Suicide Unpardonable ? or RCC Nonsense?
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Of course people who think about/commit suicide, is about unending pain. Whether it is physical, mental or emotional pain. Others here have been in excruciating pain from one health issue or another, but some of the physical pain I have been in for the last few years, some people wouldn't have been able to endure. I pray you never feel the pain of sciatica and a herniated disk. It is beyond agonizing. I was in bed 24-7 with it for nearly 5 months. And I was alone, and scared and begging God to take this horrible pain away. I'll admit that more than once, I thought about how many of my Dilaudid I would have to take to finish me off. I was in that much agonizing pain, that my mind went there, even though I knew that the pain wouldn't last forever. When you're in agony, you just want it to end. Right then and there. You want the pain gone by any means possible. I truly believe that people who are in that much agony, are NOT in their sane mind at that point. The pain clouds their judgement.
My condolences to you on your mom, but given her circumstances, maybe it would have been better to let the painkillers do their job, even if she did die from them. At least she would (hopefully) have been a bit more comfortable in her last hours. I do understand her mindset, I've had cancer myself, and MY mind went there. But pain is temporary, whether it's in this life, or passing on to God's kingdom.
To all the grace-filled legalist out there who are condemning those who have committed suicide.
It is odd how on the one had, we who believe we should obey God, with understanding, and are saved by grace are legalists.
Then you come online to tell which sinners you choose that they are sinning something unpardonable. You even go so far as to say God hates some of them. God does not hate anyone, but He does hate sin, and He goes to the bother to separate all sinners from their sin.
It would be good to hear His children do the same, overlooing any sins and blessing the individuals.
That is ok.........the Day comes, and that right soon, when Jesus will come with His winnowing fork and separate the tares from the wheat.
It is odd how on the one had, we who believe we should obey God, with understanding, and are saved by grace are legalists.
Then you come online to tell which sinners you choose that they are sinning something unpardonable. You even go so far as to say God hates some of them. God does not hate anyone, but He does hate sin, and He goes to the bother to separate all sinners from their sin.
It would be good to hear His children do the same, overlooing any sins and blessing the individuals.
That is ok.........the Day comes, and that right soon, when Jesus will come with His winnowing fork and separate the tares from the wheat.
Hi Mec99,
It might, indeed, be RCC nonsense. But before we conclude that, maybe we should make sure that the Catholic Church actually teaches that.
So I'd like to ask you the same question that I've asked several other people in this thread. I am still looking for an answer.
Can you tell me where the Catholic Church teaches that people who commit suicide go to hell?
If you can, I would like to know where that is.
If you can't, we might be better off concluding that "Oops, I guess the Catholic Church doesn't really teach that after all and we have been misinformed."
Thanks.
Peace.
It might, indeed, be RCC nonsense. But before we conclude that, maybe we should make sure that the Catholic Church actually teaches that.
So I'd like to ask you the same question that I've asked several other people in this thread. I am still looking for an answer.
Can you tell me where the Catholic Church teaches that people who commit suicide go to hell?
If you can, I would like to know where that is.
If you can't, we might be better off concluding that "Oops, I guess the Catholic Church doesn't really teach that after all and we have been misinformed."
Thanks.
Peace.
A family member of mine went through cancer. The last thing in the world I would've done was to say "give up hope, take these pills" and then go and proceed to write them off as a coward and all others of the like, that's narrow minded and sick.
It's God's decision when we go and if someone falls short of that, it's not for us to judge but extend as much empathy and understanding as we can.
It's God's decision when we go and if someone falls short of that, it's not for us to judge but extend as much empathy and understanding as we can.
Can you Bestil_Andno show us Scriptures where God says Mary was born without sin?
Before you waste your time and my time, being full of Grace is not the same as being without sin.
Can you show me where in the Scriptures did God say Mary was assumed into Heaven?
Quoting scriptures showing others were taken up does not prove Mary was also taken up.
Can you show me where in Scriptures that say Mary is sitting at the right hand of God?
The answer to all these questions is no, you cannot.
Will you ever accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior? Or will you continue in your sins of Worshiping Mary as your God?
The choice is yours to make Bestil_Andno. Accept God, reject Mary, and enter into Heaven with me or reject God and Worship Mary as your God and spend Eternity in the Lake of Fire, which by the way is what the Catholics call Purgatory.
Before you waste your time and my time, being full of Grace is not the same as being without sin.
Can you show me where in the Scriptures did God say Mary was assumed into Heaven?
Quoting scriptures showing others were taken up does not prove Mary was also taken up.
Can you show me where in Scriptures that say Mary is sitting at the right hand of God?
The answer to all these questions is no, you cannot.
Will you ever accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior? Or will you continue in your sins of Worshiping Mary as your God?
The choice is yours to make Bestil_Andno. Accept God, reject Mary, and enter into Heaven with me or reject God and Worship Mary as your God and spend Eternity in the Lake of Fire, which by the way is what the Catholics call Purgatory.
Seriously, Vdp?
Look at the title of this thread. Reread the original post.
A claim has been made that the Catholic Church teaches that people who commit suicide go to hell.
My question is quite simple.
Can you please show me where the Catholic Church teaches that?
I don't want to just believe that that claim is true because someone said so. But I might believe that if someone can give some evidence for it.
p.s. We don't need to talk about Mary for that.
Peace.
Look at the title of this thread. Reread the original post.
A claim has been made that the Catholic Church teaches that people who commit suicide go to hell.
My question is quite simple.
Can you please show me where the Catholic Church teaches that?
