The Best Church for You - By Brother James L. Melton

[ChosenbyHim]

well I see it this way, after being sorry for mny sinful ways and I ask for salvation from God through christ, I recieve it from God right then and there it is done. God did it all

Romans 3:21[ Righteousness Through Faith ] But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

Romans 3:22This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,
Romans 3:27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.
Romans 3:28For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

So it is not for me to stop it is for God for me to agree with God that my nature that I repented of is not good for me. therfore I quit going to bars as in being a drunkard, I quit fornicating, from hurting myself and others, all in agreeing with God that this new life is better for me than that old one that only gave temporary satisfaction
So in essence I by Faith in God's cross, I give up what I think I need at the moment for what I need in the long run
Hope that helps in ones new walk, God and you having a personal relationship, seeing all things from God'soint of view, reneweing our minds to God's truth, looking through and from God's vantage point, that teaches us to say no to harming self or anyone else

Homewardbound, Absolutely, you see true repentance leads to salvation. Once a person comes to God as a sinner seeking mercy and they call upon the Name of the Lord Jesus, that person is saved Once and For All. After that he needs to be assured of His position in Christ and that he is Eternally Secure. And of course there are good works that a Christian will do that are meet for repentance, but it is not that he is doing those works to keep his salvation, or to stay saved, he is simply doing those works because he is saved. It is a direct result of his new nature.


4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. - Ephesians 2:4-22 (King James Bible)


2 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
17 Yea, and if I be offered upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I joy, and rejoice with you all.
18 For the same cause also do ye joy, and rejoice with me.
19 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.
20 For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.
21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.
22 But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.
23 Him therefore I hope to send presently, so soon as I shall see how it will go with me.
24 But I trust in the Lord that I also myself shall come shortly.
25 Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants.
26 For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick.
27 For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.
28 I sent him therefore the more carefully, that, when ye see him again, ye may rejoice, and that I may be the less sorrowful.
29 Receive him therefore in the Lord with all gladness; and hold such in reputation:
30 Because for the work of Christ he was nigh unto death, not regarding his life, to supply your lack of service toward me. - Philippians 2:1-30 (King James Bible)

 

[ChosenbyHim]

without the doctrine of the trinity you wouldn't even know whose word the bible is...

Without the word of God, we would have never gotten the doctrine of the Trinity. It is from the pure word of God, that we got the doctrine of the Godhead and of the trinity.

and the modern bibles very clearly proclaim the deity and sinlessness of christ...and the virgin birth...and everything else... holding cultish 'king james only' beliefs is not a requirement for understanding true doctrine...in fact many members of king james only cults teach false doctrines...

No, the modern versions do not clearly proclaim the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. The modern bible perversions attack the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ:

Subtil attack on the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ in the modern versions:
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: btext, colspan: 2"]
New International Version (©2011)
Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.New Living Translation (©2007)
Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: Christ was revealed in a human body and vindicated by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and announced to the nations. He was believed in throughout the world and taken to heaven in glory.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.


Clear rendering showing Jesus Christ's deity:


King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Another subtil attack on Jesus Christ's deity in the modern versions:


[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: btext, colspan: 2"]
New International Version (©2011)
He said, "Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods."New Living Translation (©2007)
"Look!" Nebuchadnezzar shouted. "I see four men, unbound, walking around in the fire unharmed! And the fourth looks like a god!"
English Standard Version (©2001)
He answered and said, “But I see four men unbound, walking in the midst of the fire, and they are not hurt; and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods.”
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
He said, "Look! I see four men loosed and walking about in the midst of the fire without harm, and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods!"

The true Biblical rendering of Daniel 3:25:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

The Modern bible versions claim that Jesus sinned when He got angry:


New International Version (©2011)
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister (???) will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
New Living Translation (©2007)
But I say, if you are even angry with someone, (???) you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell.
English Standard Version (©2001)
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother(???) will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother(???) shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


The modern versions are missing a very, very important phrase in their text. Let's see what that phrase is:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

The phrase which the modern versions left out was: without a cause. It is not a sin to be angry. But it is a sin to be angry without a cause.

And since the modern perversions remove the phrase: Without a Cause.
They turn Jesus into a sinner in Mark 3:5!


[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: btext, colspan: 2"]
New International Version (©2011)
He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
New Living Translation (©2007)
He looked around at them angrily and was deeply saddened by their hard hearts. Then he said to the man, "Hold out your hand." So the man held out his hand, and it was restored!English Standard Version (©2001)
And he looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, and said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was restored.New American Standard Bible (©1995)
After looking around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, He said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." And he stretched it out, and his hand was restored.

But in the King James Bible, while Jesus became angry, He had a righteous cause for being angry. So the deity of Jesus Christ is clearly protected in the Authorized Version.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

No matter what the modern versions claim, Jesus Christ did not sin when He got angry. Jesus Christ had a cause for His anger. And in reading the context of that passage of Scripture, it can be said that it was the hardness of the people's hearts that was the cause for Jesus' anger. So once again, we see another clear example of where Jesus Christ's deity is exalted and honoured in the time tested Authorized King James Bible.


Now how about Micah 5:2? Let's see what the modern perversions do this time to our Lord and Saviour:

New International Version (©2011)
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old,from ancient times."New Living Translation (©2007)
But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, are only a small village among all the people of Judah. Yet a ruler of Israel will come from you, one whose origins are from the distant past.English Standard Version (©2001)
But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days.

Now this time in the New American Standard, it seems in this verse that they did not attack Jesus' everlasting nature.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity."

Micah 5:2 really says this:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Oh and there is one other thing you should know Rachel in regard to the New American Standard,
and that is the New American Standard claims that God was deceived by the Children of Israel in Psalm 78:36:

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But they deceived Him with their mouth And lied to Him with their tongue. So do not trust the New American Standard either. It is just another Satanic counterfeit.

Also, Daniel Wallace's whacky NET Bible Version also got it wrong here:

NET Bible (©2006)
But they deceived him with their words, and lied to him.

And so did these other two modern bible perversions:

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
But they deceived Him with their mouths, they lied to Him with their tongues,International Standard Version (©2012)
But they deceived him with their mouths; they lied to him with their tongues.

And surprisingly though the NIV and ESV got the correct rendering of Psalm 78:36. You see in this verse the NIV and ESV agree with the King James Bible reading.

The correct rendering of Psalm 78:36 is:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Nevertheless they did flatter him with their mouth, and they lied unto him with their tongues.

Again, the NIV and ESV this time agree with the King James Bible in Psalm 78:36:

New International Version (©2011)
But then they would flatter him with their mouths, lying to him with their tongues;

English Standard Version (©2001)
But they flattered him with their mouths; they lied to him with their tongues.

The children of Israel flattered the LORD with their mouth, but they DID NOT DECEIVE Him. God cannot be deceived. He knows EVERYTHING. God is Omniscient.

