Stop beating the kids! Spiritual abuse of Christians

[PeterJens]

Peter Wagner and John Wimber worked at the same college, and Wagner attended Wimber's classes. LOL Try to at least get your facts straight.

If John "studied under" anyone, it would have been the Quakers.

On the death of John Wimber this is a short summary of his influence

Wimber's Vineyard did not escape controversy. "The Vineyard sometimes let outside influences exercise undue influences within it," Synan says.
Eventually, after embracing the controversial Kansas City prophets, Wimber provided correction to their movement, which broke from the Vineyard in 1996 (CT, Oct. 7, 1996, p. 86). In similar fashion, John Arnott's Toronto Vineyard, home of the Toronto Blessing phenomenon, broke away from the Vineyard in 1995. Wimber had cautioned them not to encourage so-called exotic manifestations, including animal noises (CT, Jan. 8, 1996, p. 66).
Vineyard: Vineyard Founder Wimber Dies | Christianity Today

So I would summarise it is a confusing scene, with the environment to encourage
experimentation and denying association with the movements that spawn off the seed.

So rather than actually understanding peoples caution, you are forcing more exposure
of what this movement has created.

 

[LaurenTM]

Wimber isn't here

but Jesus is

Jens...start a thread if this is such a hot topic for you instead of taking over Ariel's thread

you get a hold of something and shake it like a terrier on a small mammal aka rat

seriously...you would not like it if people did that on your threads

I would suggest that controversy is not any indication, necessarily, of something wrong as can be witnessed by the life of Christ

So I would summarise it is a confusing scene, with the environment to encourage
experimentation and denying association with the movements that spawn off the seed.

So rather than actually understanding peoples caution, you are forcing more exposure
of what this movement has created.

I would like to point out that Willie suggested absolutely nothing with regards to what you say

YOU made a statement regarding the Vineyard with both he and myself said was false

now, you are trying to claim he is forcing exposure to the Vineyard when actually it is you who continue to do so

as long as you have it all together I am sure the rest of us feel quite safe...

Vineyard teaching is NOT WOF...so unless you go to oe and can prove otherwise, maybe you should just settle down

 

[Ariel82]

You've never really had anyone on "Ignore" if you can't resist going to see what each one of them says. LOL

My version of ignore...guards my heart. Cuz you know snowflake melt under the heat.

 

[Willie-T]

On the death of John Wimber this is a short summary of his influence

Wimber's Vineyard did not escape controversy. "The Vineyard sometimes let outside influences exercise undue influences within it," Synan says.
Eventually, after embracing the controversial Kansas City prophets, Wimber provided correction to their movement, which broke from the Vineyard in 1996 (CT, Oct. 7, 1996, p. 86). In similar fashion, John Arnott's Toronto Vineyard, home of the Toronto Blessing phenomenon, broke away from the Vineyard in 1995. Wimber had cautioned them not to encourage so-called exotic manifestations, including animal noises (CT, Jan. 8, 1996, p. 66).
Vineyard: Vineyard Founder Wimber Dies | Christianity Today

So I would summarise it is a confusing scene, with the environment to encourage
experimentation and denying association with the movements that spawn off the seed.

So rather than actually understanding peoples caution, you are forcing more exposure
of what this movement has created.

Can you actually be as thick as you sound? The very article you posted said that John ousted people when he saw that what they were doing was detrimental. I imagine one or two of the preachers in the denominations you have attended got fired for being off base 20 some years ago. Am I to conclude that you believe in what they did, just because they were in the organization you followed for awhile?

Get real.

 

[Ariel82]

I accept people as they are. Jesus taught me that.

He also taught me to not judge before it's time, God is still working on my heart and the heart and minds of all His children.

Therefore He tells me to focus on Him and His ways. his truth and not chase rabbits to skin but shine a light with the wisdom He has taught me so far.

Zone told me a prayer yesterday when we were discussing the word deceive...mm..can't quote it though.

 

[Corbinscam]

it's kind of amazing what you can learn by thread lurking And slightly disheartening lol

 

[1ofthem]

I thought of a song that I think is appropriate here. “Just a few more miles to go”…

It’d be nice if we could all get together in love and walk hand in hand. I like the part in the song where it says, people may talk about me…talk about me all you please…but if you hear me call your name it’ll be down on my knees.

