Sunday - the first day of the week

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#81
THE ASSERTION BY SABBATARIANS THAT AT THE COUNCIL OF LAODICEA THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH changed the Sabbath from the Seventh day to the First day is not true. The Sabbath was not changed at that Council.

What did take place at that Council was an anti-semetic (sic) move to make it illegal for a Christian to worship on Saturday. But one needs to note that there were thousands of Christians already worshiping on Sunday, the first day of the week. Many in the early Church worshipped on Sunday:

"Anti-Judaism played its part in second-century Christian polemic against Jewish Sabbath observance, but it does not follow that it motivated the introduction of Christian Sunday worship. For we have already argued that Sunday worship dates back to the first century, while few second-century writers compare and contrast the Jewish Sabbath and the Christian Sunday.

Derogatory discussions of the Jewish Sabbath do not usually refer to the Christian Sunday. If Sunday were a recent substitute for the Jewish Sabbath, we should expect far more discussion of the superiority of Sunday to the Sabbath." R. J. Bauckham, From Sabbath to Lord's Day, p. 271, edited by D.A. Carson.

The Sabbath & Sunday
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#82
EVIDENCE THAT THE EARLY CHURCH WORSHIPPED ON SUNDAY FROM THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS

THE EPISTLE OF BARNABAS about A.D. 100 - "Wherefore, also we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead."

THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS - A.D. 107 - "Be not deceived with strange doctrines, nor with old fables, which are unprofitable. For if we still live according to the Jewish Law, we acknowledge that we have not received grace....If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and By His death."

THE WRITINGS OF JUSTIN MARTYR: A.D. 145-150 - "And on the day called Sunday all who live in cities or in the country gather together in one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read....But Sunday is the day on which we all hold a common assembly, because it is the first day of the week on which God...made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead."

APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTIONS: Church life in the 2nd Century: - "On the day of the resurrection of the Lord--that is, the Lord's Day--assemble yourself together without fail, giving thanks to God and praising Him for those mercies God has bestowed upon you through Christ."

IRENAEUS: A.D. 155-202 - "The Mystery of the Lord's Resurrection may not be celebrated on any other day than the Lord's Day, and on this alone should we observe the breaking off of the Paschal Feast."

The Sabbath & Sunday
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#83
WHO CHANGED THE SABBATH FROM SATURDAY TO SUNDAY? WAS IT THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH?

"Often the question is asked, "Isn't it paying homage to the Roman Catholic church to worship on Sunday because didn't Constantine change the day of worship?"

It is claimed that Constantine's edict of March 7, 321 changed the day. Constantine's edict reads:

"On the venerable Day of The Sun [venerablili dei Solis] let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits Codex Justinianus, book 3, title 12,3, trans. in Schaff, History of the Christian Church 5th ed. (New York: Charles Scribner, 1902), vol. 3, p. 380, note 1.

PLINY'S LETTER, AD 107

Pliny was governor of Bithynia, in Asia Minor, from AD 106-108. He wrote in AD 107 to Trajan, the emperor, concerning the Christians. This is what he said:

They were wont to meet together, on a stated day before it was light, and sing among themselves alternately a hymn to Christ as God....When these things were performed, it was their custom to separate and then to come together again to a meal which they ate in common without any disorder."

We know the day the early church broke bread on was Sunday. "Upon the first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread" Acts 20:7.

IN AD 120 THE EPISTLE OF BARNABAS says in chapter 2:

"Incense is a vain abomination unto me, and your new moons and Sabbaths I cannot endure. He has, therefore, abolished these things.

When he speaks of the first day of the week, Barnabas says: "Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day, also, on which Jesusrose again from the dead" Chapter 25.

JUSTIN MARTYR (140 AD)

Justin's 'Apology' was written at Rome about the year 140, only 44 years after the apostle John received the vision of The Revelation at Patmos.

The Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge says this about Justin's works:

"In these works Justin professes to present the system of doctrine held by all Christians and seeks to be orthodox on all points. The only difference he knows of as existing between Christians concerned the millennium. Thus Justin is an incontrovertible witness for the unity of the faith in the Church of his day, and the fact that the Gentile type of Christianity prevailed." Quoted by Canright in The Compete Testimony of the Early Fathers, Fleming H. Revell, 1916, pp. 24-25.