I don't want to just believe that that claim is true because someone said so. But I might believe that if someone can give some evidence for it.
p.s. We don't need to talk about Mary for that.
Peace.
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He could very likely be repeating what he has heard in the past..... I have heard the same thing. I have not really cared enough to research it, however.
I also heard, from MANY people that the Baptist church will not "let" you take communion if you are not a member of their church, and I was guilty of repeating that to others for a lot of years... I finally called an associate pastor at one of the larger Baptist churches here in the metroplex and asked him. He said it was categorically untrue.
So, there are many untruths and half-truths being bandied about, and we should be careful to find out for ourselves what is true, and what isn't...
mea culpa...
I also heard, from MANY people that the Baptist church will not "let" you take communion if you are not a member of their church, and I was guilty of repeating that to others for a lot of years... I finally called an associate pastor at one of the larger Baptist churches here in the metroplex and asked him. He said it was categorically untrue.
So, there are many untruths and half-truths being bandied about, and we should be careful to find out for ourselves what is true, and what isn't...
mea culpa...
But you do need to understand and accept Bestil_Andno that the Catholic Church has deceived you into believing lies from Satan.
Does the Catholic Church teach we can lose our Salvation by committing a Mortal sin? Yes or no is all i'm looking for.
Did you know Praying to Mary is a Mortal sin?
Do you believe if one loses their Salvation they cannot enter into Heaven? Yes or no is all i'm looking for.
Is Suicide murder? Yes or no is all i'm looking for.
Therefore if suicide is murder and murder is a Mortal sin and we lose our Salvation by committing a Mortal sin we then do end up in Hell for it!
There is also another verse you really need to read and understand.
Galatians 1:6-9
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; [SUP]7 [/SUP]which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! [SUP]9 [/SUP]As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
Beware that you are teaching a different gospel.
Does the Catholic Church teach we can lose our Salvation by committing a Mortal sin? Yes or no is all i'm looking for.
Did you know Praying to Mary is a Mortal sin?
Do you believe if one loses their Salvation they cannot enter into Heaven? Yes or no is all i'm looking for.
Is Suicide murder? Yes or no is all i'm looking for.
Therefore if suicide is murder and murder is a Mortal sin and we lose our Salvation by committing a Mortal sin we then do end up in Hell for it!
There is also another verse you really need to read and understand.
Galatians 1:6-9
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; [SUP]7 [/SUP]which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! [SUP]9 [/SUP]As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
Beware that you are teaching a different gospel.
Hornetguy, i do not repeat what someone has told me. I ACTUALLY was born and raised in the Catholic Church. I spent 20 years in the Catholic Church.
God called me out of the Catholic Church when i was 20 years old. I have actually studied the Scriptures hornetguy. Have you?
We need to study the Scriptures to be able to spot the false prophets, like the Catholics, who are among us.
God called me out of the Catholic Church when i was 20 years old. I have actually studied the Scriptures hornetguy. Have you?
We need to study the Scriptures to be able to spot the false prophets, like the Catholics, who are among us.
Hi hornetguy,
I agree with you completely. That's also why I think we should be careful about making statements unless we know they are true. Otherwise, people could be misled into thinking something is true...when it really isn't.
I think it can also sortof lessen a person's credibility. I mean, if I say something that is untrue.... well, how many other things that I think/say are also untrue? Everyone makes mistakes, of course, but I think there is a difference between owning up to a mistake (Gosh, I guess I was misinformed about that...my bad.) and just sticking with the untruth anyways.
Peace to you.
I agree with you completely. That's also why I think we should be careful about making statements unless we know they are true. Otherwise, people could be misled into thinking something is true...when it really isn't.
I think it can also sortof lessen a person's credibility. I mean, if I say something that is untrue.... well, how many other things that I think/say are also untrue? Everyone makes mistakes, of course, but I think there is a difference between owning up to a mistake (Gosh, I guess I was misinformed about that...my bad.) and just sticking with the untruth anyways.
Peace to you.
Dear Vdp,
None of what you said answers my question: Where does the Catholic Church teach that a person who commits suicide goes to hell? (That is the topic of this thread, by the way.)
Your logic here:
"Therefore if suicide is murder and murder is a Mortal sin and we lose our Salvation by committing a Mortal sin we then do end up in Hell for it!"
....Is just that....your logic.
That is not what the Catholic Church teaches. You do not seem to really be aware of what the Church does teach. So here is some info from the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the subject:
"Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to Him alone God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance." (CCC paragraphs 2282-2283).
That sure sounds a lot different than "if someone commits suicide they go to hell" as was claimed in this thread.
By the way, your lack of understanding of what the Church actually teaches with this subject could make someone wonder about your understanding of what the Catholic Church actually teaches with other subjects as well.
God Bless.
None of what you said answers my question: Where does the Catholic Church teach that a person who commits suicide goes to hell? (That is the topic of this thread, by the way.)
Your logic here:
"Therefore if suicide is murder and murder is a Mortal sin and we lose our Salvation by committing a Mortal sin we then do end up in Hell for it!"
....Is just that....your logic.
That is not what the Catholic Church teaches. You do not seem to really be aware of what the Church does teach. So here is some info from the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the subject:
"Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to Him alone God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance." (CCC paragraphs 2282-2283).
That sure sounds a lot different than "if someone commits suicide they go to hell" as was claimed in this thread.
By the way, your lack of understanding of what the Church actually teaches with this subject could make someone wonder about your understanding of what the Catholic Church actually teaches with other subjects as well.
God Bless.