And what about Philippians 2:6?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

without the doctrine of the trinity you wouldn't even know whose word the bible is...

and the modern bibles very clearly proclaim the deity and sinlessness of christ...and the virgin birth...and everything else... holding cultish 'king james only' beliefs is not a requirement for understanding true doctrine...in fact many members of king james only cults teach false doctrines...

also like i said in another thread...the king james version was translated from a text that was compiled by a devoted roman catholic...and changes were made under pressure from the roman catholic authorities...it was even dedicated to a pope...so calling the modern bible versions 'catholic bible versions' is hypocritical...your version has more roman catholic roots than almost any other...

the king james only cult does not honor the word of God...the king james only cult worships an idol...

And what about Philippians 2:6?

Philippians 2:6

​

New International Version (©2011)
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;New Living Translation (©2007)
Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.English Standard Version (©2001)
who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,New American Standard Bible (©1995)
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage.

Well, now let's see what the true Bible says:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Jesus Christ thought it not robbery to be equal with God because Jesus and His Father are One. Jesus Christ clearly claimed that He was one with the Father and therefore that showed that He was equal with God.

Again, a good example showing where the deity of Jesus Christ is upheld and defended in the King James Authorized Bible while it is attacked in the modern bible translations.

also like i said in another thread...the king james version was translated from a text that was compiled by a devoted roman catholic...and changes were made under pressure from the roman catholic authorities...it was even dedicated to a pope...so calling the modern bible versions 'catholic bible versions' is hypocritical...your version has more roman catholic roots than almost any other...

the king james only cult does not honor the word of God...the king james only cult worships an idol...

Rachel, Erasmus was an embarrassment to the pope. You see Erasmus was aware of the problems in the Catholic church. He did not keep vigils, in fact he outright refused to keep them. It is said that he always ate meat on Fridays, and though he was ordained to be a priest, he never functioned as one. And he made that choice for himself.

And are you aware that Erasmus wrote a tract titled "Against the Barbarians."? And do you know who he wrote that in regard to? That tract and writing of his was a direct attack against the wickedness and corruption of the Roman Catholic Church!!

Erasmus constantly berated the papacy, the over indulgences of the monks, and the priesthood. He heavily attacked the wrongful cruelty of which the Roman Catholic church dealt with "those they thought and declared to be heretics." He was known to attack the clerical concubinage and Erasmus is even known to have save a man from the inquisition.

So Erasmus, although he may be labeled a "Roman Catholic," he sure was not a good Roman Catholic nor was he a practicing one at that. Erasmus was a verbal opponent to the many heretical practices of the Roman Catholic church.

Also, he was a constant critic and verbal opponent to Pope Julius and the Papal Monarchy. And check this out, he even said this about the Papal Monarchy:

"This monarchy of the Roman pontiff is the pest of Christendom." Those aren't very kind words now are they?

In what is said to be a harshly critical satire of where Pope Julius is portrayed as going into Hell, it was commonly known in that day that the author was Erasmus, although the work was written in anonymity.

The Roman Catholic church and the Papacy sought to silence Erasmus's criticisms; and they even offered him a bishopric, but he out rejected the bribe entirely. And by the way, not surprisingly. the Roman Catholic church criticized the works of Erasmus!

Also when Erasmus was compiling his text, he understood that the Jerome's translation had been based solely on the Alexandrian text and manuscript, Vaticanus, which was written in the Early Fourth Century. Which is why Erasmus refused to use Jerome's Latin Translation. He opposed Jerome's translation for this very reason.

Plus, Erasmus also differed with Jerome's translation in several passages, where claimed authority by the Roman Catholic church was dependent upon.

In Jerome' translation, Matthew 4:17 read:

"Do penance, for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand."

But Erasmus translated this way: "Be penitent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Furthermore, Erasmus was a huge defender for the following Scripture Passages: Mark 16:9-21 and John 8:1-12. Which by the way both Siniaticus and Vaticanus both leave out and omit in their texts.

So Rachel your statement about Erasmus being a "devoted roman catholic" is very deceptive. Erasmus also disagreed strongly with the Roman Catholic church on their doctrine of salvation through works and tenets of the church. Erasmus was known for teaching that salvation was by faith alone and that it was between the individual and God. Being that salvation was a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Erasmus further critiqued the Roman Catholic system of salvation by works by saying:

"Aristotle is so in vogue that there is scarcely time in the churches to interpret the gospel."

Erasmus went on to say:

"Our hope is in the mercy of God and the merits of Christ." Pertaining to the Lord Jesus Christ, Erasmus also stated the following:

"He ... nailed our sins to the cross, sealed our redemption with his blood."

"The way to enter paradise, is the way of the penitent thief, say simply, Thy will be done. The world to me is crucified and I to the world."

Erasmus also boldly stated that no rites of the Church were necessary for an individual's salvation. Again, if Erasmus was a Roman Catholic like people label and claim him to be, then he sure was not a good one at that!!!

Erasmus' whole adult life and his understanding and convictions was clearly contrary to the ways and doctrines of the Roman Catholic church. And one other thing though Rachel, are you even aware that 23 years after the death of Erasmus that Pope Paul IV put and placed Erasmus's writings on an "Index" of books that were forbidden to be read by Roman Catholics.

If you have been doing your studies Rachel, I just can't see how you could possibly miss that. Again, Erasmus was not a devoted roman catholic, if anything, he was the EXACT opposite!

Erasmus constantly criticized and attacked the Papacy and the doctrines of the Roman Catholic church.

While in Contrast, Erasmus related with and respected the Anabaptists greatly.

And by the way, the Anabaptists were being persecuted by the Roman Catholic church. The Roman Church persecuted the Anabaptists severely.

The Anabaptists were for the simplicity in Biblical New Testament Christianity. And Erasmus had a high regard and respect for them.

So your argument Rachel does not hold any weight to it. Your presumptions and those of other Alexandrians about Erasmus "supposedly" being a "devoted roman catholic" are based on ignorance.

And no the King James Bible does not have any roman catholic roots to it. That is simply just another ignorant statement.

The King James Holy Bible is the Only Protestant Bible on the market today that can be traced back to the legacy of the Christian martyrs. And it was the King James Bible that destroyed the Roman Catholic's control and power which they held over much of Europe.

And all the modern versions from 1881 onward are yoked up to the roman catholic church because of the underlying vaticanus and siniaticus Greek text which they are translated from. The modern versions are Catholic and Vatican versions.

Also there was an agreement between the Vatican and the United Bible Societies solely for the basis of coming out with new translations.

