Sunday - the first day of the week

[zone]

I still can't see for sure that Paul was saying he no longer believed a 7th day sabbath was necessary. And again, I just can't feel that even if he was, he would have the authority to change a law. Again, that's just what makes the most sense to me. And yes, that's the best any one of us can do.

okay.
but to even suggest Paul acted on his own (?) is crazy.
The whole Jerusalem Council, and the Holy Spirit addressed this matter all at once, for all time.
it's pretty clear.

we ought to be able to trust James, and all the apostles and elders, with the whole church AND the Holy Spirit ("It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us"):


Acts 15
The Council at Jerusalem
1Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

12The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14Simona has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

16“ ‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’b —
18things known from long ago.c

19“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers

22Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23With them they sent the following letter:

The apostles and elders, your brothers,

To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

Farewell.

....

folks are quick to say - oh that was just some trying to say circumcision was required.

although i imagine circumcision is intolerably though briefly painful, it certainly wouldn't be the "yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear"....that was the LAW of MOSES.

what did their letter (Holy Spirit inspired) proceed to say?

"No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are".

nothing in there about 7th day sabbath, and this would have been THE PLACE to make certain it was commanded.

this is in there though (Paul already warned about another gospel):

why do you try to test God

yikes

 

[zone]

You have to search harder for obedience in the NT, and search harder for instructions to love first in the OT, but they both teach the same.

they are BOTH about JESUS.
His obedience; His righteousness; His love.
to the Glory of the Father.
it was always about HIM.

John 3:16
"For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?


Romans 3
God’s Faithfulness
1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.

3What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”

5But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” 8Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!

No One Is Righteous

9What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”b
13“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”c
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”d
14“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”e
15“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16ruin and misery mark their ways,
17and the way of peace they do not know.”f
18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Righteousness Through Faith

21But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness is given through faith inh Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,i through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

.....

this sounds vaguely familiar coming from some camps:

Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!

 

[crossnote]

Romans 7:1
Do you not know, brothers and sisters--for I am speaking to those who know the law--that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives?

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Let's see. Duh. Dead to the Law and alive to Christ. Simple? Should be.
But watch how the Marvelous Scripture Twisters do their pretzel making manuevers.

 

[Shiloah]

okay.
but to even suggest Paul acted on his own (?) is crazy.
The whole Jerusalem Council, and the Holy Spirit addressed this matter all at once, for all time.
it's pretty clear.

we ought to be able to trust James, and all the apostles and elders, with the whole church AND the Holy Spirit ("It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us"):


Acts 15
The Council at Jerusalem
1Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

12The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14Simona has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

16“ ‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’b —
18things known from long ago.c

19“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers

22Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23With them they sent the following letter:

The apostles and elders, your brothers,

To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

Farewell.

....

folks are quick to say - oh that was just some trying to say circumcision was required.

although i imagine circumcision is intolerably though briefly painful, it certainly wouldn't be the "yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear"....that was the LAW of MOSES.

what did their letter (Holy Spirit inspired) proceed to say?

"No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are".

nothing in there about 7th day sabbath, and this would have been THE PLACE to make certain it was commanded.

this is in there though (Paul already warned about another gospel):

why do you try to test God

yikes

Good grief. I am not testing God. I'm just trying to make sure I'm doing His will on this. Whether Paul acted on his own or not means nothing to me. I'm addressing firstly, whether or not Paul was actually saying keeping a 7th day sabbath is no longer required, and secondly, that even if he did say that, he did NOT have the authority in himself to change a law of God. Do we put what we (think) Paul was saying above what Christ told us to do?

Testing God. Huhhh?? Another gospel? What other gospel? I believe in the same gospel you do. Do we always have to start throwing personal darts in bible studies?

If I were to believe Paul was abolishing all other commandments (as in, what points out sin) but what he stated there, I'd have to reject Paul. Jesus is the only true authority.

 

[Shiloah]

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Let's see. Duh. Dead to the Law and alive to Christ. Simple? Should be.
But watch how the Marvelous Scripture Twisters do their pretzel making manuevers.

Let's see... duhhh.... maybe that means dead to sacrificing animals for our sin because Jesus fulfilled that? Jesus said all the commandments would stand forever unless they be fulfilled. The same old same old argument then surfaces. Can we lie now, steal, commit adultery, etc., etc.?

