THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

[homwardbound]

Very good my friend. Hasn't happened yet, occurs at the resurreciton. All we have now is the down payment...

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

It is called the Spirit of promise because we have received the realization of it yet. We are holding on to the promise...

1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

We are in some pretty good company though...

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Yes not yet in the flesh, and is why we are to reckon as if dead to flesh and held alive by God's Spirit, to be able to walk as he walked here and now, in the Spirit
[h=3]John 4:23-24[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [SUP]24 [/SUP]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[homwardbound]

I am the wife, bride and body of Christ, the Lamb = church = New Jerusalem.

only in the Spirit for now presently right. Because right now there is no flesh that can please God, being in an unredeemed body we are to reckon self dead to flesh and alive to God in the resurrected Spirit of Christ, at least what I see from Scripture

 

[homwardbound]

No doubt and what a day that will be.

Yes yes, and yes again. waiting and thanking knowing one day it will be 100% the way it is suppose to be
Thanks

 

[homwardbound]

It would be better if you could add scripture references for more informed discussion.
Regarding husbandman, if you are referring to John 15:1-2, Husbandman there refers to the Farmer. (2kings 25:12, mat21:33)

read this whole thread no. 9, you will learn a lot.

If one has read well and understood they would see she posted well in the Spirit, for the reson in God's sight from God's vantage point there is neither male nor female and God has no respect of persons
God views not one better that the other, even though man flesh loves to sit in the seats of Moses, pray long prayers, and act as if they are righteous when no one is besides God. We all have the choice to first accept that fact, and thgen ask God to participate in God's righteousness, God getting all the credit not man. Seeing in the Spirit is far beyond what flesh can see

 

[john832]

I am the wife, bride and body of Christ, the Lamb = church = New Jerusalem.

This hasn't happened yet...

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Watched the evening news lately?

 

[john832]

Yes in deed...we are to take up our cross daily and like Joshua, choose you this day who you will serve.....

One of my very favorite scriptures...

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

 

[watcher2013]

If one has read well and understood they would see she posted well in the Spirit, for the reson in God's sight from God's vantage point there is neither male nor female and God has no respect of persons
God views not one better that the other, even though man flesh loves to sit in the seats of Moses, pray long prayers, and act as if they are righteous when no one is besides God. We all have the choice to first accept that fact, and thgen ask God to participate in God's righteousness, God getting all the credit not man. Seeing in the Spirit is far beyond what flesh can see

Homward:
you know what...False teaching are more on stories rather the biblical scriptures...
do you now attend worship in any of local churches?

 

[watcher2013]

only in the Spirit for now presently right. Because right now there is no flesh that can please God, being in an unredeemed body we are to reckon self dead to flesh and alive to God in the resurrected Spirit of Christ, at least what I see from Scripture

do not forget, the flesh and blood of Christ, covers the sins of those who trust in him...so God now looks at me through His Son and not by myself...
Do you pray to God homwardbound?

 

[Elin]

Elin,
i asked you the last question hoping that you will make sense.

I mistakenly thought this post was addressed to me, or I would not have responded to it.

But you have here stated the problem.

The certain and unequivocal teaching of the NT taken in its context is not true to you
unless it makes sense in terms of your theology, which is taken from your uncertain private
interpretation of prophetic riddles, and read into the certain didactical texts (eisegesis),
rather than letting the didactics speak for themselves in their context, and reading your
theology out of them (exegesis).

To make your theology fit the didactical texts, you wriggle, divide and separate what God has
joined (e.g., bride and wife of Christ, Christ and the Lamb, the church and the new Jerusalem).

In fact, the very basis of this theology is dividing, separating and multiplying things, events,
groups, etc. which in the context of NT didactics are one and the same, in this vain attempt to
force the didactical texts to fit your theology.

But you just showed that there are no more sense discussing this topic to you.
However, you can continue with this thread, maybe there are others who will entertain your non sense.

Assertion without demonstration is without merit.

