Technological Signs relating to Christ’s Coming are being fulfilled.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#201
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
#201
HeIsHere said:
I am not sure what you are asking. I do not need to Josephus to prove scripture.

If you can make the question plain I will try and respond.
Click to expand...

In Revelation 13 a group of people worship the image of the beast and receive it's mark,name or number,,,,,In the 69 years in Wars 2 the Jews refused to let Tiberius set up the images of Rome in the Temple and rebelled. They were accused of impious acts against Caesar(refused to see him as God) and in the end of the 1st Jewish revolt went to their death/defeat at the hands of Rome because they would only acknowledge the God of Abraham and their refusal to let them put their images in the Temple of God. Who received the mark the name and worshiped the Beast image if the Jews did the direct opposite?
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#202
May 21, 2022
5,811
2,263
113
#202
tourist said:
:p
Click to expand...

“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. - Luke 21:20

He is using “you”, a second person plural pronoun, to refer to the men standing right in front of Him in 30AD.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#203
Nov 20, 2018
22,820
8,306
113
#203
HeIsHere said:
a death blow to futurism.
Click to expand...
By that you also mean the future of Israel? Correct?

BTW....the words of Jesus always accord perfectly with the OT. And the OT is devastatingly overwhelmingly premillennial.
And are loaded to the brim with infallible clear prophecies regarding the final full repentance and redemption of God's people the nation Israel, the house of Jacob to their land promised to Abraham.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#204
Nov 20, 2018
22,820
8,306
113
#204
HeIsHere said:
“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. - Luke 21:20

He is using “you”, a second person plural pronoun, to refer to the men standing right in front of Him in 30AD.
Click to expand...
Time for you to at least try and graduate from eschatological kindergarten. You might as well start here.....

 
Beckie

Beckie

Well-known member
#205
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
939
113
#205
cv5 said:
By that you also mean the future of Israel? Correct?

BTW....the words of Jesus always accord perfectly with the OT. And the OT is devastatingly overwhelmingly premillennial.
And are loaded to the brim with infallible clear prophecies regarding the final full repentance and redemption of God's people the nation Israel, the house of Jacob to their land promised to Abraham.
Click to expand...
Mar_11:2 And saith unto them, Go your way into the village over against you: and as soon as ye be entered into it, ye shall find a colt tied, whereon never man sat; loose him, and bring him.

Joh_16:21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mar_14:42 Rise up, let us go; lo, he that betrayeth me is at hand.
Luk_21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
Luk_21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#206
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
#206
HeIsHere said:
“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. - Luke 21:20

He is using “you”, a second person plural pronoun, to refer to the men standing right in front of Him in 30AD.
Click to expand...

Let me ask you about something we were taught(in preterism that is) about the flight to Pella which was recorded by Eusebius(300ad) and Epiphanius(about 400ad) of the Christians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_to_Pella

Now there are two men who were separated from the events that took place by appox. 350-400 years telling us this (but),,, There is also Wars 2,chapter 18,paragraph 1 written by one of the former Generals of the Jewish revolt named Josephus who was an witness to these events who states that the Jews went to Pella and completely sacked it or burned it to the ground(it states some were destroyed and some burnt down but doesn't give which) .Anyway which do you think knew what actually happened in Pella at that time the one alive at that time or the two removed from it by 3 or 4 hundred years? (scroll down to chapter 18 paragraph 1) http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html
 
P

pablocito

Guest
#207
#207
tourist said:
This generation' is referring to the generation that is alive at the time of the end-time events. The things that are soon to take place are just beginning to be fulfilled. They have not already happened but certainly will at the appointed time.
Click to expand...
You are right and wrong at the same time. But you are more right for these last days. There is a key verse in the book of Ecclesiastes 3 that will point you in the right direction.
 