NOTE: At this early date, AD 140, the only major difference among Christians was concerning the millennium. At that time they had no disagreement in keeping Sunday, and as you will see, Justin says that was the day on which all Christians worshipped.

In chapter 67 of his first Apology, entitled, "Weekly Worship of the Christians,"writing to the pagan emperor, Justin states:

"...we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought...But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought the change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead."The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 1, pp. 185-186 (emphasis added).

DIONYSIUS, BISHOP OF CORINTH IN GREECE, (AD 170)

Dionysius was Bishop of Corinth, the Church which Paul raised up and to which he gave the command about Sunday collections, in I Corinthians 16:1-2. He says:

"We passed this holy Lord's Day, in which we read your letter, from the constant reading of which we shall be able to draw admonition." Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, Bk. 4, Chapt. 23 (emphasis added).

CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA, in Egypt, (AD 194)

Clement, writing around AD 194 says:

"He, in fulfillment of the precept, keeps the Lord's day when he abandons an evil disposition, and assumes that of the Gnostic, glorifying the Lord's resurrection in himself" Book 7, Chapter 12 (emphasis added).

IGNATIUS, the third bishop of Antioch, who died in AD 108, wrote:

"If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him... Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for "he that does not work, let him not eat."...let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]" "Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians," The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 1, pp. 62-63 (emphasis added).

TERTULLIAN of Africa, wrote around AD 200:

In his Apology, Chapter 16, Tertullian says:

"We solemnize the day after Saturday in contradistinction to those who call this day their Sabbath, and devote it to ease and eating, deviating from the old Jewish customs, which they are now very ignorant of."

"Others, with greater regard to good manners, it must be confessed, suppose that the sun is the god of the Christian, because it is a well- known fact that we pray towards the east, or because we make Sunday a day of festivity" The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 3, p. 123 (emphasis added).

NOTE: The early church explained why they prayed toward the east. It was because, "as the lightning which lighteneth from the east and is seen even to the west, so shall the coming of the Son of man be:" that by this we might know and understand that He will appear from the east suddenly" Ancient Syriac Documents, The Ante- Nicene Fathers, vol. 8, p. 668.

The Sabbath & Sunday
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#84
DO WE EVEN KNOW THE REAL SABBATH?

In 1582 Gregory XIII found a miscalculation in the calendar and decreed to drop October 5-14 and to drop 3 leap years in every century. In England 11 days (September 3-13) were dropped in 1752, in addition to other changes. (See Heresies Exposed, p. 167).

The Sabbath & Sunday
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#85
NEW LIGHT ON CEREMONIAL SABBATHS AND COLOSSIANS 2:16

An unbiased reading of Colossians 2:16 will show that this is talking about not just "ceremonial Sabbaths." The words "ton sabbaton" or "sabbath days"; are the same words translated "Sabbath day" in Exodus 20:8 in the Septuagint (the Jewish translation of the Old Testament into Greek).

Look at Paul's reasoning, "Let no one judge you regarding a,

• festival - yearly Sabbaths,
• a new moon - monthly Sabbaths,
• or a Sabbath day - weekly Sabbaths (or if you wish Sabbath days)"
• CHRIST, he goes on to say is the "Substance", these things were shadows.

When this passage is compared with Galatians 4:9 an obvious connection in Paul's teaching is revealed:

"But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years."

Verse 10 flatly states, "you observe...",

• days (weekly Sabbaths, corresponding to "Sabbath days in Col. 2)
• months (new moons, corresponding to "a new moon" in Col. 2)
• seasons (the 7 feasts, corresponding to "festivals" in Col. 2)
• and years (the sabbatical year and the 50th year of Jubilee)

Obviously Paul is clearing speaking about the observances of all Jewish holy day, including the Sabbath.

The Sabbath & Sunday
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#86
SABBATARIANS have long challenged, "Find one verse in the Bible that shows the day of worship has been changed from Sabbath to Sunday."

Well, that statement is part of building a straw man. It is not the issue. The New Testament makes that a moot point because it says it doesn't matter what day you worship on.

Romans 14:5
"One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind."

Galatians 4:9-11 "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain."

Colossians 2:16-17 "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

The Sabbath & Sunday
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#87
SABBATARIANS ASK FOR ONE TEXT IN THE BIBLE THAT COMMANDS SUNDAY WORSHIP, HERE IT IS:

LEVITICUS 23:5-11 - Look at verse 11: "'And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.'" The day after the Sabbath is Sunday.

