The BAC must endure in the faith to the end of life to be saved

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K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#61
Nope you are reading into the scriptures not reading out of them. You are attempting to prop up unsound doctrine by injecting into the passage something that is not there.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I am not putting something that is not there into the scripture.

Matthew 10 is the commissioning of the apostles/disciples to spread the gospel, which is still ongoing to today.
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#62
Can a carnal Christian have assurance of their salvation? Nope.
Can a Spirit filled Believer have assurance of their salvation? Yes! And without any doubt!
God is not fickle, He is faithful. He does not disown those He has adopted, nor does He divorce His Bride.
The question one must ask themself is: are you trusting Him, and living in a way that shows that you trust Him, or does your life and actions display that you do not trust Him.
Salvation is not something that can be gained, and then lost,
but the message of Salvation can surely be rejected, even by people who claimed to believe it. But claiming belief is not the same as actually having it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#63
Here we go again folks with his inability to read and respond accurately.

My "co-operative" efforts gets translated into it's "all" my efforts.

Jason, enough is enough ... you post like
the e_g ... untruthful postings!
Except while he lies, you are just careless (I hope).

Please do NOT expect any more replies from me.
I am not lieing, Your the one lieing to yourself.

A co-operative effort is still a work. Just because you change the name of it does not mean it is something else. your still working to save yourself. vs working because you are saved and because you have faith (as a result of)

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#64
As for paul considering himself to be disqualified of something.

He spoke of himself as an apostle. a teacher. If he is a hypocrite, he disqualifies himself as a teacher, because who is going to listen to him?

He was not speaking in terms of disqualifying himself as a child of God. it would go against his own teaching of salvation by faith alone.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#65
Do I believe in works to earn salvation? No I don't, and I have stated that over and over again.

Do I believe that works are a part of a believers life, and go hand and hand with showing one is saved unto salvation? YES

Do I believe that if a person disobey's the Lord by not following His commandments then they are not saved? YES
First, God does the work in you. It's not you. A believer yields to God and surrenders their life to Him and then God does the work in them. We do not share credit for what God does within us. For the Elders cast down their crowns before Jesus. Also, see 1 Corinthians 15:10. Second, if you believe you are not obeying all of God's Laws (Which I am sure includes the Sabbath and feeding the poor) then you are not saved. In other words, you have to put work in at earning your salvation. For if you do not do these things, you are not saved. Okay. Think about this. When you first accepted Christ, did you have to immediately go out and feed the poor that day to know that you were saved? Now, I am not advocating Antinomianism (Where there is no moral Law for the believer, like abiding in unrepentant sins such as murder, theft, lust, drunkenness, idolatry, etc.). Nor am I denying a believer will never help the poor within their life time, either.

We both agree on the "Results" for a beleiver but we do not agree on the "Cause."

What I am suggesting to you is that a believer is changed spiritually whereby they will do those things.

For God's Elect will not live in habitual sin. If they slip up, they have God's grace to fall back upon so as to overcome any sin they might be facing. They get cleansed by God's grace and not by doing a particular work.
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
#66
Do I believe that if a person disobeys the Lord by not following His commandments
then they are not saved? YES
Do you mean in open rebellion, rejecting what is known should be done?

IMO, one who tries hard to obey, but fails occasionally, followed by sincere repentance
... gradually improves his/her obedience to the will of God ... and is on the way to heaven.
This person has the correct heart attitude, which is pleasing to the Lord.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#67
[h=1]Hebrews 3:18-19[/h]18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.



Disobedience is unbelief, so disobeying to do what the Lord command and taught is unbelief in Him.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#68
First, God does the work in you. It's not you. A believer yields to God and surrenders their life to Him and then God does the work in them. We do not share credit for what God does within us. For the Elders cast down their crowns before Jesus. Also, see 1 Corinthians 15:10. Second, if you believe you are not obeying all of God's Laws (Which I am sure includes the Sabbath and feeding the poor) then you are not saved. In other words, you have to put work in at earning your salvation. For if you do not do these things, you are not saved. Okay. Think about this. When you first accepted Christ, did you have to immediately go out and feed the poor that day to know that you were saved? Now, I am not advocating Antinomianism (Where there is no moral Law for the believer, like abiding in unrepentant sins such as murder, theft, lust, drunkenness, idolatry, etc.). Nor am I denying a believer will never help the poor within their life time, either.

