The 1 John 1:9 Lie: More New.Modern.Hyper Grace blasphemy

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coby

Guest
James 5
Confess*your*trespasses[e]*to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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These are the scriptures you gave..but they don't say any dude can do what the leaders role is in discipline.....but do what ever you want...


Mtthew 18:15-17 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
Here is the scripture and it is to Timothy...the leader....1 Timothy 5:19-20 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.




I am not making stuff up, you are the one doing that fine enough...........

This is what happens when you don't use the whole word of God and instead want to take your responsibility as a believer in Christ and pass if off as somebody else's problem.

1 Corinthians 5 is an extension from what Jesus said in Matthew 18:15-18, and that was to all believers not just leaders in the church.

Also in 1 Timothy 5:19-20 it talks about members of the congregation bringing an allegation against a elder/leader, and if two or more have come forward than the reprove or rebuke is rightfully so !!!
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
Think again, and read. It seems maybe the words are hard to digest...

And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
(Heb 12:5-11)

It has nothing to do with our upbringing...it is Scripture.
Maybe those with legalistic Church upbringings gravitate to ones like Prince, but that is like overcorrecting a wrong problem...you end up falling off the horse on the other side.

Think again about what??
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Perhaps I should add that at the time I experienced this infilling of my entire being with the Light of God's unconditional love and forgiveness (for truly that is how I experienced it, feeling it in every fiber of my being to the depths of my soul), I simply wept, for well and truly I knew how undeserving of such love I was. But that's the thing, isn't it? None of us are worthy. Now I can accept this, and understand in the greater context of what has been revealed to all of us. We are loved, and we are forgiven. Glory hallelujah! Our God is an awesome God.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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Are you actually saying that Crossnotes is the one who has the blind leading the blind? Don't you know that it is assumed that you are accusing him of that because you answered his post?

(See how ridiculous "one" can get if "one" gets too touchy about "their" reading?)
You are just being ridiculous now, please move on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wait a minute. You think you can call me out for using "you" as a general term, and then go on to tell me how to formulate my sentences, but then I am wrong to point out that a few posts later, you are doing the very same thing?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Hey crossnote, I've noticed you keep saying the Holy Spirit convicts believers of sin (around the forums/different posts). Do you mind giving me some verses?

I understand correction and chastisement, but conviction is something entirely different. Jesus does say the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin and clarifies by saying, "Because they believe not on Me." Obviously, we believe in Jesus and this verse is in reference to an unrepentant sinner in need of Jesus. The Holy Spirit is addressing unbelief.

So I am curious, what verses do you use to back up this doctrine of Holy Spirit's conviction of sin for believers? From what I understand most feelings of guilt and condemnation are from our own conscience and not from God. Even at times from the enemy, as the accuser of the brethren.

Something to point out, that I was just reading, is that our hearts can condemn us and it isn't God doing the condemning.

1 John 3:20-21King James Version (KJV)

20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
Like already discussed, He works through other believers His written word and the law written on our hearts...

preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.
(2Ti 4:2)

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
(2Ti 3:16)

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33)

You can't separate the Holy Spirit from His Word as He works through His Word.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
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James 5
Confess*your*trespasses[e]*to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
It reads "faults" and even if it were sins you're confessing to one another for the restoration of the relationship ("that you may be healed"). It is about righting our wrongs, it isn't a verse in reference to confessing our sins to God, but to fellow man. A man or woman that you have done wrong to (a fault) and are to correct for restoration.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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It is interesting to think of the two witnesses as being the Holy Spirit of God and the Word of God (do you mean Scripture, or Jesus?) Especially since in Rev 11 they are killed, and lay dead for three and a half days. Are those the same two witnesses to whom you refer?
Those who are of the flesh tend to look and judge outwardly by appearances, but the wording in the book of Revelation is very symbolic and can only be discerned by way of the Holy Spirit. For instance people tend to look at the 2 witnesses as flesh and blood men, but they tend to ignore the parts where these 2 are referred to as the 2 candlesticks and 2 Olive trees. If you take the mystery apart piece by piece you will see the 2 Olive trees feed the golden oil to feed the 7 lamps=7 spirits of God. No flesh and blood man feeds the golden oil to the 7 spirits of God.

Here is a post I wrote on it, which connects the dots in scripture to reveal the 2 faithful witnesses are God's Word and Spirit.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/107274-lords-2-witnesses-7-spirits.html

God's people are referred to as the "holy city" in scripture, as these 2 witnesses are killed inside the "holy city"(hearts and minds) of the saints by the beast who ascends out of the bottomless pit. So the imagery is of God's people being overcome and killed by the lies of the beast and is symbolized in the 2 witnesses laying in dead the streets of the "holy city", or God's people for a time, like the body of Jesus in the tomb. It was also shown in Daniel that the spirit of a lie would cast the Truth (God's Word is Truth) to the ground and trodden it under foot during this time of the lies practicing and prospering.

God's people who had God's words in their mouths are also shown as being laid to the ground, and as the street to them that trampled on them in Isaiah. This was prophesied to happen when the salt lost his savour, like the parable of the salt that lost his savour which was foretold of by Jesus.

So when you put all the pieces of the puzzle together you see the 2 witnesses lay dead for a time in the saints (holy city) until they are resurrected again after 3 and a half days. These represent the dead "in Christ" being raised up first prior to the last 7th trump. This revival and resurrection is also shown here.....

Hosea 6:2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
Those who are of the flesh tend to look and judge outwardly by appearances,
Hmmm, that's interesting because I could swear that you and some others were doing exactly that with Prince in the very thread.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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Yes we know you need to look to Jesus, Yes we know there is now no condemnation for those in Christ, yes we know you won't lose your salvation, yes we know we have been forgiven in christ, yes we know we are saints, yes we know we are God's holy ones etc etc etc..how many times do we have to tell you guys this, and yet...... never mind.


