Ten Commandments

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Nov 11, 2018
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#61
There are 613 commandments in the Law of Moses. Either we need to be keeping all of those laws as Christians in order to be saved or not. So which is it?
Where did you get the idea that you need to keep all of those laws or none of those laws?
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
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#62
I will never understand this debate.

Of course, throughout all generations we should take time weekly to stop striving in all ways and be still and know He is God, taking time to honor God through stillness is something hard to do for us all. I think that is why. He knows that and encourages us to do it anyway. He makes it clear, though, He is our rest and that if folks need to work, like doctors and nurses, He is not legalistic about it.

Like with every other thing He tells us, it is rooted in love and sabbath is a heart thing. Most of all, everything He does for His purposes is also for our well-being. He loves us so much.

I get that He is a God of balance, of the bridge between Love and Justice. It just makes sense to me that He wants us to take time to rest and honor Him.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#63
Where did you get the idea that you need to keep all of those laws or none of those laws?
I'm being rhetorical and have the answer I believe already. I believe in salvation through grace and sincere faith in Christ. I am just curious what legalists have to say about the 613 commandments and why some commandments are cherry-picked for keeping, while some are ignored.
 
M

Michael29

Guest
#64
I think your logic "Therefore no Gentile/Believer is obligated to any of the 10 commandments or 613 Commandments." does not bear up to the scriptures.

When the Israelites fled from Egypt after the Passover, many non-Israelites fled with them. If one is a Gentile, isn't he/she a non-Israelite?

Exo_12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Num 15:15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.

Num_15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Num 15:26 And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.

Num_15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

In the end, we find that the New Jerusalem that comes down from heaven has 12 gates, each one made from a pearl. On each of the 12 gates is the 12 names of tribes of Israel. Where is the gate for the Gentiles?

Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Rev 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.


Deu 29:14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;
Deu 29:15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Hey! Good Afternoon! Thanks for the reply!!

Wow awesome scriptures! Let me help:

Yes many Egyptians did join. At that moment they had to convert and if they didn’t, they could not partake of the commandments given. 613 (not 10).

Now I see the English you pulled out but I’ll show you in Hebrew it’s original language because it helps a lot.

“Stranger” in all your points is (Ger - Gimmel Reish). Get in Hebrew means “proselyte” (convert). But there are two types of Ger’s: Ger Toshav which is a Righteous Noachide Resident and a Ger Tzedik a convert, this one is a convert. How do we know?
12:48... When the Ger soujourns ... each of his males shall be circumcised (converted). And NO UNCIRCUMCISED can eat or it (Ger Toshav-Noachide). There is one law for the Jew and the Ger (convert) (or else this text makes no sense).

So yes One Law for the Israelite. Hence why Acts specifically tells Non Jews Believers DO NOT CIRCUMCISE (the yoke of torah 613 commandments) is too heavy! Just do the basic 7 (Acts 15:21).

Yes are both in a Christ as long as hey believe but just like men and women have different roles clearly, so do Jews and Non jews and we are one big family!!! One day God willing!!!
 
Mar 25, 2020
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#65
Hey! Good Afternoon! Thanks for the reply!!

Wow awesome scriptures! Let me help:

Yes many Egyptians did join. At that moment they had to convert and if they didn’t, they could not partake of the commandments given. 613 (not 10).

Now I see the English you pulled out but I’ll show you in Hebrew it’s original language because it helps a lot.

“Stranger” in all your points is (Ger - Gimmel Reish). Get in Hebrew means “proselyte” (convert). But there are two types of Ger’s: Ger Toshav which is a Righteous Noachide Resident and a Ger Tzedik a convert, this one is a convert. How do we know?
12:48... When the Ger soujourns ... each of his males shall be circumcised (converted). And NO UNCIRCUMCISED can eat or it (Ger Toshav-Noachide). There is one law for the Jew and the Ger (convert) (or else this text makes no sense).

So yes One Law for the Israelite. Hence why Acts specifically tells Non Jews Believers DO NOT CIRCUMCISE (the yoke of torah 613 commandments) is too heavy! Just do the basic 7 (Acts 15:21).

Yes are both in a Christ as long as hey believe but just like men and women have different roles clearly, so do Jews and Non jews and we are one big family!!! One day God willing!!!
This is getting good!!
You add wisdom with proof ! The Rabbis call me Noahide, the Gentile. Some run the other way when
they see me, because I brag of my Rabbi being the greatest of all time, He beat them up at age 12, .THey
could not answer His questions remember. Rabbi Yashuah Moshiach taught Torah.