We both agree on the "Results" for a beleiver but we do not agree on the "Cause."

What I am suggesting to you is that a believer is changed spiritually whereby they will do those things.

For God's Elect will not live in habitual sin. If they slip up, they have God's grace to fall back upon so as to overcome any sin they might be facing. They get cleansed by God's grace and not by doing a particular work.

Yet Hebrews chapters 3 and 6 show that those who have become partakers in Christ and have received the Holy Spirit can still be disobedient, and return to a life of willful sins which has no salvation.
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
#69
Nope you (kenneth) are reading into the scriptures not reading out of them.
You are attempting to prop up unsound doctrine by injecting into the passage something that is not there.
Care to tell us what we are reading into JUST ONE of the OP passages that is not there?
Care to tell us what we are injecting into JUST ONE of the OP passages that is not there?

JUST ONE ... please explain!
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#70
Yet Hebrews chapters 3 and 6 show that those who have become partakers in Christ and have received the Holy Spirit can still be disobedient, and return to a life of willful sins which has no salvation.
As I said before. There are believers who have no root in God's Word. This is why they fall away. They received the Word with joy. However, God's Elect, His Chosen, or those who have let God and His Word taken root within their hearts will produce much fruit. Nowhere do we see a great man of God who is great in the faith fall from the Lord. Abraham and the other great heroes of faith did not fall away from the faith. You are selling fear and not hope, dear sir. Jesus can save a person RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW apart from the deeds of the Law; And God is able to keep those who truly want to love God. Are we going to be perfect? No. But by God's grace we can be made perfect. Not on the basis of our righteousness but on His righteousness.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#71
As I said before. There are believers who have no root in God's Word. This is why they fall away. They received the Word with joy. However, God's Elect, His Chosen, or those who have let God and His Word taken root within their hearts will produce much fruit. Nowhere do we see a great man of God who is great in the faith fall from the Lord. Abraham and the other great heroes of faith did not fall away from the faith. You are selling fear and not hope, dear sir. Jesus can save a person RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW apart from the deeds of the Law; And God is able to keep those who truly want to love God. Are we going to be perfect? No. But by God's grace we can be made perfect. Not on the basis of our righteousness but on His righteousness.

I am not teaching fear.
I am teaching the truth out of His word, and not watering it down like some do. Lord Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, and definitely James did not water it down. They all wrote and preached warnings to believers about how they are to walk, what to abstain from, and not to return to a life of willful sin.
I am not going to take and throw those same warnings out the window, and not preach them to others. They sure didn't, so we shouldn't either. I do preach hope to though, by showing the grace, love, mercy, and forgiveness that He has shown us, and then tell how we are to show that same respect to others. Paul always preached salvation, and then gave warnings along with it. James, his entire epistle is one of conviction toward believers.
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
#72
But by God's grace we can be made perfect.
Not on the basis of our righteousness but on His righteousness.
You are rejecting more and more Scriptures, on more and more topics!

Want AGAIN to see and reject all of the Scriptures which say:

Believers must practice righteousness to actually prove they are righteous!

Obviously, believers must continue on with righteousness ...
with His righteousness as the foundation, pattern, example, etc.!
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#73
Care to tell us what we are reading into JUST ONE of the OP passages that is not there?
Care to tell us what we are injecting into JUST ONE of the OP passages that is not there?

JUST ONE ... please explain!