I am not or was saying you would do this. But the same question stands:

IF - you were to steal the $5 even though you are in christ, you know you are saved by grace alone/faith alone etc etc etc, would you not feel ashamed and guilty and remorseful?? I would hope you would being a believer. Considering you have greatly Displeased your Father?
Well, if you aren't discussing the topic at hand, but completely changing it, please make that known. We can't read your mind to know that you are now talking about something entirely different.

It you're deliberately stealing, then you are back living in the world where, "Yes", the Holy Spirit convicts.... because you are no longer living the life of a Believer. (A "Believer" is not just a person who said some words at a church a few years ago.)
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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Like already discussed, He works through other believers His written word and the law written on our hearts...

preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.
(2Ti 4:2)

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
(2Ti 3:16)

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33)

You can't separate the Holy Spirit from His Word as He works through His Word.
Jer 31:33 is quoted in the NT and it speaks of the Holy Spirit witnessing of this truth but it goes on and says...

Hebrews 10:15-18King James Version (KJV)

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Tell me, why do people receive that first part as an on-going reality that they walk in (the law being on their heart) but not that second part about Him not remembering our sins or iniquities anymore?
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
ROMANS 3:25.
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare His righteousness
for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

this simply means exactly what it says.....

as we begin our new journey after conversion, the Holy Spirit now teaches us that after we are reconciled
to God by the death of His Son, that much more we shall be saved by His life....another words,
He lives in order to 'make intercession' for us, that is our relationship with Christ, if we have no
Mediator, then we have no relationship.....we must learn to let Christ be our Lord, our Mediator,
for without Him interceding for us when we sin, we have sin against us and can no longer be
able to be clean in God's eyes....
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
ROMANS 3:25.
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare His righteousness
for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

this simply means exactly what it says.....

as we begin our new journey after conversion, the Holy Spirit now teaches us that after we are reconciled
to God by the death of His Son, that much more we shall be saved by His life....another words,
He lives in order to 'make intercession' for us, that is our relationship with Christ, if we have no
Mediator, then we have no relationship.....we must learn to let Christ be our Lord, our Mediator,
for without Him interceding for us when we sin, we have sin against us and can no longer be
able to be clean in God's eyes....
And ALL of your sins are in the past.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
Think again about what??
About addressing the topic seriously instead of with trollish behavior.
I can't keep going back and hold your hand to lead you through each post spelling out every item.

If you are serious then explain the unpleasant chastisement God puts us thru in Heb 12

And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
(Heb 12:5-11)


And please no cute comebacks.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
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Like already discussed, He works through other believers His written word and the law written on our hearts...

preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.
(2Ti 4:2)

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
(2Ti 3:16)

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33)

You can't separate the Holy Spirit from His Word as He works through His Word.
Also, you didn't give a verse that straight on addressed the question. Is there a verse that explicitly states that the Holy Spirit convicts us, believers, of sin? You gave a roundabout answer, but reproof, rebuke, and correct are not the same as convicting. Plus they are done in love, as a side note.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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Thats right, because you are a born again new creation in Christ, God has fixed your sin problem forever. Stop right there and you will have it.
You know - we don't differ much in what we believe - what does it hurt for people to confess, acknowledge their sins? What's the BIG DEAL?
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
About addressing the topic seriously instead of with trollish behavior.
I can't keep going back and hold your hand to lead you through each post spelling out every item.
If you are serious then explain the unpleasant chastisement God puts us thru in Heb 12

And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
(Heb 12:5-11)


And please no cute comebacks.
Sorry, if I'm not meeting your standards for what is a proper response.

Since you offered no further clarification I will just go with my gut and say that it appears that your image of God is of One who kicks His children when they are down.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,883
29,274
113
Those who are of the flesh tend to look and judge outwardly by appearances, but the wording in the book of Revelation is very symbolic and can only be discerned by way of the Holy Spirit. For instance people tend to look at the 2 witnesses as flesh and blood men, but they tend to ignore the parts where these 2 are referred to as the 2 candlesticks and 2 Olive trees. If you take the mystery apart piece by piece you will see the 2 Olive trees feed the golden oil to feed the 7 lamps=7 spirits of God. No flesh and blood man feeds the golden oil to the 7 spirits of God.

Here is a post I wrote on it, which connects the dots in scripture to reveal the 2 faithful witnesses are God's Word and Spirit.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/107274-lords-2-witnesses-7-spirits.html

God's people are referred to as the "holy city" in scripture, as these 2 witnesses are killed inside the "holy city"(hearts and minds) of the saints by the beast who ascends out of the bottomless pit. So the imagery is of God's people being overcome and killed by the lies of the beast and is symbolized in the 2 witnesses laying in dead the streets of the "holy city", or God's people for a time, like the body of Jesus in the tomb. It was also shown in Daniel that the spirit of a lie would cast the Truth (God's Word is Truth) to the ground and trodden it under foot during this time of the lies practicing and prospering.

God's people who had God's words in their mouths are also shown as being laid to the ground, and as the street to them that trampled on them in Isaiah. This was prophesied to happen when the salt lost his savour, like the parable of the salt that lost his savour which was foretold of by Jesus.

So when you put all the pieces of the puzzle together you see the 2 witnesses lay dead for a time in the saints (holy city) until they are resurrected again after 3 and a half days. These represent the dead "in Christ" being raised up first prior to the last 7th trump. This revival and resurrection is also shown here.....

Hosea 6:2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
Thank you very much for explaining :)