I used to believe it led to hell, but don't anymore. Have not believed that for a while now.
Tough subject.
Tough subject.
Suicide Unpardonable ? or RCC Nonsense?
- Thread starter Monnkai
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I don't come here as much as I used to because so many verses are taken out of context. And add to that the (minority) verses that are open to different interpretations, and you have a real quagmire sometimes in just trying to discuss things things from the same perspective.
you didn't give a reference, but let's look at the context of that snippet you allude to -- because if we do, i hope you'll see that you are mishandling it.
Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.
(1 Corinthians 3:16-17)
(1 Corinthians 3:16-17)
here, in the greater context, Paul is addressing a problem in the church at Corinth, whereby people are segregating into groups saying 'i am of Apollos' or 'i am of Paul' et cetera --- as though forming schisms in the body. ((see verses 1 through 9 of the chapter))
but in the specific context, he is not saying that if anyone destroys the body of an individual, God will destroy them.
he is saying this about the body of Christ, corporately. look again, please:
Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.
(1 Corinthians 3:16-17)
(1 Corinthians 3:16-17)
this is a warning for those who would destroy the unity of the Wife of the Lamb.
not against anyone who does unhealthy things.
the Kingdom is not flesh and blood.
it is spirit.
aww, don't stay away. we love you!! ♥
no problem was ever addressed by ignoring it, you know
if you recognize this behavior, we need your help in correcting it!!
((but don't expect, and so become discouraged, that everyone will heed such rebuke; there must be such division in us in order to make it plain who is really of us, and who is not ((re: 1 Corinthians 11:9)), and having been shown the truth, and continuing to reject it, some are simply having God's condemnation of them justified through what He does in us))
also welcome back
And I understand what both of you are saying.... but what I'm trying to get across is that becoming a Christian, with all that entails, does not "cure" us from physical or mental illnesses... if we are truly saved, but die of a heart attack from a bad previous lifestyle, or from a genetic disorder, we are no more at fault than if we take our own life, due to a mental/emotional illness.
I also understand the confusion as to "how" any Christian could drift that far away from the love of Christ... but we are looking at it as relatively healthy (mentally) people. Suicide DOESN'T make sense to someone who is not mentally "off"... we cannot see it.
It's much like an alcoholic who becomes a Christian.... they have repented, but they will ALWAYS be one drink away from disaster/failure/sin. If that alcoholic slips, and gets drunk, but comes back and starts over, have they lost their salvation? Or, were they simply human, and in their human weakness, messed up?
The big difference is that in the case of mental illness and suicide, the "slip" is a more permanent one, physically speaking. But it's no different, spiritually speaking. In my opinion, of course...
1Co 6:19 Or know ye not that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have from God? and ye are not your own;
1Co 6:20 for ye were bought with a price: glorify God therefore in your body.
This is not directly from Christ's Mouth, but it is in the sense it is supposed to have been inspired by Him. So in the latter sense, you are correct.
God bless you, always.
1Co 6:20 for ye were bought with a price: glorify God therefore in your body.
This is not directly from Christ's Mouth, but it is in the sense it is supposed to have been inspired by Him. So in the latter sense, you are correct.
God bless you, always.
Trying to use that scripture to say we should do nothing that harms our physical body is pretty far out of context.. that whole passage is talking about sexual impurity and immorality. Not smoking, drinking, drugs, suicide....
What? I am just sharing the scripture to show where it is in the Word. I am not supporting anything you are saying here. I do not believe suicide is an unforgiveable sin, nor will I ever, wpexcially when it is the product of a broken heart.
i think he's responding to RBA238 . .
. . who mashed up two things Paul said in two different epistles ((and possibly one thing Christ actually did say in a third book)), mistakenly attributing them as one thing Christ said, and tried to use this misquoted mashup in a way that ((IMHO)) neither of their contexts justifies.
hey @RBA238, when you want to cite a scriptural reference, it's a good idea to actually look it up and quote it, and read at least 5 or ten verses above and below it too, so that you know you're not using it out of context, misquoting it and/or attributing it to the wrong speaker.
because it's something other people reading your comments will certainly do, and correct you if you are misquoting or mishandling.
this is the internet, where information is just a few seconds and a few keystrokes away, and there are a lot of Biblically literate people on this forum.
it's not a place where you can get away with saying things vaguely scriptural, where people with only a passing knowledge of the Bible will generally believe you as long as you use some semblance of victorian english when you say it.
i love that about CC, by the way
neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
(1 Corinthians 11:9)
LOL
um, "obviously"
this should have read 11:19, not 11:9
((oops!))
No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval.
(1 Corinthians 11:19)
(1 Corinthians 11:19)
W
wwjd_kilden
Guest
I don't know what a US liberal stands for, but I am pretty sure Jesus was a "liberal" in his society
1 John 1:7
[SUP]7 [/SUP]but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
A sin is a sin is a sin. There is no difference between the sin of lying and the sin of rejecting Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
Jesus died on the Cross and His Blood cleansed us of ALL our sins, past, present, and future sins.
Ephesians 2:8
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved
Its by the Grace from God that has Saved us. We do not receive Salvation by any works we do nor do we lose our Salvation by any sin we commit.