Read on specifically looking at Leviticus 23:15 - "'You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete sabbaths. You shall count fifty days to the DAY AFTER THE SEVENTH SABBATH; then you shall present a new grain offering to the Lord.'" This is the Feast of Pentecost. It was one of the compulsory feasts of Israel.

Note on the day of Pentecost, a Sunday God's people were commanded to worship. God says, "On this same day you shall make a proclamation as well; you are to have a holy convocation. You shall do no laborious work. It is to be perpetual statute in all your dwelling places throughout your generations." Leviticus 23:21.

If you think this is only applying to "ceremonial" days, Leviticus 23 starts out talking about the weekly Sabbath (see Lev. 23:1-4). It is called an appointed time and a holy convocation, along with all the other feast days of Israel. No distinction is made by God between these holy days and the weekly Sabbath. He includes them as being equally holy.

This would mean that under the Old Covenant the First Fruits Sunday and the Pentecost Sunday were as holy and sanctified as Saturday.

If you think this only applies to Israel, that's our point. The Ten Commandment Covenant, --the Old Covenant was made with Israel, and NOT with the Gentiles.


Look at Exodus 31:13, 16 and 17: "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you....So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever;..."




References for the 9 "moral" commandments reiterated in the New Testament:

1st - Worship God -

(53 times) Matthew 2:2; 2:8; 2:11; 4:9; 4:10; 14:33; 15:9; 28:9; 28:17, Mark 7:7, Luke 4:7; 4:8; 24:52, John 4:20,21,22(x2),23,24(x2); 9:38; 12:20, Acts 7:43; 8:27; 16:14; 17:23(x2); 18:7; 18:13; 19:27; 24:11, Romans 1:25; 12:1, 1 Corinthians 14:25, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:18, Hebrews 1:6; 9:1; 9:6; 10:2; 11:21, Revelation 4:10; 5:14; 7:11; 9:20; 11:1; 11:16; 14:7; 15:4; 19:4; 19:10; 22:8; 22:9
2nd - No Idolatry -

(20 times) Acts 15:20,29, Romans 1:25, 1 Corinthians 6:9; Chapter 8; 10:7,14; 12:2, 2 Corinthians 6:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:9, Galatians 5:20, Ephesians 5:5, Colossians 3:5, 1 Peter 4:3, 1 John 5:21, Revelation 2:14, 20; 9:20; 21:8; 22:15

3rd - No Profanity -

(4 times) Matthew 12:36, Ephesians 5:4, Romans 2:24, Revelation 16:9

5th - Honor Parents -

(6 times) Matthew 15:5, Matthew 19:19, Mark 7:10; 10:19, Luke 18:20, Ephesians 6:2

6th - Murder -

(7 times) Matthew 5:21; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 1:29; 13:9, James 2:11

7th - Adultery -

(12 times) Matthew 5:27,28,32; 19:9,18, Mark 10:11,19, Luke 16:18; 18:20, Romans 13:9, James 2:11, 2 Peter 2:14

8th - Stealing -

(6 times) Matthew 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 2:21; 13:9, Ephesians 4:28

9th - Lying -

(4 times) Matthew 15:9; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20

10th - Don't Covet -

(9 times) Mark 7:22, Luke 12:15, Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9, Ephesians 5:3, Colossians 3:5, Hebrews 13:5, 2 Peter 2:14

The Sabbath & Sunday


END SOURCE

........


Saturday Sabbath; 7th day Sabbath; NOT COMMANDED ONE TIME IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.

can the Holy Spirit be trusted to teach us ALL THINGS or not?
 
S

Shiloah

Guest
#88
great!

Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.



Romans 14:5
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.
This is my answer to these scriptures posted to say the sabbath law was abolished.

1) The Collosians quote could easily be saying "don't be judging people for how they keep these days," which has nothing to do with abolishing them. As in, don't be saying someone walked to far to church that day. Don't be saying if they go for a long walk in the country, they're working, and hence, not keeping sabbath. It doesn't say the sabbath no longer applies.

2) You think Paul in one verse which is vague at best would have the right to put away a law of God written by His own hand? Paul does not have that authority. Only Christ Himself has that authority. He never said the sabbath law was fulfilled, in fact, he repeatedly said to keep His commandments. He didn't throw aside any one of them. He's the authority. He's the one that gave those commandments, and only He has the authority to change or abolish any one of them, or fulfill... which He did... I'd think it would be obvious... the sacrificial laws.

