THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

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Jan 19, 2013
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Yes I am sure....Jesus told his disciples that it is given unto us to know the mysteries of the Kingdom.
Okay, Marine, you have my utmost respect and gratitude for your service to our nation.
And if called upon, I will defend your body to the death, as you were willing to defend mine.
May God bless you richly.

But you're a lot of heat and little light.
Your Biblical understanding needs some work, for it has been hi-jacked by a false theology.
We do know "the mysteries of the kingdom," they are revealed in the epistles,
and prophetic riddles are not one of them. They are

the incarnation (1Ti 3:16),
the death of Christ (1Co 2:1),
God's purpose to sum up all things in Christ (Eph 1:9),
inclusion of both Jews and Gentiles in the church (Eph 3:3-6),
the marital union of Christ and the church (Eph 5:32),
the change that takes place at the resurrection (Col 1:15:51),
Christ in you, the hope of glory (Col 1:27),
Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge (Col 2:2-3),
Christ (Col 4:3).

The NT use of "mystery" does not mean riddle, secret knowledge known only to a few,
or unintelligible.
It simply means something never before revealed until now.
Prophetic riddles are not "mystery" in the NT sense of the word.

The use of non-NT meanings (riddles) in NT terminology (mystery) allows your theology to divide
and separate what God has joined (riddles are of uncertain meaning to us, Nu 12:6-8).

The book of Revelation is meant to be understood, not lumped under some idiotic statement so as to support the heresy that you spread due to your unwillingness to be open to learning and instruction.
That is simply your notion of God's purpose in prophecy, which I have addressed,
and to which you have made no demonstration otherwise.

However, God's notion is that he gives prophecy in riddles (Nu 12:6-8).
How much more testimony do you need than the dismal track record of God's people
since before Christ in interpreting prophetic riddles correctly.

Your notion is merely an assertion without demonstration which, therefore, is without merit.

On top of that Watcher 2013 is correct...you willingly contradict yourself by quoting Revelation when you want to twist and (spin) your heretical theology,
Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Did you fail to note that I used Rev to demonstrate your own theology's incorrect interpretation of it?
That is called "demonstration."

Your theology maintains that the church is the wife and not the bride, because the word "bride" is
found only in Revelation, and not in the epistles (more dividing, separating of what God has joined).
So why do you object to my pointing out that in Rev itself, the new Jerusalem is both the bride and
the wife of the Lamb
?

And since the Lamb is Christ (Jn 1;29, 36; 1Pe 1:19), and the wife of Christ is the church (Eph 5:31-32),
that makes the church the New Jerusalem, the bride and wife of Christ the Lamb in Rev.

And that is based on certain and unequivocal NT teaching, not on uncertain interpretation of
prophetic
riddles.

I can understand your "objection" to my "quoting Revelation" when
it clearly disproves
your theology that the church is not the New Jerusalem, the bride and wife of the Lamb.

That's called demonstration, and
you're "not happy" that it was made from your own proof text.
A little less heat and a little more light is called for.

but then conveniently (lump revealed truth that contradicts your heresy) under the idiotic statement that you either coined or (borrowed) from some other unbeliever!
And it's self-evident why whatever statement to which you are referring is really giving you the heartburn.

Assertion without demonstration is without merit.
 
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Jan 19, 2013
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Elin,
that greek manuscripts of yours, was that the original greek manuscript or just another version of your non sense?
It is the manuscript used by my Bible, as distinguished from the one used by your Bible.

Is there a material problem here. . .or just pique expressing itself?
 
Jan 19, 2013
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No doubt, it amazes e how many will twist the scripture, conveniently leave out parts of Revelation that contradict their heresy while lumping it under some moronic statement that has been coined or (borrowed) and then turn around a quote scripture from the same book which now can magically be understood as long as it supports the heresy that is being spread by someone who seemingly doesn't understand as much as they think they understand.
Lota' assertions with no demonstrations; ergo,

lota' assertions without merit.

But I understand the source of your heartburn.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Homward:
you know what...False teaching are more on stories rather the biblical scriptures...
do you now attend worship in any of local churches?
nope, I attend the one God built not man
[h=3]Hebrews 8:1-4[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[h=3]The High Priest of a New Covenant[/h]8 Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, [SUP]2 [/SUP]and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. [SUP]4 [/SUP]If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law.

