Speaking in tongues

[7seasrekeyed]

It would seem you are putting the horse before the cart or turning things upside down . Cause and effect. Because they were filled with the Holy Spirit they began to speak in other languages to one another . A Christian is filled with the Holy Spirit as a result of their new birth and by that new spirit of faith they can believe God fully .

the Holy Spirit SEALS a believer when they are saved

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13

the NT does record a 2nd infilling that is not what happens when you are saved

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I would suggest as to the law of God .The whole bible is a perfect law not one word comes from a philosophical theory of men as a private interpretation .

Sorry I missed what you posted. Tongues is a sign to those who believe not, its seem clear according to that law . Prophecy provides no outward sign to confirm a person is filled with the Holy Spirit .

The verses I posted from Isaiah 28 are needed as the foundation of that law. Its there we can see the purpose of God bringing new revelation as prophecy in other languages other than Hebrew alone. (God mocking those who mock prophecy . trying to making it to no effect by the oral traditions of men .

Where do you find people asking to be filled with the Holy Spirit as if we were not filled when we first believed?

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

What does the phrase "filled with the Spirit" mean? Can it be fuller that Christ working in us to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness? Is the treasure we have in these bodies of death half full?

ok..well you said in the post I responded to that 'The law pertaining to Tonges is still the same '

when you say THE law, you are being specific. you are saying there is A law that pertains to tongues

since I never heard of such a thing, I come along and ask you what law it is that you are referring to

you say that law, that specific law referring to tongues, is now the law of God

garee...the entire Bible is not the law of God. and there is NO LAW pertaining to tongues

see, it is these kinds of answers that are getting people frustrated with you

I'm not frustrated. but.....I am puzzled and I still say you are lumping verses together that not only do not refer to tongues, but are not even close cousins (that is they have nothing to do with each other in the sense you are using them either)

I'm going to leave off responding to your circular reasonings with regards to tongues at least for awhile

no worries being late....I wasn't home anyway

 

[7seasrekeyed]

It is a sign that believers have been filled with the Holy Spirit.

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Act 2:4 KJV)

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, (Act 10:44-46 KJV)

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Act 19:6

uh...that is not what I was asking garee

while I have your attention though, )) where does scripture say that tongues are a sign that believers have been filled with the Holy Spirit?

the sign of tongues was / is for unbelievers...find it in Paul's teachings

they serve a different purpose in a body of believers

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Yet Paul tells the Corinthians that God chose the foolishness of preaching to bring souls to Christ. Preaching not tongues, miracles or healings. Preaching the word of God the gospel of Christ which is the power to bring men to salvation.

1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

the foolishness of God is the cross...not preaching

18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
I Corinthians 1

you've got the right verses there

You made this comment: "Jews see unknown languages as a sign of impending judgment from Jehovah God." My point is that Corinth was not a Jewish city. Paul wrote 1 Corinthians to the Church at Corinth. The recipients were not primarily, or even largely, Jewish. Corinth was a cosmopolitan city, with people of many ethnic and cultural backgrounds.

right

and Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles...not the Jews

and on it goes Zzzzzzz

 

[notuptome]

the foolishness of God is the cross...not preaching

18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
I Corinthians 1

you've got the right verses there



right

and Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles...not the Jews

and on it goes Zzzzzzz

Never mind the fact that Paul went to the Jews first as it was his custom then when the Jews rejected him he went to the Gentiles.

And so it goes.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[yellowcanary]

Hypocrite.
DJ2 and others are always demanding real tangible evidence that tongues are genuine, and that miracles still
occur today. When confronted with testimonies to such they refuse to accept this evidence and claim it to be
lies, spurious, imaginary or Satanic.

NO it is unbelievers who need to prove that miracles, signs and healings no longer are available today.
For millions who experience all of these prove you lot wrong.

The older I get, the more inclined I am to reserve my pity for those most deserving of it. I'm going to make an exception in your case.