This was his reply to me because he is one of those who believe Matthew 10 refers only to the tribulation period.
When it clearly shows this was when Jesus was commissioning the original apostles/disciples to spread the gospel out back then.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#74
As I said before. There are believers who have no root in God's Word. This is why they fall away. They received the Word with joy. However, God's Elect, His Chosen, or those who have let God and His Word taken root within their hearts will produce much fruit. Nowhere do we see a great man of God who is great in the faith fall from the Lord. Abraham and the other great heroes of faith did not fall away from the faith. You are selling fear and not hope, dear sir. Jesus can save a person RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW apart from the deeds of the Law; And God is able to keep those who truly want to love God. Are we going to be perfect? No. But by God's grace we can be made perfect. Not on the basis of our righteousness but on His righteousness.
There is a difference between a person having a spurious faith and or in having the Spirit with no real root.

For example: Saul once had the Spirit, and the Spirit departed from Saul and he committed suicide. This is a spurious faith. This was not a deep faith or faith that had root. However, David sinned horribly. But he repented of his sins. Why? Because he was a man after God's own heart. He had root. It was not that David was a perfect law keeper his entire life. It was in the fact that David threw himself down before God's mercy.

For who was more justified in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee? The Tax Collector who threw himself down before God's mercy? Or the Pharisee who thought he was righteous and better than the Tax Collector? (See Luke 18:9-14).
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#75
You are rejecting more and more Scriptures, on more and more topics!

Want AGAIN to see and reject all of the Scriptures which say:

Believers must practice righteousness to actually prove they are righteous!

Obviously, believers must continue on with righteousness ...
with His righteousness as the foundation, pattern, example, etc.!
Who are we proving our righteousness to? Show the verse, and use context.
 
S

Sophia

Guest
#76
So much confusion about personal assurance vs salvation.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#77
Do you mean in open rebellion, rejecting what is known should be done?

IMO, one who
tries hard to obey, but fails occasionally, followed by sincere repentance
... gradually improves his/her obedience to the will of God ... and is on the way to heaven.
This person has the correct heart attitude, which is pleasing to the Lord.

yep. the pharisees did this, as did a man names saul..

How good did it do them, You do not think they were sincere?

trying of your own power will get you nowhere, you need the power of God.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#78
Hebrews 3:18-19

18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.



Disobedience is unbelief, so disobeying to do what the Lord command and taught is unbelief in Him.

that leaves us with a problem then.

Since all of us sin, then we all disobey, does that mean we all do not believe. Or at what point does disobedience equal unbelief, and what point does obedience equal belief?


or, said a different way, How good is good enough, how bad is too bad?
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#79
I am not teaching fear.
I am teaching the truth out of His word, and not watering it down like some do. Lord Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, and definitely James did not water it down. They all wrote and preached warnings to believers about how they are to walk, what to abstain from, and not to return to a life of willful sin.
I am not going to take and throw those same warnings out the window, and not preach them to others. They sure didn't, so we shouldn't either. I do preach hope to though, by showing the grace, love, mercy, and forgiveness that He has shown us, and then tell how we are to show that same respect to others. Paul always preached salvation, and then gave warnings along with it. James, his entire epistle is one of conviction toward believers.
It's not about preaching hope sometimes as if it was a side dish. It's about always preaching hope. For hope is our main course. Grace is there for the most horrible sinner and or for the believer who has gotten caught up in habitual sin. There is hope and not fear. A person get right with God not trying to follow a "To Do List." They get right with God thru repentance so as to receive His mercy and grace. That is salvation.
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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#80
I can say the same to you, dear sir.
Also, although I have forgiven you, you have verbally attacked me in calling me names.
First of all you assumptions are incorrect...go read every post I have made and when it has been proven to me that I am missing the mark I adjust my view and acknowledge truth....

Second, your claim of spiritual maturity and knowledge is contradicted by your ability to be easily offended.

Third, what you have said does not change the fact that you will consistently reject truth, words in context, Greek words and verses in context that teach contrary to some of your beliefs.

Fourth, when you have said something biblical I have (liked) it and even stated that I agree with you.....

So......Jason......you still have no ability to take the heat and or constructive criticism and truth about how you really are....!