So yes, I agree with what Ariel said early…the answer here is love, prayer, and forgiveness for one another…and hopefully taking our brothers and sisters by the hand and walking in love no matter if we don’t see eye to eye on everything because we are all God’s children and he wants us to love each other and help each other….

 

[Ariel82]

Your words remind me of this song

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZypKcB-w5VY

Sometimes it's hard for me to understand
Why we pull away from each other so easily
Even though we're all walking the same road
Yet we build dividing walls between our brothers and ourselves

But I, I don't care what label you may wear
If you believe in Jesus you belong with me
The bond we share is all I care to see
And we can change this world forever
If you will join with me, join and sing

Oh you're my brother, you're my sister
So take me by the hand
Together we will work until He comes
There's no foe that can defeat us
When we're walking side by side
As long as there is love we will stand

The day will come when we will be as one
And with a mighty voice together
We will proclaim that Jesus, Jesus is King
And it will echo through the earth
It will shake the nations and the world will see, see that

You're my brother, you're my sister
So take me by the hand
Together we will work until He comes
There's no foe that can defeat us
When we're walking side by side
As long as there is love we will stand

The time is here, the time is now
To take a stand, to make a vow
I won't let go, you're not alone
Now and forever we'll sing together

You're my brother, you're my sister
So take me by the hand
Together we will work until He comes
There's no foe that can defeat us
When we're walking side by side
As long as there is love we will stand

You're my brother, you're my sister
So take me by the hand
Together we will work until He comes
There's no foe that can defeat us
When we're walking side by side
As long as there is love we will stand

We will stand
We will, we will stand
We will stand

 

[1ofthem]

Your words remind me of this song

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZypKcB-w5VY

Sometimes it's hard for me to understand
Why we pull away from each other so easily
Even though we're all walking the same road
Yet we build dividing walls between our brothers and ourselves

But I, I don't care what label you may wear
If you believe in Jesus you belong with me
The bond we share is all I care to see
And we can change this world forever
If you will join with me, join and sing

Oh you're my brother, you're my sister
So take me by the hand
Together we will work until He comes
There's no foe that can defeat us
When we're walking side by side
As long as there is love we will stand

The day will come when we will be as one
And with a mighty voice together
We will proclaim that Jesus, Jesus is King
And it will echo through the earth
It will shake the nations and the world will see, see that

You're my brother, you're my sister
So take me by the hand
Together we will work until He comes
There's no foe that can defeat us
When we're walking side by side
As long as there is love we will stand

The time is here, the time is now
To take a stand, to make a vow
I won't let go, you're not alone
Now and forever we'll sing together

You're my brother, you're my sister
So take me by the hand
Together we will work until He comes
There's no foe that can defeat us
When we're walking side by side
As long as there is love we will stand

You're my brother, you're my sister
So take me by the hand
Together we will work until He comes
There's no foe that can defeat us
When we're walking side by side
As long as there is love we will stand

We will stand
We will, we will stand
We will stand

Thanks for posting the song... it has the perfect message for this thread...LOVE

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So yes, I agree with what Ariel said early…the answer here is love, prayer, and forgiveness for one another…and hopefully taking our brothers and sisters by the hand and walking in love no matter if we don’t see eye to eye on everything because we are all God’s children and he wants us to love each other and help each other….

Reminded me of these verses:

Romans 15:

5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:

6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.

 

[1ofthem]

Reminded me of these verses:

Romans 15:

5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:

6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.

I love those verses...a very encouraging message to love and accept our brothers and sisters...

 

[Stephen63]

Your words remind me of this song

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZypKcB-w5VY

Sometimes it's hard for me to understand
Why we pull away from each other so easily
Even though we're all walking the same road
Yet we build dividing walls between our brothers and ourselves

But I, I don't care what label you may wear
If you believe in Jesus you belong with me
The bond we share is all I care to see
And we can change this world forever
If you will join with me, join and sing

Oh you're my brother, you're my sister
So take me by the hand
Together we will work until He comes
There's no foe that can defeat us
When we're walking side by side
As long as there is love we will stand

The day will come when we will be as one
And with a mighty voice together
We will proclaim that Jesus, Jesus is King
And it will echo through the earth
It will shake the nations and the world will see, see that