 

[garee]

YES - Jesus himself provides the means to do so …

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick,
and they shall recover.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following.
Amen. Mark 16:

4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1Corinthians 2:

Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum,
I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. Romans 15:9

God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with diverse miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his
own will? Hebrews 2:4

Still happening today. Has been for the last 140 years (since the 1880s) when the latter day Pentecostal revivals came out from
the "divine healing" movement of the time …

Revivals? What was revived... a new oral tradition of men ? Is it not every time one get slain in the spirit they are revived ? Is it a daily revival that replaces the daily bread?

Never has happened no such thing a s a "sign gift"to confirm anything .we walk by faith the unsen eternal not by sight after the temporal You will not find the words sign and gift working together to creates sign gift as one thing

Jesus spoke often of those of "no faith" who refused to believe prophecy.

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Signs used as metaphors found in parables like the one you offered follow after the subject matter (the gospel ) They do not lead

What is the unseen spiritual meaning of in the parable: They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. .

What does it mean to take serpents and if they drink any poison .Other than serpents speaks of those who Christ called a brood of vipers a metaphor for false prophets and to drink their poison take in false prophecy false prophecy . WE already know God was brining new revelation in other languages other than the Hebrew alone as a sign of rebellion to those who make prophecy to no effect by the oral traditions of men .And its the gospel that raises a believed to new spirit life

Do you have any idea what it means to walk by faith, mixing faith the unseen in what God reveals or are you not concerned just make a noise... cling, clang and beleive.

Making a noise does not fill a person with the Holy Spirit but rather fills them with a lie .

The verse you offered from 1 Corinthians 2 has nothing to do with seeking after something and calling it a sign before you beleive .
The verse say that our unseen faith should not stand on the wisdom of this world as those who seek after a sign before they will commit faith

.

 

[CS1]

Hypocrite.
DJ2 and others are always demanding real tangible evidence that tongues are genuine, and that miracles still
occur today. When confronted with testimonies to such they refuse to accept this evidence and claim it to be
lies, spurious, imaginary or Satanic.

NO it is unbelievers who need to prove that miracles, signs and healings no longer are available today.
For millions who experience all of these prove you lot wrong.

This is rude please do not make comment personal .

Thank you.

 

[Dino246]

OK I see. Do you know that Paul was correcting the Corinthians on abuses of the gifts of the Holy Spirit? The cultural diversity of Corinth led to many tongues from all the mixed cultures being present in their assembly. If someone speaks in a tongue of their ethnicity and another interprets is that tongues in your opinion?

I am not at all convinced that the tongues in Corinth are the same tongues in Acts. Acts and possibly Mark lead one to see tongues as a spontaneous action accompanying salvation. An evidence that the person just got saved. It is not at all evident that the case of Corinth is at all related to the tongues in Acts.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes, I'm well aware that Paul was correcting the Corinthians on the gifts. No, that is not my opinion regarding "tongues". If it were a natural gift for learning languages, that would be the case, but it isn't, as the context clearly shows. It's a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. A person speaking in their native tongue is not a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, although a supernatural translation would be.

 

[shrume]

Tongues were at one time a witness of Gods presence byHis Holy Spirit.

They still are.

Today the power of God is revealed through His word.

And through the operation of the manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit.

This is the method God chose for His glory. If any lack confidence in the word of God they are not worthy of Him.

Do you lack confidence in this, Roger?

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

 

[Waggles]

it never was and is not now about people using or thinking tongues are a sign when they ask to be filled with the Holy Spirit
Christians are not using tongues for a sign

This is incorrect and unscriptural.
Praying in tongues is the Bible evidence of being baptized (receiving or being infilled) in the Holy Spirit.
It is a sign, evidence and confirmation of such as foretold by Jesus and shown to be true in Acts.
confirmed and explained further in the epistles.

Otherwise God is the author of confusion; and the great plethora of competing claims as to how and when people are baptized
in the Holy Spirit are all equally true.

In the beginning there was one gospel, one faith, one baptism [water and Spirit], one way.
There was unity in the body of Christ.
Now there are 20,000 versions all claiming to be equal and true.

One sign, one way, God's way.

 

[shrume]

This is incorrect and unscriptural.
Praying in tongues is the Bible evidence of being baptized (receiving or being infilled) in the Holy Spirit.
It is a sign, evidence and confirmation of such as foretold by Jesus and shown to be true in Acts.
confirmed and explained further in the epistles.

