The Absurdity of ‘Born a Sinner’

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Feb 11, 2012
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I was truly amazed by just how much damage the original sin teaching is causing in professing Christianity today, where many perverted groups who claim to be of Christ, are using this sin nature excuse to continue to induldge themselves in this perversion, and giving permission to the lukewarm masses to sin with impunity because we all are sin machines unable to stop!

The Absurdity of ‘Born a Sinner’
This is a long and jagged road with thousands of detours along the way. But they all lead to the same destination …. Perdition! The fallacy of human depravity has many forms in the minds of ‘believers’. Some see it as an ‘inbred nature’ that enviably brings about their sinful behavior. Others called it simply my ‘sinful nature’ and blame it on every addiction known to man. The scholars dwell into the ‘depravity’ angle and conclude that all mankind is born in a state of total degeneracy wholly disposed to wickedness and cut off from God.
Professed believers don’t really like to think of themselves as ‘totally depraved’ but they do key in on the inbred sin myth as their perfect excuse for wrong doing. That makes this teaching the Central core doctrine in the minds of supposed Christians and totally facilitates the Substitutionary plan of Salvation. But you really have to go out onto a limb to find support for it in the Bible. The main reason for this is because it ‘defies’ Logic. Man Cannot be ‘Born’ a sinner, without the ability to obey God’s commands and also possess free will to choose between right and wrong. One cancels out the other. If I can CHOOSE then I can OBEY, which also translates into making a conscience decision to STOP sinning.
God told Cain: ‘If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” Gen4:7
Cain was born from the loins of Adam AFTER the expulsion from the Garden, which would give him the ‘awful’ sinful nature most people believe in. However God gave him a definite Choice between good and bad. Of course most Scholars would claim that Cain was either ‘elect’ or had the ability to make a right choice. YET this passage contradicts them in both directions! This passage PROVES beyond any shadow of a doubt that man not only has a Choice between right and wrong but also the ability to REASON with God. Isa1:16-20 appeals to sense of determination:
Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; Put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes. Cease to do evil, Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow. Come now, and let us reason together, Says the Lord,
Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool. If you are willing and obedient, You shall eat the good of the land; But if you refuse and rebel, You shall be devoured by the sword For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.
Take a break from your daily sinning in thought, word and deed and try to analyze this passage. God is appealing to your ability to reason; CLEAN up your act, amend your evil ways, LEARN to do good!!! Despite what has been pounded into your brains about addiction and sin natures, you know DEEP DOWN that people are fully capable of beating their addictions. Every day people stop drinking, smoking, taking drugs or living a life of uncontrollable lust. It’s not easy, of course, BUT it is possible …. and WITHOUT the supposed assistance of the Holy Spirit. (that professed believers who live in these additions claim to have!)
Yes among ‘believers’ its’ sin, sin and more sin, and every excuse in the world to absolve them of wrong. In all matters of life they exercise their God given free will to make life changing decisions, but when it comes to Obeying God (as in the Isaiah passage) they are immediately rendered inoperative. THINK about it ….. be honest for a change. HOW can what you believe be in line with the Bible when ‘ceasing to do evil’ is considered a ‘Works’ Salvation? The following summarizes the great injury sin nature teaching has done in the minds of people exposed to it. Here’s quote from one deeply addicted to fleshly corruption who has reasoned to the logical conclusion that ‘believing sinners’ have no place to Judge others no matter how vile the sin.
“I am a lesbian and I want to ask some questions that's been on my mind I wasn't sure to ask them but I thought well only way to find out is to ask so here I go. People say it is wrong to be a homosexual but is it wrong for them to worship God? I lost my religion years back and God helped me back to his path but my sexuality hasn't changed so does this mean that God is ok with it? We all sin everyday even when we ask for forgiveness and we sin and sin and sin again and again, but as people say it is a sin to be homosexual but the people who say this are sinners also so why do homosexuals have to get judged by them and get attacked and get told change your ways?”