Hope to see you soon

[h=3]Hebrews 8:11[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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do not forget, the flesh and blood of Christ, covers the sins of those who trust in him...so God now looks at me through His Son and not by myself...
Do you pray to God homwardbound?
And today we no longer know him in the flesh, yes he has taken pover for all those in agreement with God and see that by Son, all their sins are taken away and are made perfect to Father by Son's last and final sacrifice for thje takinjhg away of all sin in Father's sight

Taught by and thank God for thios amazing mercy given to us in appreciation
And on praying it is unceasingly
[h=3]1 Thessalonians 5:16-18[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Rejoice evermore. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Pray without ceasing. [SUP]18 [/SUP]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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It is the manuscript used by my Bible, as distinguished from the one used by your Bible.

Is there a material problem here. . .or just pique expressing itself?
I do not think it is fair to blame it in differences of the manuscript used.
In your defence of CERTAIN UNEQUIVOCAL TEACHING OF THE NT, Isn’t reasonable to conclude that if you holds that view, you have based your CERTAINTY by looking at the different versions of the Manuscript, making your belief without a doubt CERTAIN.
You once used the absence of “spiritual Mother” in the text of Gal 4:26, in order to support your argument.
In Ephesian 5 it was clearly pointed out to you and in bold letters that the reason for verse 31 was from verse 30…. see Post no 93:
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
You did not argue the absence of the text; instead, you take out verse 31 out of the whole Ephesian 5 context.
In my latest response it was demonstrated to you clearly that Eph 5:31 was not separated from verse 30 but connected…
Agreeing that it was connected, you then blamed the differences of understanding because of different “greek Manuscript”.
How CERTAIN are you now in all your DOCTRINE/THEOLOGY, are you sure you are using an infallible greek manuscript.
Sad to say, but you are full of NON SENSE.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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In this Letter to the angel of the Church in Philadlephia
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Who is the overcomer?
What is the Price?
Is the overcomer also the Price?
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
It is the manuscript used by my Bible, as distinguished from the one used by your Bible.

Is there a material problem here. . .or just pique expressing itself?
I do not think it is fair to blame it in differences of the manuscript used.
In your defence of CERTAIN UNEQUIVOCAL TEACHING OF THE NT,
Isn’t reasonable to conclude that if you holds that view, you have based your CERTAINTY by looking at the different versions of the Manuscript, making your belief without a doubt CERTAIN. . .
Sad to say, but you are full of NON SENSE
I note that

you're not done here after all, and you have more questions after your "last question" to me;

you're not happy when I disagree with you, and you're not even happy when I agree with you
on Ge 2:23 in Eph 5:30 (Mt 11:17 comes to mind, and for the same reason);

your conclusion above is not "reasonable," it is nothing more than a red herring;

all of which are the earmarks of nothing more than pique.

Your
uncertain interpretation of prophetic riddles cannot overcome
the c
ertain and unequivocal teaching of the NT that

the church is the new Jerusalem, the bride, wife and body of Christ the Lamb,

and we're down to just your personal pique.

 
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watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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Elin,
I did intend not to engage with you regarding this topic after my last question, but you keep pulling me. as you can see in thread no 9.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin,
I did intend not to engage with you regarding this topic after my last question, but you keep pulling me. as you can see in thread no 9.
Okay, I guess it can't be avoided if you keep posting here.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Lota' assertions with no demonstrations; ergo,

lota' assertions without merit.

But I understand the source of your heartburn.
All I hear from you is lips flappin! HAH!

And I don't have heartburn as Nexium works wonders!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Okay, Marine, you have my utmost respect and gratitude for your service to our nation.
And if called upon, I will defend your body to the death, as you were willing to defend mine.
May God bless you richly.

But you're a lot of heat and little light.
Your Biblical understanding needs some work, for it has been hi-jacked by a false theology.
We do know "the mysteries of the kingdom," they are revealed in the epistles,
and prophetic riddles are not one of them. They are

the incarnation (1Ti 3:16),
the death of Christ (1Co 2:1),
God's purpose to sum up all things in Christ (Eph 1:9),
inclusion of both Jews and Gentiles in the church (Eph 3:3-6),
the marital union of Christ and the church (Eph 5:32),
the change that takes place at the resurrection (Col 1:15:51),
Christ in you, the hope of glory (Col 1:27),
Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge (Col 2:2-3),
Christ (Col 4:3).