Otherwise God is the author of confusion; and the great plethora of competing claims as to how and when people are baptized
in the Holy Spirit are all equally true.

In the beginning there was one gospel, one faith, one baptism [water and Spirit], one way.
There was unity in the body of Christ.
Now there are 20,000 versions all claiming to be equal and true.

One sign, one way, God's way.

I generally agree, but how is "one baptism" water AND Spirit? That's TWO baptisms.

A person can be baptized in water and not be baptized in spirit, or baptized in spirit and not be baptized in water.

1 Cor 12:
13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[Waggles]

When the epistles in particular refer to one baptism they are describing the doctrinal fundamental teaching
that water and Holy Spirit baptisms go together - you cannot have one without the other.
Converts went under the water and were also expected to be baptized in the Holy Spirit as well (usually about
the same time) with the sign of praying in tongues to confirm such.
One baptism with two elements symbolic of the death, burial and resurrection of the old person; and being imbued with
the power of the resurrection so as to walk on in a new life.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the
kingdom of God.
John 3:5
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:38
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Ephesians 4:
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:3
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free;
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Corinthians 12:13
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Galatians 3:27
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hebrews 6:
The like figure whereunto even baptism does also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
1Peter 3:21

 

[7seasrekeyed]

This is incorrect and unscriptural.
Praying in tongues is the Bible evidence of being baptized (receiving or being infilled) in the Holy Spirit.
It is a sign, evidence and confirmation of such as foretold by Jesus and shown to be true in Acts.
confirmed and explained further in the epistles.

Otherwise God is the author of confusion; and the great plethora of competing claims as to how and when people are baptized
in the Holy Spirit are all equally true.

In the beginning there was one gospel, one faith, one baptism [water and Spirit], one way.
There was unity in the body of Christ.
Now there are 20,000 versions all claiming to be equal and true.

One sign, one way, God's way.

well isn't it nice we now have these glaring x's to show our disapproval (she said dryly)

I know what you are saying and I once believed that myself. I no longer do

for one thing, the Bible does not say that is the evidence for being filled with the Holy Spirit

Paul does not say that in his instructions...go ahead and look because you will not find it

scripture states that tongues is a sign for the unbeliever...not for a believer to decide if another believer is filled or not

this is a big stumbling block with some people and one of the main objections to those who do not speak in tongues

you seem pretty determined to be right, but you are not right because scripture does not back up what you are saying

Paul says he wishes all would speak in tongues...yet there are other gifts

in fact there are diverse tongues which is also a gift

I think some folks who are so stuck on tongues need to brush up on what scripture says because there are some things being written in these posts that are of the opinion variety and simply not in the Bible

I don't care if your church teaches what you are saying...no offense...but it is not what Paul teaches

and one other thing...your 'experience' is not proof to anyone of what you say being true...a forum is not really a place to 'prove' something happened nor is it exactly proof to get hostile and steamed because people who do not believe keep saying they do not believe

I am not Pentecostal nor am I Charismatic nor am I part of any group who thinks speaking in tongues is proof of being filled

I have heard Pastors give a message/sermon...whatever you want to call it...they do not speak in tongues but I know they are filled with the Holy Spirit by the witness in my spirit and by the response of the congregation. Flesh can get worked up, but it cannot...repeat...CANNOT...duplicate the TRUE work of the Holy Spirit which is on the inside of a person

now don't come back with an angry answer or big x on this post. I already know you will disagree

and it doesn't matter. nowhere does scripture say that if you do not speak in tongues you are not filled with the Spirit of God

period

I would actually state a person exhibiting the character of Christ, showing the love of God is exhibiting the fruit of a godly character which you CANNOT have without being filled. you can try...you can try to be real good...but the separation comes when God backs up His word, whether through a teacher..which is one of the gifts...or healing or whatever

absolutely nowhere does it say a person must speak in tongues before God will give them the gift of teaching or any other gift

tongues? well...I believe they are as empty as an old tin can without unction (you know that word, right?) of the Holy Spirit

personally, I don't pray in tongues unless I am led to and like anyone else, I can 'pray' any time I want to...but often will pray in English and know that it is the Holy Spirit praying through me because I cannot work up within myself that kind of knowledge or words or know God has heard me like I know He has when the Holy Spirit prays.