On page 45, in the Nestle-Aland critical Greek 27th edition, the following is stated:

"The text shared by these two editions was adopted internationally by Bible Societies, an following an agreement between the Vatican and the United Bible Societies it has served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision. This marks a significant step with regard to interconfessional relationships." (p. 45) -


So all the modern translations that are out on the market today are connected and yoked up with the Nestle Alands/UBS Greek text. And the NA/UBS Greek Text is not the product of Biblical Christianity. The United Bible Societies is an ecumenical umbrella of national Bible societies which also are ecumenical in purpose and their membership.

So again Rachel, you have been soundly refuted.

And the King James Bible beleivers do honour the word of God. King James Bible believers like myself and the others who are on here (Christian Chat Forum) as well as the thousands upon thousands of others in America and all around the world hold the word of God in the highest regard.

While you Rachel along with the other Alexandrians do not honor the word of God. But you Alexandrians defend the modern satanic bible perversions like the NIV, ESV, NLT, and the other modern perversions.

 

[Nautilus]

yeah man replacing Christ with He, really screwed me over....my basic reading comprehension skills just couldnt fathom who they were talking about when they followed basic english writing rules of pronouns.../sarcasm

Edit: It must be nice to live in your own little bubble where every problem you have with people can be solved by well clearly they defend satanic(dumb) bibles and therefore im better...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Without the word of God, we would have never gotten the doctrine of the Trinity. It is from the pure word of God, that we got the doctrine of the Godhead and of the trinity.



No, the modern versions do not clearly proclaim the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. The modern bible perversions attack the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ:

Subtil attack on the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ in the modern versions:
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: btext, colspan: 2"]
New International Version (©2011)
Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.New Living Translation (©2007)
Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: Christ was revealed in a human body and vindicated by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and announced to the nations. He was believed in throughout the world and taken to heaven in glory.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.


Clear rendering showing Jesus Christ's deity:


King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Another subtil attack on Jesus Christ's deity in the modern versions:


[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: btext, colspan: 2"]
New International Version (©2011)
He said, "Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods."New Living Translation (©2007)
"Look!" Nebuchadnezzar shouted. "I see four men, unbound, walking around in the fire unharmed! And the fourth looks like a god!"
English Standard Version (©2001)
He answered and said, “But I see four men unbound, walking in the midst of the fire, and they are not hurt; and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods.”
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
He said, "Look! I see four men loosed and walking about in the midst of the fire without harm, and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods!"

The true Biblical rendering of Daniel 3:25:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

The Modern bible versions claim that Jesus sinned when He got angry:


New International Version (©2011)
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister (???) will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
New Living Translation (©2007)
But I say, if you are even angry with someone, (???) you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell.
English Standard Version (©2001)
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother(???) will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother(???) shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


The modern versions are missing a very, very important phrase in their text. Let's see what that phrase is:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

The phrase which the modern versions left out was: without a cause. It is not a sin to be angry. But it is a sin to be angry without a cause.

And since the modern perversions remove the phrase: Without a Cause.
They turn Jesus into a sinner in Mark 3:5!


[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: btext, colspan: 2"]
New International Version (©2011)
He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
New Living Translation (©2007)
He looked around at them angrily and was deeply saddened by their hard hearts. Then he said to the man, "Hold out your hand." So the man held out his hand, and it was restored!English Standard Version (©2001)
And he looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, and said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was restored.New American Standard Bible (©1995)
After looking around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, He said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." And he stretched it out, and his hand was restored.

But in the King James Bible, while Jesus became angry, He had a righteous cause for being angry. So the deity of Jesus Christ is clearly protected in the Authorized Version.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

No matter what the modern versions claim, Jesus Christ did not sin when He got angry. Jesus Christ had a cause for His anger. And in reading the context of that passage of Scripture, it can be said that it was the hardness of the people's hearts that was the cause for Jesus' anger. So once again, we see another clear example of where Jesus Christ's deity is exalted and honoured in the time tested Authorized King James Bible.


Now how about Micah 5:2? Let's see what the modern perversions do this time to our Lord and Saviour:

New International Version (©2011)
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old,from ancient times."New Living Translation (©2007)
But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, are only a small village among all the people of Judah. Yet a ruler of Israel will come from you, one whose origins are from the distant past.English Standard Version (©2001)
But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days.

Now this time in the New American Standard, it seems in this verse that they did not attack Jesus' everlasting nature.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity."

Micah 5:2 really says this:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Oh and there is one other thing you should know Rachel in regard to the New American Standard,
and that is the New American Standard claims that God was deceived by the Children of Israel in Psalm 78:36:

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But they deceived Him with their mouth And lied to Him with their tongue. So do not trust the New American Standard either. It is just another Satanic counterfeit.

Also, Daniel Wallace's whacky NET Bible Version also got it wrong here:

NET Bible (©2006)
But they deceived him with their words, and lied to him.

And so did these other two modern bible perversions:

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
But they deceived Him with their mouths, they lied to Him with their tongues,International Standard Version (©2012)
But they deceived him with their mouths; they lied to him with their tongues.

And surprisingly though the NIV and ESV got the correct rendering of Psalm 78:36. You see in this verse the NIV and ESV agree with the King James Bible reading.

The correct rendering of Psalm 78:36 is:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Nevertheless they did flatter him with their mouth, and they lied unto him with their tongues.

Again, the NIV and ESV this time agree with the King James Bible in Psalm 78:36:

New International Version (©2011)
But then they would flatter him with their mouths, lying to him with their tongues;

English Standard Version (©2001)
But they flattered him with their mouths; they lied to him with their tongues.

The children of Israel flattered the LORD with their mouth, but they DID NOT DECEIVE Him. God cannot be deceived. He knows EVERYTHING. God is Omniscient.

And what about Philippians 2:6?

without the doctrine of the trinity...for all we know the bible could be the word of the muslim god...which incidentally is close to what the muslims claim...

without knowing what God wrote the bible...we have no reason to trust it...

so yes the doctrine of the trinity is much more important than this cultish 'king james only' gobbledygook...

your attacks on modern bible translations mainly just show your lack of reading comprehension...which probably comes from years and years of reading the bible in obsolete language...

jesus' deity is clearly proclaimed in the modern bible translations when he is called 'the word' made flesh...and when the word is said to be God...

the hebrew in daniel 3:25 is grammatically ambiguous and it could be read either way...there is no basis for preferring the rendering in the king james version over the other possible rendering... but i know your cult teaches the blasphemous claim that the king james version is superior to what the prophet actually wrote...

anyway daniel 3:25 just records what the pagan king nebuchadnezzar said...since when did our theology depend on comments made by pagans?

the people jesus was angry with were not his brothers...not as he defined who his brothers were...so there is no problem with saying jesus got angry at someone... your objection here comes from a misinterpretation of the text...

i am just going to stop here because your arguments are basically an encyclopedia of lousy exegesis...i have already pointed out enough facts to show that you just plain don't know what you are talking about when you interpret the bible...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Rachel, Erasmus was an embarrassment to the pope. You see Erasmus was aware of the problems in the Catholic church. He did not keep vigils, in fact he outright refused to keep them. It is said that he always ate meat on Fridays, and though he was ordained to be a priest, he never functioned as one. And he made that choice for himself.