To say Jesus had to repeat laws in order that they still be in force is a tactic I've heard used multiple times. That's a precedent you've set. Nowhere in scriptures does it say this precedent must be met.
 
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S

Shiloah

Guest
#89
SABBATARIANS have long challenged, "Find one verse in the Bible that shows the day of worship has been changed from Sabbath to Sunday."

Well, that statement is part of building a straw man. It is not the issue. The New Testament makes that a moot point because it says it doesn't matter what day you worship on.

Romans 14:5
"One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind."

Galatians 4:9-11 "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain."

Colossians 2:16-17 "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

The Sabbath & Sunday
I'm not saying I'm not continually readdressing this issue for myself, because I certainly see that many committed Christians believe that the 7th day sabbath law has been fulfilled as a shadow of Christ's coming. Also, I certainly think these points are worth paying attention to. But until I am fully convinced of this, I have to go with what makes the most sense to me.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#90
This is my answer to these scriptures posted to say the sabbath law was abolished.

1) The Collosians quote could easily be saying "don't be judging people for how they keep these days," which has nothing to do with abolishing them. As in, don't be saying someone walked to far to church that day. Don't be saying if they go for a long walk in the country, they're working, and hence, not keeping sabbath. It doesn't say the sabbath no longer applies.
could easily be saying? huh?
it says exactly what it says.

abolished? if you choose this as a day of rest or a day set aside where you alone or with others of like mind choose certain activities or non-activities (even though they're not in accordance with the sabbath laws).....it's not abolished...is it.

"applies"?

if you want it to apply to you (as a Law), or to obey it (Law), obey it exactly as it was commanded.
if you're tweaking the Sinai sabbath for yourself, that's fine too - but don't pretend you're obeying the Law.

a long walk in the country was not permitted on the sabbath...was it?

as a Christian, with liberty, if you have decided our 'Saturday' (even though Saturday falls in a different day around the GLOBE, and even Rabbis admit they don't know what day it is), be free in your personal choice.

if you have esteemed one day over another; be fully persuaded in your own mind.

Colossians 2:16-17
"Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

it's clear ALL those things were mere shadows:)
like the partial gifts poured out at Pentecost (they all eventually came together in completion - teleios).

the Substance is Jesus.

2) You think Paul in one verse which is vague at best would have the right to put away a law of God written by His own hand? Paul does not have that authority.
NOT ONE SINGLE COMMANDMENT TO OBSERVE 7TH DAY SABBATH IN ALL OF THE NEW TESTAMENT.

not one.

did Paul act alone? a rogue?

can the Holy Spirit be trusted to show us the SUBSTANCE and FULLNESS of Jesus Christ?

Only Christ Himself has that authority. He never said the sabbath law was fulfilled, in fact, he repeatedly said to keep His commandments. He didn't throw aside any one of them. He's the authority. He's the one that gave those commandments, and only He has the authority to change or abolish any one of them, or fulfill... which He did... I'd think it would be obvious... the sacrificial laws.
did God lose control of the record he was handing down for us?
did the Holy Spirit lose control and was no longer able to inspire the Apostles?
not one single commandment concerning the sabbath EXCEPT to not judge according to days esteemed.

if you choose Saturday (Sinai) - that is your choice.
if you were raised jewish, it's likely you would continue to observe that day.

please find the Holy Spirit or the Jerusalem Council instructing gentiles about a day they NEVER observed.
it should be crucial.

not there.

To say Jesus had to repeat laws in order that they still be in force is a tactic I've heard used multiple times. That's a precedent you've set. Nowhere in scriptures does it say this precedent must be met.
oh this old game.
alright....are you killing people in your community (specifically stoning) when they go for long walks on the sabbath?

there are specific distances one may travel.
if not, you are defiling the sabbath. not obeying it.

you say Jesus assumed the sabbath laws would be known and obeyed by everyone after Calvary and didn't need to teach them, nor the Holy Spirit inspire the Apostles to teach them.

that leaves us ONLY with going back to the Law as it was given.
are you going to go to Moses and start changing what was handed down?

did Jesus cover everything we need in the New Testament?
do you have a red letter Bible?

did Jesus choose His 12 and teach them for 3 years?
wouldn't He have made certain they taught 7th day sabbath - if our eternal destiny hangs on this, it will be mentioned at least once.

it isn't.