people who do not pray in tongues do not understand this, people who think tongues are what praying in the spirt is all about and only tongues will not agree and some people will agree

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I guess I should add that there are examples of people being saved and they had not prayed in tongues and when prayed for, they did speak in tongues

while this is so, I do not believe scritpure indicates this is a precedent for every person especially in light of the other gifts and Pauls instructions and the fact he says all do not speak in tongues

I am really not going to be persuaded otherwise and someone insisting I am wrong, while I know what the Bible does and does not say regarding this, is not going to move me at all

as far as I am concerned, I am always on a learning curve but you still need a foundation even for that

I don't think someone can unequivocally say what God has for another person or persons at all times just because they had a certain experience

more listening and less talking

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Never mind the fact that Paul went to the Jews first as it was his custom then when the Jews rejected him he went to the Gentiles.

And so it goes.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Roger...I am not politically correct..well neither are you, so I will just go ahead and say this

after your rendition of the Tower of Babel?

I just understand it most likely ain't gonna happen

but God knows

 

[PS]

this is where I will disagree with people in the subject of tongues

while the NT states that some received the infilling after salvation PLEASE show me where it says that speaking in tongues is a sign that a believer has been filled with the Holy Spirit

why does Paul say he wishes all would speak in tongues if everyone was speaking in tongues?

does he say anywhere that if you do not speak in tongues you are not filled?

you do not have to be speaking in tongues to be filled with the Holy Spirit

majoring in tongues creates all kinds of difficulties IMO

and by the way I speak in tongues. it is the insistence everyone must speak in tongues that is problematical IMO

I do not believe there is support for that

I'm not going to get into a debate as it seems you are not for turning as they used to say about Margaret Thatcher.

Just let me say that God, who is spirit, is omnipresent in heaven and on earth. God is known to the angels in heaven and on earth through Jesus Christ, and by His Spirit to those who believe and have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour through whom we have access to the Father, who is Spirit and is Holy i.e. the HOLY SPIRIT. To minimise the Holy Spirit, to argue against the Holy Spirit, to dispute regarding the Holy Spirit is to argue, dispute, make of no effect Father God in their lives. Do you not understand that the Holy Spirit is GOD WITH US the same as Jesus was "God with us" in the flesh. Those who speak against the Holy Spirit are speaking against God the Father himself. It is GOD who makes himself known to us through HIS spirit. In effect, these people are the enemies of God and are playing with fire.

 

[Waggles]

for one thing, the Bible does not say that is the evidence for being filled with the Holy Spirit

you are wrong on this
for example read Acts chapter 8

 

[Noose]

I generally agree, but how is "one baptism" water AND Spirit? That's TWO baptisms.

A person can be baptized in water and not be baptized in spirit, or baptized in spirit and not be baptized in water.

1 Cor 12:
13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

So, two people who practice 'true' speaking in tongues (as confirmed by them here) now disagree on what speaking in tongues is!!!
You two confirm what i have been saying all along, you have been duped.

 

[Noose]

I'm not going to get into a debate as it seems you are not for turning as they used to say about Margaret Thatcher.

Just let me say that God, who is spirit, is omnipresent in heaven and on earth. God is known to the angels in heaven and on earth through Jesus Christ, and by His Spirit to those who believe and have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour through whom we have access to the Father, who is Spirit and is Holy i.e. the HOLY SPIRIT. To minimise the Holy Spirit, to argue against the Holy Spirit, to dispute regarding the Holy Spirit is to argue, dispute, make of no effect Father God in their lives. Do you not understand that the Holy Spirit is GOD WITH US the same as Jesus was "God with us" in the flesh. Those who speak against the Holy Spirit are speaking against God the Father himself. It is GOD who makes himself known to us through HIS spirit. In effect, these people are the enemies of God and are playing with fire.

Doesn't help much, when people who practice so called 'true/real' tongues start arguing about real tongues.