Talk about pretzeling scriptures. lol.

 

[Shiloah]

Let me get this straight. When we talk about teaching another gospel, are we talking about the gospel of Paul or the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

(I guess that verse isn't referring to anything specific. It can't possibly be. Cause that doesn't work with our agenda?)

 

[zone]

Good grief. I am not testing God.

didn't say you were.
it came from the passage.

I'm just trying to make sure I'm doing His will on this.

yep. that's a good thing.

Whether Paul acted on his own or not means nothing to me.

oh...well rest assured he didn't.
it was always God's Plan to save gentiles - He preached that gospel to Abraham first.
Jesus sent Paul AFTER the gospel went to israel FIRST, as promised.
paul preached to gentiles jews and kings.

I'm addressing firstly, whether or not Paul was actually saying keeping a 7th day sabbath is no longer required

there's been plenty of scripture shown.

, and secondly, that even if he did say that, he did NOT have the authority in himself to change a law of God. Do we put what we (think) Paul was saying above what Christ told us to do?

Galatians 1
Paul Called by God
11For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel.c 12For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. 13For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it. 14And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers. 15But when he who had set me apart before I was born,d and who called me by his grace, 16was pleased to reveal his Son toe me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;f 17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.

18Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days. 19But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother. 20(In what I am writing to you, before God, I do not lie!) 21Then I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia. 22And I was still unknown in person to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23They only were hearing it said, “He who used to persecute us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” 24And they glorified God because of me.

Testing God. Huhhh?? Another gospel? What other gospel? I believe in the same gospel you do. Do we always have to start throwing personal darts in bible studies?

why are you taking that personally.
i was quoting from the passage, highlighting the dangers of other gospels....for anyone reading.
Paul said his gospel - liberty - he got directly from the Lord.

the Council said neither they nor their fathers could bear the yoke of the Law.

If I were to believe Paul was abolishing all other commandments (as in, what points out sin) but what he stated there, I'd have to reject Paul. Jesus is the only true authority.

Paul (Holy Spirit inspired) penned 2/3s of the NT.
he quoted more OT than any other NT writer.

he's the one God chose to reveal the purpose of the Law (to reveal our sin).

Jesus gave authority to His Apostles.
scripture is trustworthy or it isn't.

k....God Bless

 

[zone]

Let's see... duhhh.... maybe that means dead to sacrificing animals for our sin because Jesus fulfilled that? Jesus said all the commandments would stand forever unless they be fulfilled. The same old same old argument then surfaces. Can we lie now, steal, commit adultery, etc., etc.?

Talk about pretzeling scriptures. lol.

Romans 7
Released From the Law, Bound to Christ
1Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5For when we were in the realm of the flesh,a the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

The Law and Sin

7What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”b 8But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.

10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

........

Exodus 20
The Ten Commandments
1And God spoke all these words, saying,

2“I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

3“You shall have no other gods beforea me.

4“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing steadfast love to thousandsb of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7“You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

8“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.

13“You shall not murder.

14“You shall not commit adultery.

15“You shall not steal.

16“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

17“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.”

18Now when all the people saw the thunder and the flashes of lightning and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, the people were afraidd and trembled, and they stood far off 19and said to Moses, “You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, lest we die.” 20Moses said to the people, “Do not fear, for God has come to test you, that the fear of him may be before you, that you may not sin.” 21The people stood far off, while Moses drew near to the thick darkness where God was.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let me get this straight. When we talk about teaching another gospel, are we talking about the gospel of Paul or the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

(I guess that verse isn't referring to anything specific. It can't possibly be. Cause that doesn't work with our agenda?)

It is talking about those who are born again. Those born again have the spirit of Christ, and they obey BECAUSE they have been born again.

The issue comes when we try to make ourselves born again by obeying the law (commands) then it becomes a different gospel.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But watch how the Marvelous Scripture Twisters do their pretzel making manuevers.

We now pause for a moment for this break...

[video=youtube;xbK0C9AYMd8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbK0C9AYMd8[/video]

 

[zone]

Let me get this straight. When we talk about teaching another gospel, are we talking about the gospel of Paul or the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

(I guess that verse isn't referring to anything specific. It can't possibly be. Cause that doesn't work with our agenda?)

téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Short Definition: I keep, guard, observe
Definition: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.

5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact.

~

this isn't always easy, what with all the ppl adding and taking away.