Only Christ Himself has that authority. He never said the sabbath law was fulfilled, in fact, he repeatedly said to keep His commandments. He didn't throw aside any one of them. He's the authority. He's the one that gave those commandments, and only He has the authority to change or abolish any one of them, or fulfill... which He did... I'd think it would be obvious... the sacrificial laws.
Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#91
I'm not saying I'm not continually readdressing this issue for myself, because I certainly see that many committed Christians believe that the 7th day sabbath law has been fulfilled as a shadow of Christ's coming. Also, I certainly think these points are worth paying attention to. But until I am fully convinced of this, I have to go with what makes the most sense to me.
which is what Paul said:)

Romans 14:5
"One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind."

God Bless you in our liberty in Christ, the Substance of all that came before.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#92
Christ gave His blood for our sins in eternal time, a shadow of that blood was used for thousands of years for atonement in human time. Then Christ fulfilled that and the shadow of His blood was no longer used for salvation from sin.

When there is a shadow only that is seen, the substance of that shadow has to be there.

Some people say fulfilled means to throw out. Doesn't mean that in any dictionary I have seen.

Some say that Paul, as he explained God principles surrounding this, said that it meant God principles changed, God wiped out many things. God is eternal, God doesn't change.

When people pull out God's words and say they mean what God never, ever intended them to mean, such as that all of the law is gone and we live with only order that comes through human minds, it is creating a God that isn't truth. It is as bad as the people who used statues as gods.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#93
Romans 14:5-6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

This type of permissive language would never have been allowed concerning the Sabbath in the OT.The permissive language by Paul indicates permissive change for the Christian. It's not rocket science...it's not even high school science.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#94
Romans 14:5-6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

This type of permissive language would never have been allowed concerning the Sabbath in the OT.The permissive language by Paul indicates permissive change for the Christian. It's not rocket science...it's not even high school science.
Romans 7:1
Do you not know, brothers and sisters--for I am speaking to those who know the law--that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives?
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#95
Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
And that was said nearly 2000 years ago. If it was obsolete and ready to disappear then, where could it possibly be now?
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
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#96
Entering into God's rest is a symbol of entering to His kingdom. Worshiping on Sunday is a symbol of our communion with Him now in light of what yet is to come.

Hebrews 4

New King James Version (NKJV)
The Promise of Rest

4 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. (the author is concerned that Hebrew may not have understood the full implications of having faith in the work of Christ in regarding His rest and is concerned they might miss it) [SUP]2 [/SUP]For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. (they, some/most of the Hebrews lacked the faith to believe although the gospel was clearly preached to them) [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we who have believed do enter that rest (assurance to those who genuinely believe will enter His rest, His kingdom, His creation, His presence), as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’” (regarding the reprobate).


although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.[SUP]
4 [/SUP]For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.” (

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Since therefore it remains that some must enter it (predestination-God's plan from the beginning of time), and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, [SUP]7 [/SUP]again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”
(This day is not limited to 1 24 hour day, this is the day when someone opens their heart to God, in which has it's roots God's plan of redemption, culminating in Christ as our sacrificial lamb).


[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. [SUP]9 [/SUP]There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

Notice the reference to creation here. God created the world is six steps/days and rested from His work of creating things the seventh day. He called His creation good. God and humanity were in harmony together, until the fall in which man became an enemy to God and broke that rest. Christ came to redeem us from our sin/the fall/ our broken rest to all those who believe and to restore the relationship/ harmony we once had with God, having Christ as our mediator. Christ rising on the 1st day of the week has enormous significance in that while our bodies are still in bondage to decay, our soul/spirit are created anew. Its a done deal, we enter into His rest-His Creation/Kingdom spiritually. In Genesis 1 regarding God's rest, the 7th day, it never states it is complete as in comparison the other days which are complete by the phrase "so the evening and the morning were the xday." This means that God is not done resting. He is still resting. Resting from His work in creating anything physically anew, however, not resting is the sense of redemption in which He is hard at work and involving Christians in this work. The resurrection of Christ is not only confirmation of truth of the gospel and our soul/spirit relationship stored, but is also a shadow of His creation restored/and our body's restored as well, in which is yet to come at His 2nd advent. At the 2nd Advent, God will again do, as he did on the first day and the day of His resurrection, which is to create. He will end this resting period in which I would call thee 1000 yr period, the completed time of fallen human history, of Christ building His Church, to once again work in creating everything anew. This is paradise restored, the new heavens and earth, and the new Jerusalem.