And are you aware that Erasmus wrote a tract titled "Against the Barbarians."? And do you know who he wrote that in regard to? That tract and writing of his was a direct attack against the wickedness and corruption of the Roman Catholic Church!!

Erasmus constantly berated the papacy, the over indulgences of the monks, and the priesthood. He heavily attacked the wrongful cruelty of which the Roman Catholic church dealt with "those they thought and declared to be heretics." He was known to attack the clerical concubinage and Erasmus is even known to have save a man from the inquisition.

So Erasmus, although he may be labeled a "Roman Catholic," he sure was not a good Roman Catholic nor was he a practicing one at that. Erasmus was a verbal opponent to the many heretical practices of the Roman Catholic church.

Also, he was a constant critic and verbal opponent to Pope Julius and the Papal Monarchy. And check this out, he even said this about the Papal Monarchy:

"This monarchy of the Roman pontiff is the pest of Christendom." Those aren't very kind words now are they?

In what is said to be a harshly critical satire of where Pope Julius is portrayed as going into Hell, it was commonly known in that day that the author was Erasmus, although the work was written in anonymity.

The Roman Catholic church and the Papacy sought to silence Erasmus's criticisms; and they even offered him a bishopric, but he out rejected the bribe entirely. And by the way, not surprisingly. the Roman Catholic church criticized the works of Erasmus!

Also when Erasmus was compiling his text, he understood that the Jerome's translation had been based solely on the Alexandrian text and manuscript, Vaticanus, which was written in the Early Fourth Century. Which is why Erasmus refused to use Jerome's Latin Translation. He opposed Jerome's translation for this very reason.

Plus, Erasmus also differed with Jerome's translation in several passages, where claimed authority by the Roman Catholic church was dependent upon.

In Jerome' translation, Matthew 4:17 read:

"Do penance, for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand."

But Erasmus translated this way: "Be penitent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Furthermore, Erasmus was a huge defender for the following Scripture Passages: Mark 16:9-21 and John 8:1-12. Which by the way both Siniaticus and Vaticanus both leave out and omit in their texts.

So Rachel your statement about Erasmus being a "devoted roman catholic" is very deceptive. Erasmus also disagreed strongly with the Roman Catholic church on their doctrine of salvation through works and tenets of the church. Erasmus was known for teaching that salvation was by faith alone and that it was between the individual and God. Being that salvation was a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Erasmus further critiqued the Roman Catholic system of salvation by works by saying:

"Aristotle is so in vogue that there is scarcely time in the churches to interpret the gospel."

Erasmus went on to say:

"Our hope is in the mercy of God and the merits of Christ." Pertaining to the Lord Jesus Christ, Erasmus also stated the following:

"He ... nailed our sins to the cross, sealed our redemption with his blood."

"The way to enter paradise, is the way of the penitent thief, say simply, Thy will be done. The world to me is crucified and I to the world."

Erasmus also boldly stated that no rites of the Church were necessary for an individual's salvation. Again, if Erasmus was a Roman Catholic like people label and claim him to be, then he sure was not a good one at that!!!

Erasmus' whole adult life and his understanding and convictions was clearly contrary to the ways and doctrines of the Roman Catholic church. And one other thing though Rachel, are you even aware that 23 years after the death of Erasmus that Pope Paul IV put and placed Erasmus's writings on an "Index" of books that were forbidden to be read by Roman Catholics.

If you have been doing your studies Rachel, I just can't see how you could possibly miss that. Again, Erasmus was not a devoted roman catholic, if anything, he was the EXACT opposite!

Erasmus constantly criticized and attacked the Papacy and the doctrines of the Roman Catholic church.

While in Contrast, Erasmus related with and respected the Anabaptists greatly.

And by the way, the Anabaptists were being persecuted by the Roman Catholic church. The Roman Church persecuted the Anabaptists severely.

The Anabaptists were for the simplicity in Biblical New Testament Christianity. And Erasmus had a high regard and respect for them.

So your argument Rachel does not hold any weight to it. Your presumptions and those of other Alexandrians about Erasmus "supposedly" being a "devoted roman catholic" are based on ignorance.

And no the King James Bible does not have any roman catholic roots to it. That is simply just another ignorant statement.

The King James Holy Bible is the Only Protestant Bible on the market today that can be traced back to the legacy of the Christian martyrs. And it was the King James Bible that destroyed the Roman Catholic's control and power which they held over much of Europe.

And all the modern versions from 1881 onward are yoked up to the roman catholic church because of the underlying vaticanus and siniaticus Greek text which they are translated from. The modern versions are Catholic and Vatican versions.

Also there was an agreement between the Vatican and the United Bible Societies solely for the basis of coming out with new translations.

On page 45, in the Nestle-Aland critical Greek 27th edition, the following is stated:

"The text shared by these two editions was adopted internationally by Bible Societies, an following an agreement between the Vatican and the United Bible Societies it has served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision. This marks a significant step with regard to interconfessional relationships." (p. 45) -


So all the modern translations that are out on the market today are connected and yoked up with the Nestle Alands/UBS Greek text. And the NA/UBS Greek Text is not the product of Biblical Christianity. The United Bible Societies is an ecumenical umbrella of national Bible societies which also are ecumenical in purpose and their membership.

So again Rachel, you have been soundly refuted.

And the King James Bible beleivers do honour the word of God. King James Bible believers like myself and the others who are on here (Christian Chat Forum) as well as the thousands upon thousands of others in America and all around the world hold the word of God in the highest regard.

While you Rachel along with the other Alexandrians do not honor the word of God. But you Alexandrians defend the modern satanic bible perversions like the NIV, ESV, NLT, and the other modern perversions.

your claims about erasmus fit your pattern of being completely misinformed...

here is something erasmus wrote about the roman catholic church..."What weight the authority of the church may have with others, I know not; but with me it weighs so much, that I could be of the opinion of the Arians and Pelagians, if the church had approved their doctrines."

the arians and pelagians were infamous heretics...especially the arians...

erasmus also wrote this to luther..."Would a stable mind depart from the opinion handed down by so many men famous for holiness and miracles, depart from the decisions of the Church, and commit our souls to the faith of someone like you who has sprung up just now with a few followers...?"

and finally he wrote about the protestant understanding of the gospel in this way..."Show me any one person who by that Gospel has been reclaimed from drunkenness to sobriety, from fury and passion to meekness, from avarice to liberality, from reviling to well-speaking, from wantonness to modesty. I will show you a great many who have become worse through following it."