P

pablocito

Guest
#208
#208
iamsoandso said:
Let me ask you about something we were taught(in preterism that is) about the flight to Pella which was recorded by Eusebius(300ad) and Epiphanius(about 400ad) of the Christians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_to_Pella

Now there are two men who were separated from the events that took place by appox. 350-400 years telling us this (but),,, There is also Wars 2,chapter 18,paragraph 1 written by one of the former Generals of the Jewish revolt named Josephus who was an witness to these events who states that the Jews went to Pella and completely sacked it or burned it to the ground(it states some were destroyed and some burnt down but doesn't give which) .Anyway which do you think knew what actually happened in Pella at that time the one alive at that time or the two removed from it by 3 or 4 hundred years? (scroll down to chapter 18 paragraph 1) http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html
Click to expand...
I started out my pursuit of Christianity about 4 years ago, and what you said was the first thought that came into my head.

But that thought evaporated into thin air as I found out that I could get the truth from the source, the horses mouth, the bible, without going through any man or beast.

The first warning of Jesus Christ in Matt 24, the beattitudes, said this.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

God will punish you for your laziness. And for plagiarizing other men's work as your own, when the bible that is given freely to you, tells the complete truth and nothing but the truth.

There really is nothing else to say except that you navigate this life according to the contents of your heart. You either believe or you do not believe.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#209
May 21, 2022
5,811
2,263
113
#209
iamsoandso said:
Let me ask you about something we were taught(in preterism that is) about the flight to Pella which was recorded by Eusebius(300ad) and Epiphanius(about 400ad) of the Christians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_to_Pella

Now there are two men who were separated from the events that took place by appox. 350-400 years telling us this (but),,, There is also Wars 2,chapter 18,paragraph 1 written by one of the former Generals of the Jewish revolt named Josephus who was an witness to these events who states that the Jews went to Pella and completely sacked it or burned it to the ground(it states some were destroyed and some burnt down but doesn't give which) .Anyway which do you think knew what actually happened in Pella at that time the one alive at that time or the two removed from it by 3 or 4 hundred years? (scroll down to chapter 18 paragraph 1) http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html
Click to expand...

How about we not argue the veracity of historical perspectives.

Why is it you cannot trust the straightforward words of Jesus?
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#210
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
#210
pablocito said:
I started out my pursuit of Christianity about 4 years ago, and what you said was the first thought that came into my head.

But that thought evaporated into thin air as I found out that I could get the truth from the source, the horses mouth, the bible, without going through any man or beast.

The first warning of Jesus Christ in Matt 24, the beattitudes, said this.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

God will punish you for your laziness. And for plagiarizing other men's work as your own, when the bible that is given freely to you, tells the complete truth and nothing but the truth.

There really is nothing else to say except that you navigate this life according to the contents of your heart. You either believe or you do not believe.
Click to expand...

Yep I began reading the bible as a teenager from the first word in Genesis straight across to the last verse in Revelation. Now that I'm in my 80's I have lost track of how many times I have read it,,.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#211
May 21, 2022
5,811
2,263
113
#211
iamsoandso said:
In Revelation 13 a group of people worship the image of the beast and receive it's mark,name or number,,,,,In the 69 years in Wars 2 the Jews refused to let Tiberius set up the images of Rome in the Temple and rebelled. They were accused of impious acts against Caesar(refused to see him as God) and in the end of the 1st Jewish revolt went to their death/defeat at the hands of Rome because they would only acknowledge the God of Abraham and their refusal to let them put their images in the Temple of God. Who received the mark the name and worshiped the Beast image if the Jews did the direct opposite?
Click to expand...

Again, you assume the beast and the mark is connected to Rome.

There is not point me defending something I do not believe to be true.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#212
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
#212
HeIsHere said:
How about we not argue the veracity of historical perspectives.

Why is it you cannot trust the straightforward words of Jesus?
Click to expand...

Oh I do trust the words of Jesus,,,it's being told that everything is fulfilled in prophecy by some without them being able to explain when and how that I distrust.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#213
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
#213
HeIsHere said:
Again, you assume the beast and the mark is connected to Rome.

There is not point me defending something I do not believe to be true.
Click to expand...

You don't believe there is a mark? And I ask you in another post who you thought the beast was if not Rome.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#214
Nov 20, 2018
22,820
8,306
113
#214
HeIsHere said:
Yes
Click to expand...
Really? OK. Then you must also believe the same of Rev 20 correct?

Assuming that you DO believe that Rev 20 is God-breathed by Jesus, then we must deduce that you also
believe that Satan was bound in 70AD. Afterward there was peace on earth, the lion lay down with the lamb,
swords were made into plows and spears into pruning hooks. AND THEN Satan was released in 1070AD to unleash
deception and hell on earth. I could go on but I will leave it at that.

