Technological Signs relating to Christ’s Coming are being fulfilled.

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GaryA

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I would argue that He already came and set up His eternal kingdom as per Daniel 2. And since that time has been doing over time what you believe comes instantly.
Do you believe God set up His eternal kingdom during the Roman empire? Does Daniel 2 teach that? If not, what does it teach?
Is there any prophecy whatsoever in the Bible that you believe has not been fulfilled?
 

Cameron143

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I believe this to be the last indication of people being saved before Christ returns:

Revelation 11:

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
What time frame do you believe is being considered in Revelation 5 when there is none found worthy to open the scroll and then there is a lamb seated on a throne who is worthy?
 

Lafftur

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Apr 18, 2017
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Huh? I was a pre trib guy until i understood the more of the scriptures in the context of time and the history of the church. Now i think that the events of 70 ad fulfilled many of the prophecies.
I know a lor of people believe that the 1948 establishment of the nation state of Israel was fulfillment of the prophecy in Dueteronomy but if you read the full passage about the restoration of Israel, they first have to return to God and repent which has not happened. That nation is a heathen nation like all nations; Babylon.
Check out One for Israel….


 

HeIsHere

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Since God would have all to be saved, do you think Christ would return before that last possible soul was saved?
There will never be a last soul in practical terms, there will always me another and another.

I cannot imagine a point when the Gospel and the working of the Holy Spirit would not have the power to save.
 

Lafftur

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Apr 18, 2017
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What does this have to do with what i said?
In post #11 you said:

I know a lor of people believe that the 1948 establishment of the nation state of Israel was fulfillment of the prophecy in Dueteronomy but if you read the full passage about the restoration of Israel, they first have to return to God and repent which has not happened. That nation is a heathen nation like all nations; Babylon.

It is happening… the restoration of Israel.. just like Gentiles, Jews are coming to believe in Jesus Christ as Messiah… it IS happening.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

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In post #11 you said:

I know a lor of people believe that the 1948 establishment of the nation state of Israel was fulfillment of the prophecy in Dueteronomy but if you read the full passage about the restoration of Israel, they first have to return to God and repent which has not happened. That nation is a heathen nation like all nations; Babylon.

It is happening… the restoration of Israel.. just like Gentiles, Jews are coming to believe in Jesus Christ as Messiah… it IS happening.
Less than 2% of the population of Israel is Christian. More than half of that 2% are actually Arab.
 

HeIsHere

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The zealots refused to let them set their images up in the temple and refused to worship the image but they did not "follow the lamb" (they instead denied the Messiah).
What I am saying is the mark of the beast and the beast had nothing to do with Rome, the full or partial preterists who believe this are most likely wrong.

The zealots had their own mark that they used to mark their followers.
 
P

pablocito

Guest
now you connect me to the JWs ..really? My mistake to think my belief in Jesus was clear in the first post you criticized.
Why do you choose to judge with out learning of the one you are judging. I will not respond again...
This will be my last response to you, although this response is not so much to you but rather to any child of God who would be following this conversation.

A child of God must not only know about heaven but also about hell and the pitfalls and traps of the devil else he will be fodder for the devils consumption.

There is a common saying about those who are heavenly minded with no earthly good. They constantly peer up into the sky (into the heavens) not realizing that all around them the devil is hard at work breaking down their defenses. The devil is the prince of this world and goes about seeking those who he can devour.

Truly those who are easily offended by the word are really not saved and should probably prepare themselves for habitation among the mammon of unrighteousness.

Jesus said this:

Luke 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

Truly, Christianity involves due diligence in many areas which results in our sanctification and redemption into the kingdom of God.

2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
 

GaryA

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The best recipe for falling asleep while reading Revelation is to sit very still in the chair after having eaten... :sleep:
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Ezekiel 37:

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
The "dry bones prophecy" (Ezek37) is a passage not speaking of a "physical / bodily resurrection from having previously been bodily / physically dead"... it is a passage (like a number of other passages presenting SAME) that is LIKENING this to a resurrection; that is, Israel coming up out of the graveyard of nations, WHERE SCATTERED [/'sown unto the earth'] is LIKENED unto one.