so yes erasmus was entirely committed to the roman catholic church...considering disagreement with its decisions to be a sign of an unstable mind...willing to accept the most infamous heresies if the roman catholic church mandated it...and disparaging the protestant understanding of the gospel... so it is perfectly true to say that the compiler of the textus receptus was a devoted roman catholic...

moreover erasmus included one passage in his textus receptus that came -directly- from jerome's vulgate...and not from any greek text he had ever seen...namely the disputed part of 1 john 5:8...and he did this in response to pressure from the roman catholic church...

and contrary to your aspersions about the alexandrian texts...the textus receptus actually -includes- readings from the alexandrian text type that are -missing- from the byzantine text type...namely in matthew 10:8 and acts 20:28...

your claim that the king james version can be traced back to the martyrs is also nonsense...the truth is that the king james version's source texts cannot be traced back any earlier than the eleventh century...

and the king james version did not 'destroy the roman catholic church's control over europe'...that was the result of the thirty years' war...the protestant side was mostly composed of people who didn't speak english and didn't use the king james version...

in conclusion your pastiche of ignorance hasn't refuted anything...except your credibility...

you and the rest of the 'king james only' cult don't honor the word of God...you worship an idol and preach a doctrine of demons...which goes against the word of God...

 

[Nautilus]

you want some aloe for that burn?

 

[homwardbound]

Homewardbound, Absolutely, you see true repentance leads to salvation. Once a person comes to God as a sinner seeking mercy and they call upon the Name of the Lord Jesus, that person is saved Once and For All. After that he needs to be assured of His position in Christ and that he is Eternally Secure. And of course there are good works that a Christian will do that are meet for repentance, but it is not that he is doing those works to keep his salvation, or to stay saved, he is simply doing those works because he is saved. It is a direct result of his new nature.


4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. - Ephesians 2:4-22 (King James Bible)


2 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
17 Yea, and if I be offered upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I joy, and rejoice with you all.
18 For the same cause also do ye joy, and rejoice with me.
19 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.
20 For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.
21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.
22 But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.
23 Him therefore I hope to send presently, so soon as I shall see how it will go with me.
24 But I trust in the Lord that I also myself shall come shortly.
25 Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants.
26 For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick.
27 For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.
28 I sent him therefore the more carefully, that, when ye see him again, ye may rejoice, and that I may be the less sorrowful.
29 Receive him therefore in the Lord with all gladness; and hold such in reputation:
30 Because for the work of Christ he was nigh unto death, not regarding his life, to supply your lack of service toward me. - Philippians 2:1-30 (King James Bible)

thank you, and a big yes

 

[ChosenbyHim]

without the doctrine of the trinity...for all we know the bible could be the word of the muslim god...which incidentally is close to what the muslims claim...

without knowing what God wrote the bible...we have no reason to trust it...

But we do know that God wrote His word for us and that we have it. Now you may be confused about whether the word of God is on the earth or not. But for the Bible believers out there like myself and many others, we trust God's promise to preserve His pure words for us. And we have them. It is called the King James Authorized Version. Get yourself a copy of God's perfect and pure word. Read it, study it, and believe it.

so yes the doctrine of the trinity is much more important than this cultish 'king james only' gobbledygook...

We get the doctrine of the Trinity, the doctrine of the Godhead from the Scriptures. From the word of God. Therefore the doctrine of Bible preservation and Final Written Authority is the most important issue that any Christian will ever face on this planet and in this universe. We get doctrine from Scripture.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (King James Bible)

your attacks on modern bible translations mainly just show your lack of reading comprehension...which probably comes from years and years of reading the bible in obsolete language...

jesus' deity is clearly proclaimed in the modern bible translations when he is called 'the word' made flesh...and when the word is said to be God...

No my attack on the modern bible perversions just shows that I have understood the Bible Version Issue. Just like all the other faithful preachers who also are standing against the modern bible perversions. We King James Bible believers understand that the Bible Version Issue is an issue over Final Written Authority.


And No, the deity of Jesus Christ is NOT clearly proclaimed in the modern versions. The deity of Jesus Christ is attacked in the modern bible versions.


Why? Because the modern bible perversions are just satanic counterfeits, that's why. Satan has always hated the true word of God. And that's why there have been so many attacks on the time tested and God Honoured King James Authorized Version. Which is God's perfect, pure, infallible and inerrant word.


Now Rachel think about it, Satan is subtil. So the new satanic counterfeit bible perversions are not going to distort every verse regarding the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. But the very fact that they still distort many other verses regarding the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ is evidence enough that the new versions are just satanic and false bibles.

the hebrew in daniel 3:25 is grammatically ambiguous and it could be read either way...there is no basis for preferring the rendering in the king james version over the other possible rendering... but i know your cult teaches the blasphemous claim that the king james version is superior to what the prophet actually wrote...

The Hebrew in Daniel 3:25 is ambiguous? Got any proof? Got any evidence to back up your claim? Most likely not.


No, the modern version renderings of Daniel 3:25 are false. The only true Biblical rendering of Daniel 3:25 is in the King James Holy Bible.


Rachel, okay take sometime to think independently. I know it is hard for you Alexandrians to have independent thought. But just try to think independently for a moment. Do we have the original Autographs in our possession today? Is the Original Hebrew and Greek still around today?


If it is not, which of course is the case, then what would make you think that the original autographs are somehow superior to what we have as our Final Authority today?


If you are honest with yourself Rachel, then you would say that you know that we do not have the original autographs today. But what we do have is our English Bible.


So, we King James Bible believers are right when we say that the King James Bible is indeed superior to the Original Autographs. Because it is. The King James Authorized Bible is the pure and perfect word of God. It is the Final Written Authority.

anyway daniel 3:25 just records what the pagan king nebuchadnezzar said...since when did our theology depend on comments made by pagans?

the people jesus was angry with were not his brothers...not as he defined who his brothers were...so there is no problem with saying jesus got angry at someone... your objection here comes from a misinterpretation of the text...

i am just going to stop here because your arguments are basically an encyclopedia of lousy exegesis...i have already pointed out enough facts to show that you just plain don't know what you are talking about when you interpret the bible...

Well Rachel, if that is the case in regard to Matthew 5:22, then why do the modern versions take out the phrase: Without a Cause?

They take it out from the text to attack the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. Many Bible preachers and teachers also know that removing the phrase: Without a Cause is a very serious deletion. And yes it is an issue and a problem Rachel. It is a very big problem. And just because some blind "Greek Professor" like James White said it wasn't doesn't change the fact that it is.


And no Rachel, you have not shown any facts to prove anything. I have already refuted your silly argument about Erasmus being a "devoted roman catholic." You see Rachel, you cannot handle the information that is out there in regard to the Bible Version Issue, so you just out right reject it. And it could be that you just want to have your mind as your own final authority. Whether you like it or not Rachel, there is a Perfect Standard out there. And it is the King James Bible. No one has ever proven an error to be in the King James Bible and no one ever will. Why? Because there are NONE. There cannot be any errors in God's true words.