So tell us......is my analysis of what you believe accurate? Or are you in fact premillennial after all?
Frankly, I am not certain if you are a full preterist and amillennial or not, because you offer so little in the way of
proof texts or even theory to cement your doctrinal beliefs.
But you can confirm or deny your status for the board now. We would appreciate your candor in the matter.

Rev 20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Rev 20:3
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#216
Nov 20, 2018
22,820
8,306
113
#216
Beckie said:
Mar_11:2 And saith unto them, Go your way into the village over against you: and as soon as ye be entered into it, ye shall find a colt tied, whereon never man sat; loose him, and bring him.

Joh_16:21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mar_14:42 Rise up, let us go; lo, he that betrayeth me is at hand.
Luk_21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
Luk_21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
Click to expand...
Thats right. The kingdom WAS indeed at hand.....FOR THE JEWS and the Jews alone. That was the offer on the table.

And then (according to all that the prophets had spoken) they rejected their true King, and crucified Him. And then the Church Age initiated about 40 days later. He was crucified with the title "King of the Jews" just so you would notice.

But of course, if you know your Bible, you would know that despite their foreordained rejection, God has equipped about 2/3rds of the Bible with endless passages GUARANTEEING the redemption of Israel at the end times.

BTW......Israel has undoubtedly been miraculously preserved by God. And never were allowed to be extinguished (just as Jesus said).
And......they are back. As a sovereign nation. In their land. Maybe you failed to notice this notable development?

This is not THE end time "gathering" of course. That only happens after the SC.
This is more like the "pre-gathering" oh so necessary for all of the end-time prophetic events to happen at all.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#217
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
#217
cv5 said:
I don't. So please inform the board of your opinion on this mark of the beast.
Click to expand...

I don't either actually what I said in a post was "(Rome?)" when I ask him a question and so he thinks I do. In Romans 13 we are told to obey our masters as ordained of God https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 13&version=KJV and then in verse 7 to render to them all their dues(taxes?)... And a multitude of others also Colossians 3:22,,,Ephesians 6:5,,,1 Peter 2:18 ect. You would have to wonder if at that time the Apostles thought that Rome was the beast spoken of in Revelation 13 why they would suggest that we were to obey them or use their money. Rome the fourth beast in Daniel was at that time still holding Judah/Israel in bondage. They had obeyed God and suffered under Assyria,,,Babylon then Persia,,,Greece ect. but when they were in bondage under the fourth beast(Rome) they (the Jews) thought to cast off that bondage foretold to them in Daniel. That is unlike what the Apostles were suggesting in that it was ordained of God.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#218
Nov 20, 2018
22,820
8,306
113
#218
iamsoandso said:
That is unlike what the Apostles were suggesting in that it was ordained of God.
Click to expand...
Totally agree bro....(y)

I keep saying it and have not yet found reason to retract it: preterists are holding an empty bag.
 
Beckie

Beckie

Well-known member
#219
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
939
113
#219
cv5 said:
Thats right. The kingdom WAS indeed at hand.....FOR THE JEWS and the Jews alone. That was the offer on the table.

And then (according to all that the prophets had spoken) they rejected their true King, and crucified Him. And then the Church Age initiated about 40 days later. He was crucified with the title "King of the Jews" just so you would notice.

But of course, if you know your Bible, you would know that despite their foreordained rejection, God has equipped about 2/3rds of the Bible with endless passages GUARANTEEING the redemption of Israel at the end times.

BTW......Israel has undoubtedly been miraculously preserved by God. And never were allowed to be extinguished (just as Jesus said).
And......they are back. As a sovereign nation. In their land. Maybe you failed to notice this notable development?

This is not THE end time "gathering" of course. That only happens after the SC.
This is more like the "pre-gathering" oh so necessary for all of the end-time prophetic events to happen at all.
Click to expand...
Not for Luke?
 
Beckie

Beckie

Well-known member
#220
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
939
113
#220
Some folks are hoping for a kingdom unlike the the Kingdom of God . The kingdom of God is ...according to His Word
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.