You're my brother, you're my sister
So take me by the hand
Together we will work until He comes
There's no foe that can defeat us
When we're walking side by side
As long as there is love we will stand

The time is here, the time is now
To take a stand, to make a vow
I won't let go, you're not alone
Now and forever we'll sing together

You're my brother, you're my sister
So take me by the hand
Together we will work until He comes
There's no foe that can defeat us
When we're walking side by side
As long as there is love we will stand

You're my brother, you're my sister
So take me by the hand
Together we will work until He comes
There's no foe that can defeat us
When we're walking side by side
As long as there is love we will stand

We will stand
We will, we will stand
We will stand

Russ Taff was one of my all time favorite singers, esp. when he was lead singer for The Imperials. I found out later on that just before he left that group he was on drugs & spiraling outta control. Needless to say, that hurt. I think it was then when I started taking another look at the church, this time with my eyes open.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I love those verses...a very encouraging message to love and accept our brothers and sisters...

Yes. And an added bonus --- we glorify God.

 

[Ariel82]

Russ Taff was one of my all time favorite singers, esp. when he was lead singer for The Imperials. I found out later on that just before he left that group he was on drugs & spiraling outta control. Needless to say, that hurt. I think it was then when I started taking another look at the church, this time with my eyes open.

You got sources for that slander?

Bio

http://www.russtaff.com/bio/

 

[PeterJens]

Can you actually be as thick as you sound?

Thank you for your contribution, and God bless you. You do not understand any of
the points I am sharing, but that is not the point. You are unlikely to, as you agree
with the general theological and practical approach of these fellowships.

 

[Ariel82]

Now I guess I will research the Vineyard and this guy....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XHdaxc3VIJI

He has a lot of sermons..wow.

 

[royalscot]

Not feeding the children sound doctrine is the most criminal of abuse toward babies in the Lord. Give them the sincere milk of the word of God that they might grow thereby.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

if you want to look passed, what has already been said.
and return to what is milk and what is solid food.

when did he give the 10 commandment, other that to a jewish people.

so who is the a copy cat , and who is living under an old covenant , without having any way out. because of falsehood or wrong interpretation of scripture.

for the truth of christ,
royalscot .

 

[JIMBO43]

Child abuse triggers | Pannone



I believe that Satan has placed his demon posssessed minions among the church that abuse young Christians so that they have "triggers" that cause them remember the abuse and do a 180 whenever they hear a word or phrase.

His purpose is to divide and isolate people so that they can't be a fully functional parts of the True body of Christ. He uses this tactic to make people avoid churches because of their past negative experiences.

How do you recognize the wolves? The Bible tells us. (will post scriptures when I get a chance)

How do you heal from the abuse or help others heal?

I am not sure. Perhaps you could tell me. I only know God healed me through prayer and love of true born again believers.

I thought if we looked at how physical, emotional and mental abused survivors recover, might help us learn how we might help those who are spiritually abused also.

The biggest hatred of them all is the hate you suffer hating those who have abused you both mentally and i dread to say the other type of abuse its one thing to make a child do things against ther will its another to make them fall its so sickening and utterly demoralising.

This is work of evil in our world that must be arradicated if humanity has any chance of spiritual stature of the most deserving stature of all and that is a key to the universe.

One i dont see being given away to easily i wander quite often if that door can be unlocked like a bridge between asyria and Egypt.

Sin can be Arradicated But sadly that day wont come untill the Mind is unlocked in such a fashion that all your memories are video broadcasted from your mind to a tv.

Then theres no way to hide and i believe that day is close but then with it comes extreme caution where theres an unlocking of the mind theres also the abillity to plant false memories.

What a wonderful bit of hope that may be for a lot of people that one day computer technolagies will be able to take a away unwanted memories.

But then sadly this would get taking adavntage of so maybe that day is never coming And the only hope we have is in God coming down and stamp his foot down and saying enough is enough.

Im sure we have all said that expression once to many times I only hope that with mind technoligy comes unique blue print in the sence that you filter out but not in.

 

[Ariel82]

Wow...does anyone on this forum ever bury the bone?

 

[Ariel82]

I don't think most people want to broadcast their thoughts for the world to see...an endless Twitter feed. Sounds like hell on Earth to me.