Truly, this only I have found: That God made man upright, But they have sought out many schemes. Ecc7:29

‘Upright’ in this passage is like the opposite of perverse. It means: Straight, level, correct, Right and pleasing. And sin Cannot be transferred from a father to his off-spring. ‘The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son’ Ezk18:20 ‘The soul who sins shall die!’ Therefore it’s commonsense logic that neither can we bare the guilt of Adam because he disobeyed God in the Garden or imagine that somehow his sin caused man to be born defective with a mysterious ‘Dual Nature’. A person’s addiction to sin came about by their own personal choices to gratify the lust of the flesh instead of obey God. That’s why the Bible says: ‘If you live according to the flesh you will die’ Rom8:6.
Not that ‘flesh’ of itself is corrupt or inbred with a kind of malady, but the DESIRES of the flesh have ‘Grown’ corrupt by constant indulgence in wrong doings.
Claiming that some ‘nature’ lurks within your flesh that causes you to sin, is like jesting that the ‘devil made me to it!’ But isn’t that EXACTLY what the absurdity of inbred sin has done in the minds of people? Giving them an iron clad excuse to pass off their responsibility to do what is right! When even a confessed ‘lesbian’ can call you out on such a pretense isn’t it time to fess up to God and put the blame where it belongs? (on yourself!) www.standingthegap.org
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#2
Romans 5:12-21
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

By the obedience of one shall many be made righteous...

Uh-oh...

I guess we all have to rely on the One, the Lord Jesus Christ. That is if we want to be made righteous before Him...

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#3
What amazes me is people like Tommy here who use personal righteousness in order to excuse his sin. Thinking he is different than the very people he is trying to condemn. When in reality, he is no different. Both come from pride. On refuses to admit he is helpless and hopeless. The other refuses to admit they are sinners and the things they are doing are bad. in other words. they refuse to admit they are helpless and hopeless. which is why niether of them have repented.

Licentiousness and legalism comes from the same mold. They just can not see it. And use each other to excuse their own refusal to repent and give it ALL to Christ.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
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#4
...I guess we all have to rely on the One, the Lord Jesus Christ. That is if we want to be made righteous before Him...
Right. But you'll never be as "holy" as the "holiness" crowd. They're always holier than thou.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#5
EternallyGrateful, how do I like your post one thousand times over?

Yes, Tommy, original sin has been used as an excuse by some to keep on sinning and doing their own thing and no, that's not a biblical concept. All the same, how about you back off and do some self-reflection before you lambast each and every person in your 'zeal' for the Lord?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#6
Tommy until you become perfect and obey his commands without fault you cannot say such things about other people. You do not know them or the pain and troubles they go through. The words and teachings you preach are harsh and cold, you don't teach anything but sin and false doctrine. why not teach more about love and salvation?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#7
Romans 5:12-21
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

By the obedience of one shall many be made righteous...

Uh-oh...

I guess we all have to rely on the One, the Lord Jesus Christ. That is if we want to be made righteous before Him...

AMEN

Revelation 4:11
“Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.”

~

love you gramps
 
Jul 12, 2012
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#8
I don't even understand the purpose of the argument for or against in the first place.
The argument itself seems contrary to common sense.
And negates the idea of an age of accountability. Curiously, I wonder how many adhere to both doctrines in self contradiction?
Best I can make, is that some people thrive on claiming we are doomed to hell even as an unwashed newborn. I suppose to reinforce the fact that all need salvation.
When all one really has to do, if they want to argue we are all doomed to hell, or to argue that we all need salvation, is point out the fact that we all chose to sin at some point.

It doesn't really matter about our state when we are born.
We don't actually sin until we know we sin.

Even at the age of 3 when I can vividly remember transgressing my mother's "law" not to look at naked people, I still had no concept whatsoever of transgression, just the question "why mama? why?"
To which the only answer given is "because it's bad", a ridiculous lie she inherited in the same manner.
Even worse comes the next person saying "because you'll go to hell for it"

"Why mama? Why?"
Born completely innocent people. Please don't beat yourselves up.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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#9
I don't believe we a born sinners, I believe we are born innocent and I defy anyone to show me a baby who has told lies, stolen, committed adultery, worshipped false gods etc. etc.

