy spoken in other languages other than Hebrews alone .(no outward sign just believing hearts).

No matter how many times you say it, the manifestation of speaking in tongues never has been, is not, and never will be, prophecy.

 

[Waggles]

TESTIMONY - from Mark who lives in South Australia and is part of
The Revival Fellowship here in Adelaide

THE LORD KNOWS YOUR HEART, AND HE CHANGES YOU
I did not know a god, or experience any proof that there was one, and didn’t want to know one.
I had a particular dislike for Christians to say the least. I smoked 60 cigarettes a day and drank until I dropped
and with that came fighting, etc.
I was not a nice person.

My wife came to know the Lord and I was not happy.
I spent three and a half years trying to get her out of this crazy Christian group which I had no knowledge of
and didn’t want to know.
I tried everything in the book, I wasn’t at all nice, and I treated her like dirt but the more I tried the stronger she became.
The children went to the meetings too, and received the Holy Spirit and I would try to bribe them by saying “We’re going waterskiing”
on a Sunday afternoon, and they loved this, but they would say they wanted to go to the meetings.

Obviously, the Lord knows your heart, and He changes you and He reversed the situation throwing all my anger back at me.
As much as I hated what they were doing, I wasn’t going to take any notice of what they were saying to me.
In the end, I had no peace and the anger I had for Christians was just eating away at me.
I knew that I was dealing with this power that was a lot stronger than me.

Eventually, I decided to put these Bible things to the test and was baptised and received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.
I changed from a hater and non-believer to a believer instantly.
The Lord has healed me and taken away the bad things in my life and has given me eternal life.
I look back and think where would I be if I hadn’t come to know the Lord.

Now He has given me compassion in my marriage, and everything in life; I’m still a work in progress.
I thank the Lord for calling me and His persistence and patience and pray that I will be worthy on that day when the Lord returns.
MARK  ADELAIDE, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

 

[garee]

TESTIMONY - from Mark who lives in South Australia and is part of
The Revival Fellowship here in Adelaide

THE LORD KNOWS YOUR HEART, AND HE CHANGES YOU
I did not know a god, or experience any proof that there was one, and didn’t want to know one.
I had a particular dislike for Christians to say the least. I smoked 60 cigarettes a day and drank until I dropped
and with that came fighting, etc.
I was not a nice person.

My wife came to know the Lord and I was not happy.
I spent three and a half years trying to get her out of this crazy Christian group which I had no knowledge of
and didn’t want to know.
I tried everything in the book, I wasn’t at all nice, and I treated her like dirt but the more I tried the stronger she became.
The children went to the meetings too, and received the Holy Spirit and I would try to bribe them by saying “We’re going waterskiing”
on a Sunday afternoon, and they loved this, but they would say they wanted to go to the meetings.

Obviously, the Lord knows your heart, and He changes you and He reversed the situation throwing all my anger back at me.
As much as I hated what they were doing, I wasn’t going to take any notice of what they were saying to me.
In the end, I had no peace and the anger I had for Christians was just eating away at me.
I knew that I was dealing with this power that was a lot stronger than me.

Eventually, I decided to put these Bible things to the test and was baptised and received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.
I changed from a hater and non-believer to a believer instantly.
The Lord has healed me and taken away the bad things in my life and has given me eternal life.
I look back and think where would I be if I hadn’t come to know the Lord.

Now He has given me compassion in my marriage, and everything in life; I’m still a work in progress.
I thank the Lord for calling me and His persistence and patience and pray that I will be worthy on that day when the Lord returns.
MARK  ADELAIDE, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Not a salvation issue...

Experience is not the valuator of God's unseen truths... the bible alone as it is written, is .Why go above that which is written ?

Tongues is speaking prophecy the word of God in other languages other than Hebrew alone. God is no longer bring any new prophecy .that posibillty is sealed up till the end of time under the Sun.

Today they have machines that in real time can give the speaker the ability to converse with another and vice versa translate the other unknown language so they can understand each other, No barbarism between the both .Both receive a new revelation from God . It why more tongues was accredited to Paul he was in places where the understanding of both was needed to convey the gospel both mutual edifying God not seen .(no self edification)


1 Therefore if I (Paul) know not the meaning of the voice(of the one Paul is bring the gospel to), I (Paul) shall be unto him that speaketh (prophecy) a barbarian, and he (in whom Paul is brining the gospel) that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me (Paul).

Its takes two people to have a conversation. God moved both as a spiritual (not seen) gift .

 

[shrume]

Tongues is speaking prophecy the word of God in other languages other than Hebrew alone.

No matter how many times you say it, the manifestation of speaking in tongues never has been, is not, and never will be, prophecy.

 

[Dino246]

Tell that to the "God is the same today, tomorrow and yesterday" ilk. They see the miraculous under every rock.

I have little issue with people who eagerly anticipate God's handiwork in the miraculous. That is not the same as "seeking a sign".