 

[zone]

John 14:21
Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.

entolé: an injunction, order, command
Original Word: ἐντολή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: entolé
Phonetic Spelling: (en-tol-ay')
Short Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

1785 entolḗ (a feminine noun derived from 1722 /en, "in," which intensifies 5056 /télos, "reach the end, consummation") – properly, "in the end," focusing on the end-result (objective) of a command.

[1785 /entolḗ (a feminine noun) highlights the nature of a specific order (charge), i.e. its "in-context objective."]

ἐντολήν διδόναι τίνι, John 14:31 L Tr WH; with τί εἴπῃ added, of Christ, whom God commanded what to teach to men, John 12:49; ἡ ἐντολή αὐτοῦ, of God, respecting the same thing, John 12:50.


téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Short Definition: I keep, guard, observe
Definition: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.

5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact.

~

if we have His words, teachings, ordinances, injunctions, commands, and are keeping and guarding them, watching over them....does this not mean we love Him?

the Holy Spirit absolutely WILL sanctify and conform truly saved people who continue in Christ's word.
Abiding in Him, in His love.
remaining in His love. keeping and guarding and loving His words.
the Holy Spirit absolutely DOES deliver (gr: ago) them home.

you can not be born from above and not be changed.

this argument that christians who believe Jesus set us free to walk in newness of life are disobedient and ignoring God's Will is tiresome.
i see a some folks who don't even know what His Word says, let alone guard them....is that the love He talked about?

 

[vic1980]

yes he fulfilled the law...but the text says -plainly- that he broke the sabbath...so the sabbath must not have been binding law any more...or else he could not have fulfilled the law...

Who established the commandments the Law

Was it God Almighty the Great I AM or the Jews ?

Who keep and fullfilled the commandments, the Law according to the Father in heaven ruling of them, and uphold everyone of them.

Jesus Christ or Jews ?

It is written, if you break one commandment you broke them all James 2:10 ,Jesus said think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.I trully don't care for web sources, or men point of view that try so desperately to twist scripture to there liking, i will trust fully in Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior when he said he came to fulfil them and he has

Now onto John 5:18

This verse explains the unbeliving Jews point of view on the matter, Not God Almighty ruling on upholding his Law

How can christians agree ,with unbelivers jews that wanted our Lord and Savior killed for being faithful to God till the end, take there point of view on this matter as truth and nothing but the truth is trully beyond words...

If the sabbath must not have been binding law anymore when he walk among us, why did Jesus Christ himself say: Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

So much boasting ,of one another , Glory to one another agreeing with the unbeliving Jews saddeneds me...I will pray for you all God bless ...

And may God Almighty open your eyes on this matter amen

 

[JaumeJ]

Let us keep it plain and simple. Jesus never declared the first day of the week as the Sabbath or the day of worship or the Lord's day. There is mention of the day of the Lord in Revelation, but it is never associated by any with authority as being the first or the seventh day. Yeshua never commanded the first day to replace the Seventh day, that would be disorderly at best.

Also, all who so laboriously argue about which day is the Sabbath for others are working contrary to the Word. That is if you believe Paul about anyone revering one day over another, observing a certain diet over another etc. with a clear conscience in the sight of Yahweh is not guilty of sin.

So, why are you attempting to make something a sin that is not? It really is a waste of everyone's time, no matter how many scritpures are weaved together. There must be understanding otherwise it is just using up others' time.

If you love me in Yeshua, you will hear me out........I do not post this just for me, it is for the benefit of all.

 

[GRA]

Something To Remember About The Life Of Christ

When considering "old" vs "new" covenant issues - especially when involving the answer to the question "What did Jesus do?" -- remember that - until His sacrifice was made on the cross - the "old" covenant was still in effect. THIS is the reason that Christ followed all of the "old law" Jewish Customs, etc. - because, he was a Jew. He Himself was born under - and grew up under - and even had His ministry under -- the "context" of the "old" covenant. His entire life - literally up until the moment of His death - was lived under the 'old system' - while actually ( during His ministry ) "bringing in" the 'new system' at the same time...

This "following the 'old system' ordinances" was necessary for what he was to accomplish ( part of which was to fulfill the old law ) --- and, by the way, is precisely (I believe) what the phrase "confirm the covenant" in Daniel 9:27 is referring to.