I have given you documentation showing you the blatant blasphemies contained in the modern versions and because you simply cannot refute them, you come up with the same silly and ridiculous claims and arguments that the other Alexandrians out there have used against us Bible believers who believe and trust the word of God.


Plus, I also refuted your "originals only" theory. Nothing could be more funny than trying to defend all these hundreds of conflicting and contradicting modern bible perversions. Try to do that in a court of law. And you'll see how fast the judge will laugh your case for the conflicting and contradicting modern bible perversions right out of the courtroom.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

thank you, and a big yes

Absolutely Homwardbound, you are welcome sir.

 

[Blase-and-Blithe]

Personally, when I read the Bible, I enjoy "The Ignatius Bible: Revised Standard Version".

Who better to translate the Bible into English than the Catholics (or Orthodoxy, though they don't really speak English by-and-large) who were around way before any English King decided to translate the Bible into his Protestant version. Sorry if you take this the wrong way, but I believe the Catholic Church (which has some 1500 years history and biblical experience on the Protestants) is best suited to translating the Bible.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

your claims about erasmus fit your pattern of being completely misinformed...

here is something erasmus wrote about the roman catholic church..."What weight the authority of the church may have with others, I know not; but with me it weighs so much, that I could be of the opinion of the Arians and Pelagians, if the church had approved their doctrines."

Rachel where are you getting your misinformation from?

Erasmus was a strong opponent to the Roman Catholic church's heretical dogmas. Erasmus clearly saw and witnessed how the roman catholic church had corrupted the Doctrines of Christ completely and utterly. Here are more quotes of what Erasmus wrote pertaining to the roman catholic church:


"I told parsons [clergymen] to leave their wranglings and read the Bible… I told popes and cardinals to look at the Apostles, and make themselves more like to them" (Froude, J.A., Short Studies, vol. I, p. 134).



"You know that I was forced into it by interested guardians….My profession was a mistake." (Froude, J.A., The ‪Life and Letters of Erasmus‬, p. 170).



"The corruption… [and] the degeneracy of the Holy See are universally admitted…" (Froude, J.A., The ‪Life and Letters of Erasmus‬, p. 284).


"[T]he Catholics, instead of repenting of their sins, pile superstition on superstition…" (Froude, J.A., The ‪Life and Letters of Erasmus‬, p. 374).




"A monk's holy obedience… consists in—what? In leading an honest, chaste, and sober life? Not the least. In acquiring learning, in study, and industry? Still less. A monk may be a glutton, a drunkard, a whoremonger, an ignorant, stupid, malignant, envious brute, but he has broken no vow, he is within his holy obedience. He has only to be the slave of a superior as good for nothing as himself, and he is an excellent brother" (Froude, J.A., Short Studies, vol. I, p. 77).



"They pretend to resemble the Apostles, and they are filthy, ignorant, impudent vagabonds…[T]hey quarrel with each other and curse each other. They pretend to poverty, but they steal into honest men's houses and pollute them, and wasps as they are, no one dares refuse them admittance for fear of their stings." --Erasmus in Moria.



"…Boys and girls, however, who have been tempted into religious houses ought to be set free, as having been taken in by fraud" (Froude, J.A., The ‪Life and Letters of Erasmus‬, p. 340).


"I advised divines to leave scholastic subtleties and study Scriptures… I wish there could be an end of scholastic subtleties, or, if not an end, that they could be thrust into a second place, and Christ be taught plainly and simply. The reading of the Bible… will have this effect. Doctrines are taught now which have affinity with Christ and only darken our eyes" (Froude, J.A., The Life and Letters, pp. 356).

the arians and pelagians were infamous heretics...especially the arians...

erasmus also wrote this to luther..."Would a stable mind depart from the opinion handed down by so many men famous for holiness and miracles, depart from the decisions of the Church, and commit our souls to the faith of someone like you who has sprung up just now with a few followers...?"

and finally he wrote about the protestant understanding of the gospel in this way..."Show me any one person who by that Gospel has been reclaimed from drunkenness to sobriety, from fury and passion to meekness, from avarice to liberality, from reviling to well-speaking, from wantonness to modesty. I will show you a great many who have become worse through following it."

so yes erasmus was entirely committed to the roman catholic church...considering disagreement with its decisions to be a sign of an unstable mind...willing to accept the most infamous heresies if the roman catholic church mandated it...and disparaging the protestant understanding of the gospel... so it is perfectly true to say that the compiler of the textus receptus was a devoted roman catholic...

No Rachel, Erasmus was not commited to the Roman Catholic church. Erasmus wrote two satires; Enchiridion and Praise of Folly, which were brilliant works attacking the doctrines of Rome. Furthermore Rachel, Pope Paul IV added these two satires by Erasmus along with the rest of Erasmus's writings and works to the Index Librorum Prohibitorum, which was Rome's Index and List of Forbidden books and prohibited publications, in 1559.


So Rachel, if Erasmus was such so strongly committed to the roman catholic church, well then why did Erasmus attack the Roman Catholic church so much? Why did he berate the papacy so much?


And why was Erasmus's books and works, and his satires added to the Index Librorum Prohibitorum?


Why was his works forbidden that no Roman Catholic could read them?


Don't you think it might be because Erasmus was a threat to the Catholic church? I think so. Erasmus could discern and clearly see the corruption and blatant blasphemies of the wicked system of Roman Catholicism. That's why Pope Paul IV had his books and the rest of his works added to the list of forbidden books.

moreover erasmus included one passage in his textus receptus that came -directly- from jerome's vulgate...and not from any greek text he had ever seen...namely the disputed part of 1 john 5:8...and he did this in response to pressure from the roman catholic church...

and contrary to your aspersions about the alexandrian texts...the textus receptus actually -includes- readings from the alexandrian text type that are -missing- from the byzantine text type...namely in matthew 10:8 and acts 20:28...

your claim that the king james version can be traced back to the martyrs is also nonsense...the truth is that the king james version's source texts cannot be traced back any earlier than the eleventh century...

No Rachel, it is the truth. All the English line of pure Bibles starting from Wycliffe's Bible in the Fourteenth Century and culminating to the perfect and inerrant Authorized King James Bible can all be traced back to the legacy of the Christian Martyrs. The fact that you cannot comprehend this truth just shows your utter ignorance in regard to this matter. And now the King James Bible is the only protestant Bible on the market today that can be traced back to the Christian Martyrs.


And if you don't think that is the case Rachel, then I suggest you do some more studying. Read some more books on this issue. You may also want to study some church history.


And your statement about the source texts of the King James Bible being traced back to only the eleventh century, is absurd. I suggest you look up some of the quotations of the Textus Receptus from the early church fathers. And you'll find that those quotations are prior to 400 A.D.