The NT use of "mystery" does not mean riddle, secret knowledge known only to a few,
or unintelligible.
It simply means something never before revealed until now.
Prophetic riddles are not "mystery" in the NT sense of the word.

The use of non-NT meanings (riddles) in NT terminology (mystery) allows your theology to divide
and separate what God has joined (riddles are of uncertain meaning to us, Nu 12:6-8).


That is simply your notion of God's purpose in prophecy, which I have addressed,
and to which you have made no demonstration otherwise.

However, God's notion is that he gives prophecy in riddles (Nu 12:6-8).
How much more testimony do you need than the dismal track record of God's people
since before Christ in interpreting prophetic riddles correctly.

Your notion is merely an assertion without demonstration which, therefore, is without merit.


Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Did you fail to note that I used Rev to demonstrate your own theology's incorrect interpretation of it?
That is called "demonstration."

Your theology maintains that the church is the wife and not the bride, because the word "bride" is
found only in Revelation, and not in the epistles (more dividing, separating of what God has joined).
So why do you object to my pointing out that in Rev itself, the new Jerusalem is both the bride and
the wife of the Lamb
?

And since the Lamb is Christ (Jn 1;29, 36; 1Pe 1:19), and the wife of Christ is the church (Eph 5:31-32),
that makes the church the New Jerusalem, the bride and wife of Christ the Lamb in Rev.

And that is based on certain and unequivocal NT teaching, not on uncertain interpretation of
prophetic
riddles.

I can understand your "objection" to my "quoting Revelation" when
it clearly disproves
your theology that the church is not the New Jerusalem, the bride and wife of the Lamb.

That's called demonstration, and
you're "not happy" that it was made from your own proof text.
A little less heat and a little more light is called for.


And it's self-evident why whatever statement to which you are referring is really giving you the heartburn.

Assertion without demonstration is without merit.
I suggest a study on the definite article (the) as applied unto New Jerusalem...oh that's right, if it contradicts your theology you chunk it, ignore it or are blind to it, because it proves that what you teach is heretical.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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I suggest a study on the definite article (the) as applied unto New Jerusalem...oh that's right, if it contradicts your theology you chunk it, ignore it or are blind to it, because it proves that what you teach is heretical.
You do realize, Marine, that ridicule is the last refuge of a failed argument.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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You do realize, Marine, that ridicule is the last refuge of a failed argument.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
I suggest a study on the definite article (the) as applied unto New Jerusalem...oh that's right, if it contradicts your theology you chunk it, ignore it or are blind to it, because it proves that what you teach is heretical.

Just stating facts....

Ok....that ridicule is the last refuge of a failed argument is Assertion (that is) without demonstration (which leaves it) without merit (and) Prophetic riddles are not "mystery" in the NT sense of the word (or is it) just pique expressing itself? However, whatever the tense, it does not alter its meaning in the following (as) You've got some reckoning to do.


I will stick with the future context as found in plain sight and for all to view and read for themselves...if you choose to ignore the future context of the scriptures and lump them in under some foolish coined statement so as to teach something that is no true then have a ball.

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
 
Revelation 21:9-10
And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying , COME THITHER, I will shew thee THE BRIDE, the LAMB'S WIFE. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me THAT GREAT CITY, the HOLY JERUSALEM descending out of heaven from God.

Revelation 21:1-2 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God, out of heaven, prepared as A BRIDE adorned for HER HUSBAND.

John, under inspiration of God calls New Jerusalem the Bride, the Lambs wife
and states that she has been prepared and adorned as THE bride for her husband (Jesus)

Why are such words used if the Church is THE BRIDE of Christ?

Address the future contex
t as found in these verses.