What I do believe is that we are born with a nature that is capable of committing sin and sooner or later we will. Fortunately we have a loving God who has made provision for this and when it comes to the Great Judgement day we can rest assured it will be OUR heart that is known to the Lord and we will not be judged on the hearts of Adam and Eve or anyone else.

God bless, PS.
 
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Dec 26, 2012
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#10
But on the other hand does one have to teach a two year old to be selfish,defiant,destructive and violent or is it that one has to correct these things that they already know how to do without anyone teaching them?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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#11
But on the other hand does one have to teach a two year old to be selfish,defiant,destructive and violent or is it that one has to correct these things that they already know how to do without anyone teaching them?
Did you not read my post Sarah?

"What I do believe is that we are born with a nature that is capable of committing sin and sooner or later we will. Fortunately we have a loving God who has made provision for this and when it comes to the Great Judgement day we can rest assured it will be OUR heart that is known to the Lord and we will not be judged on the hearts of Adam and Eve or anyone else." (PS)
 
Dec 26, 2012
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#12
I did read it,I think we end up debating things that in the long run do not really matter. None of us can see what is in a babies heart and whether we are born that way or not we can not use it for justification.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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#13
I did read it,I think we end up debating things that in the long run do not really matter. None of us can see what is in a babies heart and whether we are born that way or not we can not use it for justification.
Granted we are all going to sin big time if we add up everything we do after coming into the knowledge of right and wrong, or the knowledge of the tree of good and evil, (this is an OT parable), which tells us we will know right from wrong when the time comes and can expect to be punished for our wrong doing and thrust out of heaven (the Garden of Eden).

Fortunately God has made a way of escape by becoming the second Adam and paying for Adam's (Mankinds) sin. :) This is why Jesus spoke of himself as the son of man. Jesus is the First and the last and in this way the sins for the whole of humankind from the first Adam to the Last Adam are paid for and that's what is so amazing.
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#14
Did you not read my post Sarah?

"What I do believe is that we are born with a nature that is capable of committing sin and sooner or later we will. Fortunately we have a loving God who has made provision for this and when it comes to the Great Judgement day we can rest assured it will be OUR heart that is known to the Lord and we will not be judged on the hearts of Adam and Eve or anyone else." (PS)
hi PS:
welcome to CC:)
what is it in our hearts that will be known on the Great Judgement Day?
what determines the verdict of not guilty/justified?
zone
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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#15
hi PS:
welcome to CC:)
what is it in our hearts that will be known on the Great Judgement Day?
what determines the verdict of not guilty/justified?
zone
What will God see in our heart? You remember the parable of the sheep and the goats, the goats will be sent away because the Lord knew them not, so first of all we need to believe in Him, Abraham and the Patriarchs had faith and we are told that if we believe in Him we shall be saved. After that hopefully the Lord will see a loving heart and a desire to live a holy life and a life that is committed to him and seeks to please him. The Lord does the rest.

You know this anyway :D
God bless.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#16
What will God see in our heart? You remember the parable of the sheep and the goats, the goats will be sent away because the Lord knew them not, so first of all we need to believe in Him, Abraham and the Patriarchs had faith and we are told that if we believe in Him we shall be saved. After that hopefully the Lord will see a loving heart and a desire to live a holy life and a life that is committed to him and seeks to please him. The Lord does the rest.

You know this anyway :D
God bless.
thanks....how do you know i know?
i was just asking:D

once again, welcome.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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#17
thanks....how do you know i know?
i was just asking:D

once again, welcome.
Your a born again Christian, I can tell.

Thanks for the welcome, speak to you again later. :)
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#18
Ecclesiastes 7:20 KJV
King James Version
For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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#19
Ecclesiastes 7:20 KJV
King James Version
For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
They were wicked weren't they, the same as in Noah's day and therefore not righteous which is the same word (H6662).

Justification is a singular act in which God declares an unrighteous individual to be righteous because of the work of Jesus. Justification is granted to all who have faith and is a gift from God. (compare Ephesians 2:8)
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#20
Right. But you'll never be as "holy" as the "holiness" crowd. They're always holier than thou.
Sounds rather stereotypical, doesn't it? Am I glad you're not sitting on the throne on judgement day!