So much for your absurd claim Rachel.


And again, who are you getting all this misinformation of yours from? If you are getting this stuff from James White, then just stop. Alright? James White cannot be trusted. Brother Will Kinney has already refuted many of James White's erroneous claims and statements in regard to the Byzantine text "supposedly" being a late text.


The truth of the matter is that it is not a late text. Dean Burgon even proved in his book; Revision Revised, that the Textus Receptus was the text of the second half of the fourth century. And by the way, Fenton Hort even stated this fact, and Hort was one of the men who introduced the Alexandrian Greek Text!


"The fundamental Text of late extant Greek MSS generally is beyond all question identical with the dominant Antiochian or Graeco-Syrian Text of the second half of the 4th century." (Hort, The Factor of Geneology, pg 92---as cited by Burgon, Revision Revised, pg 257).

and the king james version did not 'destroy the roman catholic church's control over europe'...that was the result of the thirty years' war...the protestant side was mostly composed of people who didn't speak english and didn't use the king james version...

Yes it did Rachel. Again, just shows your outright denial of the facts. Again, you need to do some more study and research. The Roman Catholic church's control and power over Europe was destroyed by the time tested King James Authorized Version of 1611.

in conclusion your pastiche of ignorance hasn't refuted anything...except your credibility...

you and the rest of the 'king james only' cult don't honor the word of God...you worship an idol and preach a doctrine of demons...which goes against the word of God...

Rachel, your silly and ridiculous claims have been refuted. So if you want to continue to deny the facts and continue in your willful ignorance, then that's your choice. And again, your claim that the source texts for the King James Bible supposedly only going back to the Eleventh century is totally unfounded.


The Byzantine text type goes back to the Fourth Century.


Here are several of the Byzantine Codex's that are from the sixth century:


Codex Petropolitanus Purpuresus (022), Codex Sinopensis (023), Codex Guelferbytanus A (024), Codex Nitriensis (027), Codex Rossanensis (042), and Codex Beratinus (043). And again these Byzantine Codex's are from the 6th Century.


And no Rachel, we King James Bible believers honour and exalt the precious word of God. While you and the other Alexandrians and Bible correctors don't really believe that you have the word of God.


And What we King James Bible believers preach is the truth. We preach the true word of God. And we take a strong stand against the fake and satanic new age bible perversions like the NIV, Message, ESV, NLT, LB, NASV, The Voice, and the many others out that are out there on the market.


You Alexandrians are also confused as to what God really said. Since you all don't have a perfect Bible in your possession today. Rachel, you and the other Alexandrians out there make up your own mind to be your own final authority. And that is satanic. I suggest that you repent and convert over to the precious and time tested King James Authorized Version, which is the perfect and inerrant and infallible word of the Living God. Submit to it. Because it is the Final Written Authority. It is the Final Written Authority on this Earth and in the Universe.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

repeating your same falsified claims over again does not make them true...and appealing to what the leaders of your cult 'proved' does not add any weight to your claims...

so basically you have done nothing to disprove anything i have already said to debunk your lies...

stop nehushtanizing the king james version...leave your idolatrous cult...stop worshipping peter ruckman's familiar spirits...and convert to christianity and worship the true God!

 

[ChosenbyHim]

repeating your same falsified claims over again does not make them true...and appealing to what the leaders of your cult 'proved' does not add any weight to your claims...

so basically you have done nothing to disprove anything i have already said to debunk your lies...

stop nehushtanizing the king james version...leave your idolatrous cult...stop worshipping peter ruckman's familiar spirits...and convert to christianity and worship the true God!

Rachel, what I shared with you is the truth. And you have outright rejected the truth. That's just the way it is. Study history, study the facts. Your claims are nothing more than a parroting of what you learned from other Alexandrians who reject the pure text.

What adds weight to the claims which I made is that they are true. Your claims are totally unfounded. Especially that remark you made in regard to the Byzantine Text Type. When you made that silly claim of yours, I knew you had to have gotten that from someone like James White who is a professional liar and a blind apostate.

And yes I have disproved your silly claims that you parrot from other Alexandrians like yourself. Your claims which have no backing have already been refuted Rachel. So you need to accept that fact and stop denying the undeniable.

And the one here who is spreading lies is you because all your really doing is parroting the other nonsense that you've heard from the "educated" Greek professors and Alexandrians who think they're smarter than God.

Same thing with your absurd claims in regard to Erasmus. It had to be something that you repeated from some of the other apostates and Alexandrians out there.

And Rachel stop your denial of a perfect Written Record.

Stop defending the satanic, Vatican modern bible perversions and start taking a stand for the true word of God. Take a stand for the King James Authorized Version, which is the 100% perfect, inerrant, pure and infallible word of God. And you better submit to God's Final Written Authority.

Stop trusting in your vain education and stop following liars and other apostates like James White, Doug Kutilek and the many other Alexandrian "Scholars" who deny Final Authority and who attack the pure and perfect word of the living God, which is the King James Holy Bible. You need to repent Rachel and then you need to convert to the Authorized King James Bible. Read it, Study it, memorize it, and believe it.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Rachel, what I shared with you is the truth. And you have outright rejected the truth. That's just the way it is. Study history, study the facts. Your claims are nothing more than a parroting of what you learned from other Alexandrians who reject the pure text.

What adds weight to the claims which I made is that they are true. Your claims are totally unfounded. Especially that remark you made in regard to the Byzantine Text Type. When you made that silly claim of yours, I knew you had to have gotten that from someone like James White who is a professional liar and a blind apostate.

And yes I have disproved your silly claims that you parrot from other Alexandrians like yourself. Your claims which have no backing have already been refuted Rachel. So you need to accept that fact and stop denying the undeniable.

And the one here who is spreading lies is you because all your really doing is parroting the other nonsense that you've heard from the "educated" Greek professors and Alexandrians who think they're smarter than God.

Same thing with your absurd claims in regard to Erasmus. It had to be something that you repeated from some of the other apostates and Alexandrians out there.

And Rachel stop your denial of a perfect Written Record.

Stop defending the satanic, Vatican modern bible perversions and start taking a stand for the true word of God. Take a stand for the King James Authorized Version, which is the 100% perfect, inerrant, pure and infallible word of God. And you better submit to God's Final Written Authority.

Stop trusting in your vain education and stop following liars and other apostates like James White, Doug Kutilek and the many other Alexandrian "Scholars" who deny Final Authority and who attack the pure and perfect word of the living God, which is the King James Holy Bible. You need to repent Rachel and then you need to convert to the Authorized King James Bible. Read it, Study it, memorize it, and believe it.

i have studied the history and the facts...i posted some of it...all of which you either ignored or simply denied by repeating your original assertion without any additional support...

for example...you keep repeating your 'alexandrian' slander...when i gave examples of readings from the alexandrian text type being included in the king james version...so you are also an 'alexandrian'...

i am not the one rejecting God's word...-you- are... God's word says not to serve idols or demons...and you do both...

if hezekiah was around today he would have taken your idolized version and burned it...