Hence, Christians are told to eagerly wait and anticipate this day, the 2nd coming of Christ. I can't think of a better day to gather with the body of Christ and celebrate ALL things in which God has done and His great love of us.
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#97
When people pull out God's words and say they mean what God never, ever intended them to mean, such as that all of the law is gone and we live with only order that comes through human minds, it is creating a God that isn't truth. It is as bad as the people who used statues as gods.
LOL!
mkay.

my New Testament is filled with instruction and order.
they came directly from God.

God-breathed.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#98
Romans 14:5-6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

This type of permissive language would never have been allowed concerning the Sabbath in the OT.The permissive language by Paul indicates permissive change for the Christian. It's not rocket science...it's not even high school science.
The OT teaches the same thing about how to look at law that the NT teaches. Both say it is the heart and love that counts. The OT was creating a place where there was law and order in a world that sacrificed children, etc. You have to search for how love was more important than strict doing. In that world, the doing had to be. In the NT it was a world where God's people needed to learn more of the love, and pagans needed to not get caught up in such relative trivia as the day they worshipped. Love is what is mostly written about and obeying law through love. This testament also tells of the same obedience required that the OT said, and people are trying to take out the obedience part of it, now.

When you say that God would never be permissive in the OT, God is in the NT, you need to go back through both those testaments. You have to search harder for obedience in the NT, and search harder for instructions to love first in the OT, but they both teach the same.
 
S

Shiloah

Guest
#99
could easily be saying? huh?
it says exactly what it says.

abolished? if you choose this as a day of rest or a day set aside where you alone or with others of like mind choose certain activities or non-activities (even though they're not in accordance with the sabbath laws).....it's not abolished...is it.

"applies"?

if you want it to apply to you (as a Law), or to obey it (Law), obey it exactly as it was commanded.
if you're tweaking the Sinai sabbath for yourself, that's fine too - but don't pretend you're obeying the Law.

a long walk in the country was not permitted on the sabbath...was it?

as a Christian, with liberty, if you have decided our 'Saturday' (even though Saturday falls in a different day around the GLOBE, and even Rabbis admit they don't know what day it is), be free in your personal choice.

if you have esteemed one day over another; be fully persuaded in your own mind.

Colossians 2:16-17
"Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

it's clear ALL those things were mere shadows:)
like the partial gifts poured out at Pentecost (they all eventually came together in completion - teleios).

the Substance is Jesus.



NOT ONE SINGLE COMMANDMENT TO OBSERVE 7TH DAY SABBATH IN ALL OF THE NEW TESTAMENT.

not one.

did Paul act alone? a rogue?

can the Holy Spirit be trusted to show us the SUBSTANCE and FULLNESS of Jesus Christ?



did God lose control of the record he was handing down for us?
did the Holy Spirit lose control and was no longer able to inspire the Apostles?
not one single commandment concerning the sabbath EXCEPT to not judge according to days esteemed.

if you choose Saturday (Sinai) - that is your choice.
if you were raised jewish, it's likely you would continue to observe that day.

please find the Holy Spirit or the Jerusalem Council instructing gentiles about a day they NEVER observed.
it should be crucial.

not there.



oh this old game.
alright....are you killing people in your community (specifically stoning) when they go for long walks on the sabbath?

there are specific distances one may travel.
if not, you are defiling the sabbath. not obeying it.

you say Jesus assumed the sabbath laws would be known and obeyed by everyone after Calvary and didn't need to teach them, nor the Holy Spirit inspire the Apostles to teach them.

that leaves us ONLY with going back to the Law as it was given.
are you going to go to Moses and start changing what was handed down?

did Jesus cover everything we need in the New Testament?
do you have a red letter Bible?

did Jesus choose His 12 and teach them for 3 years?
wouldn't He have made certain they taught 7th day sabbath - if our eternal destiny hangs on this, it will be mentioned at least once.

it isn't.



Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
I still can't see for sure that Paul was saying he no longer believed a 7th day sabbath was necessary. And again, I just can't feel that even if he was, he would have the authority to change a law. Again, that's just what makes the most sense to me. And yes, that's the best any one of us can do.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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So you are saying that the 4th Commandment is actually the 4th Suggestion relative to the time and place?