The Rabbis are deathly afraid of Rabbi Yahshua Moshiach and as a Jew you are not allowed to read the NT.
Christians are not allowed to read the OT, although it is never said openly, it is implied, all that Jewish Law.
Thanks for that reply!
Sin cerely
Elvispelvis888
 
Mar 25, 2020
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#66
Where did you get the idea that you need to keep all of those laws or none of those laws?
Zinger Zinger Zinger beauty, They just make stuff up to puff themselves up !! Fighting foolish old wives tales in the last days!
Many thanks G...
 
Mar 25, 2020
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#67
It is imperative to clear the air because the verse I use in the opening is not talking about the Sabbath it is talking about the seventh
day covenant hidden secretly in Hebrew for all Hebrew scripture is written in the secret bible code of seven
Prepare to have your minds blown. There are 7,777 thousand combination of seven in Torah. What ??
Let us start at the beginning,........ the first seven words add up to 49...7x7,....
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Genesis 1:1), contains over 30 different combinations of seven.

You have got to be kidding me, You are are liar, the Holy Spirit told me.

I have not begun to fight. To those with ears to hear, hang on to your bippy,

This verse has seven Hebrew words having a total of 28 letters 4 x 7. The numeric value of the three nouns "God", "heaven" and "earth" totals 777. Any number in triplicate expresses complete, ultimate or total meaning.

This can not be true,? why have I never heard this before? The OT is full of Jewish lies do not read it , the Holy Spirit told me !


Isaiah 66:4
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Because Christians condemn Torah without studying it........................

In Hebrew Eloheim , The Angels The Mighty Ones The Judges who hate mankind for the way we treat the Father and Son
for they are JEALOUS of mankind.
Yahweh is sorry He Made Mankind.

If you do not understand The Judgment seat, plagues, many who worship on Sunday dyeing . It is just a coincidence, not judgment.
A loving deity would not cause ARMAGEDDON.
We are in the seven years of tribulation, HELLO, wakey wakey He has stopped Sunday worship all over the world HELLO.

Hear ends the first sermon.
Sorry for the rant.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#68
However the words in Torah are just rules to live by thats all.
The commandments in the Torah were much more than rules to live by. They were commandments, and some of them required the death penalty for disobedience.

I'm sure that you are fully aware that you cannot obey all those commandments perfectly. And that is why we have the Law of Christ, who fulfilled the Law. So get acquainted with that Law (which incorporates the Ten Commandments).
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#69
The heavenly Father is the savior and the King, so through his Son we have have access to salvation offered by Yahweh.
The Godhead consists of one Divine Being (whose Name is Yahweh) existing as three Persons (from everlasting), the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit .. e.g. Matthew 28:19.

Therefore, God the Father is Yahweh, God the Son is Yahweh, and God the Holy Spirit is Yahweh (again, there is one God, YHWH, who exists forever as three Persons). This is what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches us (please read the Athanasian Creed, one of the church's historic creeds, at the bottom of this page).

The Father is our Savior and Lord (as you stated above), as is His Divine Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, who is Himself the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings .. e.g. Revelation 17:14.




Looking back quickly at Matthew 28:19, we are called to baptize in the "Name" of God, and God's ~singular~ Name is, "the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit".

Blessings to you in Christ!

--David
p.s. - here is a bit more about our Lord Jesus Christ, who is God from and to everlasting. He took on a second, human nature at His Incarnation for our sakes, so that He could 1. live a perfectly righteous life before His Father on our behalf
(the life that we were supposed to live before Him to be righteous), and then 2. die in our place on the Cross as the atoning sacrifice for our sins.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was ~with~ God, and the Word ~was~ God.
2 ~He~ was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.


Athanasian Creed ("catholic" means "universal" in this creed, not Roman Catholic)
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith; Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead; He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty; From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies; and shall give account of their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.


Historic Creeds and Confessions. (1997). (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Lexham Press.



 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#70
Finally, here's a little bit more about what the Trinity is, as well what it isn't :unsure: This short video also helps us understand why analogies are never able to fully/rightly explain the church's doctrine regarding this Biblical mystery (the Godhead). Enjoy :)

 
Mar 25, 2020
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#71
Finally, here's a little bit more about what the Trinity is, as well what it isn't :unsure: This short video also helps us understand why analogies are never able to fully/rightly explain the church's doctrine regarding this Biblical mystery (the Godhead). Enjoy :)

what a load of hooey