Matthew 25:1-13
Parable of the 10 virgins.....Vs. 10 And while they went to buy (foolish virgins), the bridegroom (CAME); and they that were ready WENT IN WITH HIM TO THE MARRIAGE: and the door was shut. ------->FUTURE CONTEXT

Revelation 21:1-3

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, PREPARED AS A BRIDE ADORNED FOR HER HUSBAND. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.----->FUTURE CONTEXT

Revelation 21:9-10

And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I WILL SHEW THEE THE BRIDE, THE LAMB’S WIFE. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that GREAT CITY, the HOLY JERUSALEM descending out of heaven from God.------->FUTURTE CONTEXT

2nd Corinthians 11:1-2
Would to God ye could bear with me in my folly: and indeed bear with me. For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.---->espoused does not equal marriage and supports FUTURE CONTEXT ---->betroth, woo, espoused--->not married

You know, that is the conclusion that I have come to. The unification of God with his people in New Jerusalem, which has yet to be fully recognized, and or come to fruition, as it takes place at the end of the age which has not transpired as of yet. Thanks for the reply and the thoughts!
 
Jan 19, 2013
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You know, that is the conclusion that I have come to.
The unification of God with his people in Jerusalem, which has yet to be fully recognized, and or come to fruition, as it takes place at the end of the age which has not transpired as of yet. Thanks for the reply and the thoughts!
Keeping in mind that the certain and unequivocal teaching of the NT
is not God with his people in Jerusalem,

but Christ the Lamb united with the New Jerusalem, his people, in a marriage, which is both
present--spiritually now,
and future--also bodily in the new heavens and new earth.
 
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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Keeping in mind that the certain and unequivocal teaching of the NT
is not God with his people in Jerusalem,

but Christ the Lamb united with the New Jerusalem, his people, in a marriage, which is both
present--spiritually now,
and future--also bodily in the new heavens and new earth.
We are to be married to Christ in the resurrected Christ right here right now in Spirit, see it in the allegory from Paul in Romans
[h=3]Romans 7:1-4[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. [SUP]3 [/SUP]So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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In this Letter to the angel of the Church in Philadlephia
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Who is the overcomer?
What is the Price?
Is the overcomer also the Price?
The over comer is Christ Jesus back at the cross where he took care of all needed for us to be redeemed in him here and now alive to God in the Spirit of God and we reckon self dead to flesh sin, by his death (Christ's). Can't see new life without being dead to old life
Therefore once we know we are ion Christ we are , have also overcome the world, no longer stressed out and worried thanks to Father through Son Jesus.

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In theworld ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcometheworld.

In the resurrection in Spirit that God gives us by belief in God who has called us to the reconciliation that is in Christ Jesus, we are then reconciled to God

2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

2 Corinthians 5:19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

What is the difference in reconcile and forgive? What is easier to say stand up and walk or your sins are forgiven?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,478
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In this Letter to the angel of the Church in Philadlephia
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Who is the overcomer?
What is the Price?
Is the overcomer also the Price?
Over comer Christ
Price: his physical death, the suffering, by his stripes the believers that have received are healed
Christ is the propitiation for all:
1 John 2:2 and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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We are to be married to Christ in the resurrected Christ right here right now in Spirit, see it in the allegory from Paul in Romans
Romans 7:1-4

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. [SUP]3 [/SUP]So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Homwardbound:
If that is your interpretation of those particular verses, you are entitled to it…
Just consider the following:
1. The verses were written to Jewish believers…parenthesis were put to distinguish as to whom it was addressed:
(and the dominion of the Law over a man)

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2. Law of marriage under Jewish/Mosaic Law (thou shall not commit adultery) is valid and was given as an example, as to the binding power of the Law (Mosaic Law) to THeM that Know the Law…
The woman is not free until the husband is dead…

Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

3. New Covenant with Christ…meaning dead to the Law (Jewish believer are not bound by the power of the Law anymore)
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
4. A Confirmation that Paul was talking about the power of the Law, The summary of (1,2 and 3)
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

AND AS YOU CONTINUE WITH THE REST OF THE VERSES…YOU WILL SEE IN FACT THAT HE WAS TALKING TO THOSE WHO KNOW THE LAW…AND ABOUT THE POWER OF THE LAW

Are you a Jewish Believer Homwardbound?

 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
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Originally Posted by watcher2013
In this Letter to the angel of the Church in Philadlephia
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Who is the overcomer?
What is the Price?
Is the overcomer also the Price?

Over comer Christ
Price: his physical death, the suffering, by his stripes the believers that have received are healed
Christ is the propitiation for all:
1 John 2:2 and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
should I add or rephrase my question...
Who was talking? Who is he, who will write his new name to the overcomer?