Are you looking at the quoted passage above and thinking: UNSAVED persons of the nation of Israel, who've DIED (at some point in the past, from this perspective) will be "resurrected" (bodily, from the dead) and THEN the SPIRIT OF GOD is breathed into them (like, AFTER 'DEATH' / at some point AFTER THEY'VE DIED)??





Here's a post I'd made recently about the various passages speaking of Israel's "future," which LIKEN IT unto a 'resurrection,' just as this Ezek37 passage [considered all together in its entire Ezek37-CONTEXT] itself does:

-- Post #208 - https://christianchat.com/threads/c...-his-2030-return-of-jesus.209327/post-5024173
 

iamsoandso

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What I am saying is the mark of the beast and the beast had nothing to do with Rome, the full or partial preterists who believe this are most likely wrong.

The zealots had their own mark that they used to mark their followers.

Yes I agree that the 1st century Rome seems to me also to not have any fulfillment of the mark from what is written in Wars 2. Do you have the source of the Zealots using an mark? Because of how the Scriptures speak of the mark effecting even the gentiles though I'm not sure if it even would fulfill this either. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/14.htm
 

GaryA

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The general point I agree with. However, the context of Revelation is concerning that time period. Even Daniel 2 agrees with the timing being 1st century.
Daniel 2:

31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. 32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, 33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. 34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. 35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. 41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

At what point in time/event/history do you see the fourth kingdom change/move/transfer from the 'legs of iron' into the 'feet part of iron and part of clay'?

How do you match all of the details of these verses to the orginal 'Roman Empire' at the time of Jesus during His First Coming when it had not yet been divided?

How could all of the parts be 'smote' and 'broken together' before the historical reality of the 'iron and clay'?
 

Cameron143

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Daniel 2:

31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. 32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, 33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. 34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. 35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. 41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

At what point in time/event/history do you see the fourth kingdom change/move/transfer from the 'legs of iron' into the 'feet part of iron and part of clay'?

How do you match all of the details of these verses to the orginal 'Roman Empire' at the time of Jesus during His First Coming when it had not yet been divided?

How could all of the parts be 'smote' and 'broken together' before the historical reality of the 'iron and clay'?
I have always enjoyed our discussions, even when we disagree, because of both the tenor and content. This particular thread is no longer, in my opinion, a place where that can occur. If you would like to continue the discussion I am glad to do that elsewhere.
 

GaryA

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What time frame do you believe is being considered in Revelation 5 when there is none found worthy to open the scroll and then there is a lamb seated on a throne who is worthy?
First of all, nowhere in the passage does it indicate [Christ] actually seated on a throne.

I do not believe the "Christ was not there - :eek: - and then He was" interpretation of the passage.

As for the time frame:

~ after the crucifixion of Christ

~ after [all of] 'us' (in the context) were redeemed "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation"

~ after [all of] 'us' have been resurrected - having "glorified bodies" - allowable to be present in heaven

~ the number of which is "ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands"

~ at a time when "every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them" could be heard saying "Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever"
 

Cameron143

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First of all, nowhere in the passage does it indicate [Christ] actually seated on a throne.

I do not believe the "Christ was not there - :eek: - and then He was" interpretation of the passage.

As for the time frame:

~ after the crucifixion of Christ

~ after [all of] 'us' (in the context) were redeemed "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation"

~ after [all of] 'us' have been resurrected - having "glorified bodies" - allowable to be present in heaven

~ the number of which is "ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands"

~ at a time when "every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them" could be heard saying "Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever"
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
 

GaryA

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There will never be a last soul in practical terms, there will always me another and another.

I cannot imagine a point when the Gospel and the working of the Holy Spirit would not have the power to save.
I believe you have misunderstood my question.

In 'practical' terms, there will be a "last soul saved" before Christ returns - there is/are no two ways about it - it is, by definition, inescapable.

In 'practical' terms, we are talking about souls actually being saved rather than the power to save being ever-present for that purpose.