 

[ChosenbyHim]

i have studied the history and the facts...i posted some of it...all of which you either ignored or simply denied by repeating your original assertion without any additional support...

for example...you keep repeating your 'alexandrian' slander...when i gave examples of readings from the alexandrian text type being included in the king james version...so you are also an 'alexandrian'...

i am not the one rejecting God's word...-you- are... God's word says not to serve idols or demons...and you do both...

if hezekiah was around today he would have taken your idolized version and burned it...

I did not ignore them, I read what you posted Rachel. I posted a lot of facts myself. Now there can only be two main positions to take in regard to the Bible Version Issue, and that is either you believe the Bible is perfect or you do not believe that it is perfect.

And Rachel, it is you who is in error because you do not have a perfect Bible to hand to anyone.


The one true Bible is perfect and inerrant, and that Bible is the King James Authorized Version.

What I posted did have support and it was documented in which books I was quoting from. There was documentation Rachel in what I posted in regard to Erasmus.

Rachel I also saw your statement in regard to Matthew 10:8 and Acts 20:28, and yeah it is correct that those two readings are from the Alexandrian text type. But what is your point Rachel? I did not say that the King James Bible was strictly translated form the Textus Receptus. The King James Bible has an eclectic text behind it.


And what I am attacking is the Alexandrian mindset and mentality which originated straight from Egypt.


The Alexandrian mindset is that the Bible is not perfect. And an Alexandrian is one that puts it back on his or her own preferences. That is how I along with thousands of other Bible believers out there can see the Satanic mentality that comes from the Alexandrian school of thought and of Higher Textual Criticism. And that is behind the New Versions.


And no, I am not an Alexandrian. I am a Antiochan Bible believer. I believe the Book. I believe, trust and know that I have a perfect Bible in my hand. The Antiochan Mindset is that the Bible is the perfect word of God.


You see Rachel; you don't believe that the Bible is perfect. Because if you did believe that the Bible was perfect, you would be able to tell me which Bible is the perfect and inerrant word of God.



Also, yes you are Rachel. You are rejecting God's word. You have not submitted to the Final Written Authority.


The word of God does not contain any errors in it. And the conflicting, modern bible versions have many errors in them.


No, we King James Bible believers do not serve idols or demons. Rachel, where do you get that silly reasoning of yours from?


Do you know what an idol is?


No, if Hezekiah was around today, he would be vexed with all the corrupt and satanic modern bible perversions that are out on the market today. I mean last time I checked Rachel, there are about 233+ contradicting modern bible perversions.


I like how Brother Al Lacy exposed the new and modern bible versions, when in his sermon The Book, he referred to the modern bible perversions as garden tools. And that is exactly what they are. The modern perversions don't have any spiritual power behind them whatsoever.


And I am sure in Hezekiah's time, they did not have over 233+ different translations that contradicted one another.



If you want spiritual power in your Christian life Rachel, then you are going to have to believe the Book. You are going to have to believe and submit to the King James Bible. Which is God's Final Written Authority.


We King James Bible believers worship the One True God, and we honour and magnify His word.

 

[jimmydiggs]

And how you can go about this process is by praying a prayer similar to this one:

Dear LORD God,

I come to you in the Name of Jesus, and I come to you with a broken heart, realizing that there is nothing which I could do to earn Heaven. I understand that your Son Jesus Christ came to this Earth about 2,000 years ago and that He died on the Cross of Calvary by shedding His precious blood for my sins and for the sins of all mankind that whosoever would come to Him for salvation that He would in no wise cast out. And so I come to you today Lord, asking for mercy and for forgiveness. I know I am a lost sinner on the road to Hell and that you are my only hope to escape the eternal fires of Hell. So I ask you Lord Jesus to save me. To cleanse me from all unrighteousness. And to wash away all my sins. I thank you Father that I am now a child of yours. A child of Heaven. Thank you Lord Jesus for saving me. Amen.

Now if you prayed that prayer or a prayer similar to that one, and if you meant it with your heart, then you are saved LadyOscar. And you can know for certain that you are going to Heaven when you die.

The sinners prayer doesn't save anyone.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

hezekiah destroyed the bronze snake that moses had made...God had given it to them as a good thing...but the people had started worshipping it...

likewise the king james version was a gift from God...but the 'king james only' cult has begun to worship it...if hezekiah was around today he would have taken your idolized version and burned it...

 

[ChosenbyHim]

The sinners prayer doesn't save anyone.

Jimmy, if a person calls upon the Name of the Lord with a repentant heart. Then that person will be saved. You see, God knows the heart. And if someone is just going through a prayer nonchalantly, God knows that.

But if a person has come to the end of himself and he realizes that he is a sinner that needs God's mercy and forgiveness, then that person has come to to a state of repentance and he is now ready to trust the Lord for salvation.

And yes the sinners prayer does work IF the person who is praying to God is calling on God with a repentant heart. So yes, the sinner's prayer does work. It is just when you are witnessing you have to preach repentance to that lost person. That lost sinner has to mean what he is praying, and he has to understand that he is a sinner before a holy God.

If the sinner's prayer does not work with certain people, is because those particular people were not serious, they did not mean it. And most certainly, there was no repentance on their part. Those people who never got saved, never repented of their self righteouesness, and of their pride. You cannot come to God with your pride and self rightouesness. There is only one way to approach God, that is coming to Him as a sinner.


I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. - Luke 5:32 (Holy Bible)


But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. - Matthew 9:13 (Holy Bible)


8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. - Romans 10:8-13 (Holy Bible)

 

[ChosenbyHim]

hezekiah destroyed the bronze snake that moses had made...God had given it to them as a good thing...but the people had started worshipping it...

likewise the king james version was a gift from God...but the 'king james only' cult has begun to worship it...if hezekiah was around today he would have taken your idolized version and burned it...

Rachel, the King James Bible was and is a gift from God. And we King James Bible believers have defended the King James Bible because we believe and know that it is the perfect, pure and inerrant word of God.

And we take a stand for the word of God. We honour and exalt it because God has magnified His word above His very Name (Psalm 138:2).

I mean think about that Rachel.

Also, we King James Bible believers also stand against the new and modern versions because they are not of the Lord. The Holy Spirit only authored one Book. And that is the King James Bible.

God is not the author of confusion.

And God would not inspire a bible that attacks and dishonours His Son. God would only inspire a Bible that honours and exalts His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

And That is how we Bible believers can tell that the modern versions are not of the Lord. Because the new and modern versions do not honour the Lord but they attack Him and His deity.

Therefore, the modern versions are of the devil.