If we walk in the Light the Blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sins. Jesus is the Light we walk in. Salvation has been received by Grace not by works. Therefore if a person commit suicide he still will enter into Heaven. He cannot lose his Salvation because the Blood of Jesus has already cleansed him of this sin. AND he cannot lose his Salvation because he receive it by the Grace of God. It does not matter what the state of his mind is at the time. But this person does need to receive his Salvation first before he commits suicide.
Not everyone who says 'Lord,Lord' has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior. A very good example are the Catholics. Since they teach and believe Salvation is received by Baptism and they practice Baptizing their babies, they believe they have already received their Salvation by their Baptism. Which means they never feel the need to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior later in their life. This is why none of the Catholics will ever enter into Heaven.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
A sin is a sin is a sin. There is no difference between the sin of lying and the sin of rejecting Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
Jesus died on the Cross and His Blood cleansed us of ALL our sins, past, present, and future sins.
Ephesians 2:8
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved
Its by the Grace from God that has Saved us. We do not receive Salvation by any works we do nor do we lose our Salvation by any sin we commit.
If we walk in the Light the Blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sins. Jesus is the Light we walk in. Salvation has been received by Grace not by works. Therefore if a person commit suicide he still will enter into Heaven. He cannot lose his Salvation because the Blood of Jesus has already cleansed him of this sin. AND he cannot lose his Salvation because he receive it by the Grace of God. It does not matter what the state of his mind is at the time. But this person does need to receive his Salvation first before he commits suicide.
Not everyone who says 'Lord,Lord' has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior. A very good example are the Catholics. Since they teach and believe Salvation is received by Baptism and they practice Baptizing their babies, they believe they have already received their Salvation by their Baptism. Which means they never feel the need to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior later in their life. This is why none of the Catholics will ever enter into Heaven.
Mostly its RCC nonsense. Why would anyone ever listen to the lies of the Catholics?
The only Unpardonable sin is the sin of rejecting the Holy Spirit. Its the Holy Spirit who brings to us the Grace of God for our Salvation. Therefore if you reject the Holy Spirit, you are rejecting your Salvation.
Salvation is not earned by our works and cannot be lost by our works like the World teaches.
All of our sins have been cleansed by the Blood of Jesus. Therefore if we do commit suicide we have already been forgiven for that sin even before we have committed that sin!
The only Unpardonable sin is the sin of rejecting the Holy Spirit. Its the Holy Spirit who brings to us the Grace of God for our Salvation. Therefore if you reject the Holy Spirit, you are rejecting your Salvation.
Salvation is not earned by our works and cannot be lost by our works like the World teaches.
All of our sins have been cleansed by the Blood of Jesus. Therefore if we do commit suicide we have already been forgiven for that sin even before we have committed that sin!
R
RBA238
Guest
Soooo, you beleived a person can just end it all and still be saved? Your kidding right?!! The Bible plainly tells us "Without FAITH, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD". And in another verse clearly says "He, THAT ENDURES UNTIL THE END, SHALL BE SAVED". *Faith*
It is a difficult world we live in. To many things that are not good are seen. And those who have become hardened by the world appear to be the ones better off than those whose hearts are troubled and hurt and can't make sense and can't understand how to navigate in this wartime of a world
My heart goes out to every person from young to old who just can't take these things and think to themselves leaving is better than staying
The Lord told us we would have trouble in this world And the cloud of witnesses in Heaven whom you've heard of but can't see are there just as The Lord is always there and never leaves us, they are all watching and quietly urging us to press on and to persevere by Hope directed in all the words and promises of God
Our tears are in heaven
He hears and He listens.
All I can say to those who are suffering in these things is that there is a better..The best Day planned for those who love Him and that what HE began in us HE will bring to completion
Don't doubt HIS LOVE...
.pray...
ask daily for HIS BREAD...
(For the evil of the day is sufficient yet thankfully HIS BREAD/HIS GRACE us all the more sufficient!
Therefore "whatever is lovely" think in these things and the peace of GOD which surpasses and will ever and always surpass our understanding will guard our hearts and our minds in Christ Jesus
God keep you in His tender mercies
My heart goes out to every person from young to old who just can't take these things and think to themselves leaving is better than staying
The Lord told us we would have trouble in this world And the cloud of witnesses in Heaven whom you've heard of but can't see are there just as The Lord is always there and never leaves us, they are all watching and quietly urging us to press on and to persevere by Hope directed in all the words and promises of God
Our tears are in heaven
He hears and He listens.
All I can say to those who are suffering in these things is that there is a better..The best Day planned for those who love Him and that what HE began in us HE will bring to completion
Don't doubt HIS LOVE...
.pray...
ask daily for HIS BREAD...
(For the evil of the day is sufficient yet thankfully HIS BREAD/HIS GRACE us all the more sufficient!
Therefore "whatever is lovely" think in these things and the peace of GOD which surpasses and will ever and always surpass our understanding will guard our hearts and our minds in Christ Jesus
God keep you in His tender mercies
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U.S. liberals are the antithesis of Jesus Christ. They stand for totalitarian mind control, infanticide, lawlessness, hypocrisy and are anti-Christian. On another note, when Jesus walked the Earth He demonstrated Himself as a conservative.