Because of who He was - and the fact that He was "bringing in" the 'new system' ( new covenant ) - is where the "seeming exceptions" come from. ( i.e. - plucking ears of corn on the sabbath day ) During His ministry - He actually "operated" under the 'old' and the 'new' at the same time.

[SUP]27[/SUP] And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: [SUP]28[/SUP] Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. ~ Mark 2:27-28

The sabbath was made for man. [ The Son of man is Lord of all things 'man'. ] Therefore, the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Understand? Make sense?

The idea that "Whatever Jesus did, we must do also." is not valid. Yes, it is true that He "sets the example that we are to follow" with many things. However, discernment must be applied to distinguish between 'what He did' ( And, the greater part of all that he did was so that "we would not have to"... ) and 'what He [actually] commands us to do'...

Out of necessity - he "was bound" under the old covenant system until the sacrifice was made that "ushered in" the new covenant system. ( fully ) Yet, for Him personally - and thus, extended to the apostles by Him - the new covenant system was "in full effect" from the day of His annointing ( the day of His baptism ). From that day on - "liberty in Christ" was a definite and true reality.

"Because He was Lord, He could do anything He wanted..." ( within the confines of "the bigger picture" - understand the context )

Hope this helps...

 

[JaumeJ]

It is my understood duty to say this. We, as being gentiles, are brought together as one flock with the original flock according to Jesus, Yeshua. The promise of Messiah was known from Genesis, and the Chosen Nation of Yahweh waited for Him in hope. We being graffed in to the original do not wield authority over them, for they are enemies of the gospel for our Father's reasons, but they are beloved of Yahweh.

We are one with the Israel of Yahweh now. Israel has not become part of us. If we are not become part of the Israel of Yahweh, then we may as well toss out the Old Testament, but then the New would make no sense at all. Keep in mind the separation of the Books is made by man, they really are the Word of Yahweh, One Book.

 

[weakness]

WHY IS IT THAT NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT IS IT TAUGHT THAT THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT MUST BE OBSERVED?

-Why is it that nowhere in the New Testament is failure to keep the Sabbath day condemned as sin?

-Why is the fourth commandment itself not repeated even ONCE in the New Testament?

-If the Sabbath keeping is so important for a disciple of Christ, why was it not mentioned in His sermon on the Mount or in ANY of His teachings?

-Why didn't Jesus command Sabbath keeping?

-Why didn't any of the Apostles command Sabbath keeping?

-Why didn't the Jerusalem counsel command Sabbath keeping or condemn Sabbath breaking? (Acts 15)

Some answer that the Jews already knew about the Sabbath so it was taken for granted that they would continue to keep it, but then why were the other nine commandments reiterated? Would they not be taken for granted as well? It would also seem that with so many Gentiles coming into the Church, that if keeping the Sabbath was so important there would be instruction in the New Testament Epistles somewhere concerning it. There are instructions for them concerning morality, ethics, worship, Church order and family lifestyle. Why would something as important as Sabbath keeping be ignored? Circumcision, which predates the Law and the Sabbath commandment was an issue in the New Testament Church and is addressed repeatedly in the New Testament Epistles and by the Jerusalem Counsel.

The Sabbath & Sunday[/QUOTE Because Heb. clearly speaks of the "rest" left to the people of God. In which we cease from our own works and enter into his complete ,finished,provision.

 

[crossnote]

Let's see... duhhh.... maybe that means dead to sacrificing animals for our sin because Jesus fulfilled that? Jesus said all the commandments would stand forever unless they be fulfilled. The same old same old argument then surfaces. Can we lie now, steal, commit adultery, etc., etc.?

Talk about pretzeling scriptures. lol.

If you read on in context, Paul uses coveting (10th Commandment) as an example of part of that law...not sacrificing animals.

 

[crossnote]

Let me get this straight. When we talk about teaching another gospel, are we talking about the gospel of Paul or the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

(I guess that verse isn't referring to anything specific. It can't possibly be. Cause that doesn't work with our agenda?)

Paul received his gospel from Jesus Christ. Do you pit the two against each other?

 

[Shiloah]

Paul received his gospel from Jesus Christ. Do you pit the two against each other?

Well, if I'm going to pick one or the other, I'll pick Jesus Christ, thank you very much. Hence, I sure am glad I don't interpret Paul as meaning what you think he means or I'd have to toss him right out the door.