The fundamental irresolvable problem is that you are wed to eisegesis, and I am wed to exegesis.

And that is where it will have to be left.

 

[Elin]

You can forget that one....it is easy to coin some stupid phrase that you can lump scripture under that contradicts the heretical teaching that one would spew, especially when the (lumped scripture) under said stupid coined phrase contradicts the heretical teaching that is being spewed by those who refuse to acknowledge scripture that is in a book that REVEALS TRUTH THAT IS MEANT TO BE UNDERSTOOD.

And yet, God said he gave prophecy in riddles to everyone but Moses (Nu 12:6-8).

You've got some reckoning to do.

 

[Elin]

only in the Spirit for now presently right. Because right now there is no flesh that can please God, being in an unredeemed body we are to reckon self dead to flesh and alive to God in the resurrected Spirit of Christ, at least what I see from Scripture

Right. . .justification, salvation, redemption, adoption, sanctification, etc. in the present
are all of our spirits, and also in the future when it will be of our bodies at the resurrection,
and when all creation will be restored.

It's all present as well as future.

 

[Elin]

This hasn't happened yet...

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Watched the evening news lately?

In addition to confounding time and eternity,
your uncertain private interpretation of prophetic riddles contradicts the certain NT
teaching of future redemptive realities being inaugurated in the present, so that
they are both present and future.

 

[watcher2013]

elin,
Let me just give examples where you show non sense:

Non sense No. 1 Your changes in view of Hebrew 12:22-23

Your First view,
Hebrew 12:21-23 Heavenly Jerusalem is the Church

But in Heb 12:22, the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God is the church (v. 23). Post no.39

Yes, the New Jerusalem is the church (Gal 4:25-26; Heb 12:22-23), Post no. 40

I thought it was self evident why I used that particular description of the church in the list since our subject is the church as the New Jerusalem
However, all in the list are a description of the church.
So what is it I need to consider in the writer's list describing the church? Post No 91

My Response re: Hebrew 12:22-23

Post no.42
These verses do not mean that Heavenly Jerusalem is the church…neither the innumerable company of angels nor God the judge of all…
But, the above list is what we look out for…and come to…to endure the race and trials in our struggle against sin…Heb 12:1-4

Post no 49
The verse is not a definition of Heavenly Jerusalem as the church...

Your Changed view of Heb 12:22-23 from Heavenly Jerusalem is the Church to Heavenly Jerusalem with the Church

Post no. 158
From the certain and unequivocal teaching of Heb 12:22-23, I know that
in the New Covenant, the Hebrew Christians had come from Mt. Sinai
to Mt. Zion,
Heb 12:22 identifies the heavenly city with the church.

Post no. 161
3) Heb 12:22-23 identifies the church with the heavenly Jerusalem,

Non sense no. 2
Ephesian 5:
Taking Eph 5:31 out of the whole Ephesian 5 context:

Your favourite verse:
Eph 5:31 - "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh."

My response can be found in

Post no 93

Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
THAT is your CAUSE your Reason…why verse 31 was said….Christ is the Head, we are the Body AND THAT IS WHY, THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.

See Detailed response to Eph 5 Post 162

Your response:
Post 164
Except for that part which says,
" 'a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
and the two will become one flesh.'. . .I am talking about Christ and the church."

Let me show you why it is included:
From Genesis…Bone of my bones..flesh of my flesh

Genesis 2:
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh

Then Ephesian…member of his body, of his flesh and of his bones
Ephesian 5:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Can you see now, Eph 5:31 is not excepted it was connected

Non sense no. 3:
No one can understand vision and dreams except Moses
Your view:
Post no. 158:
Prophecy is given in riddles whose meanings often are uncertain to us.
The meaning of prophecy is certain to us only
1) when it is explained Biblically (e.g., Da 2; Rev 17:15-18), or
2) when it is fulfilled.

Your latest response to DControversial
And yet, God said he gave prophecy in riddles to everyone but Moses (Nu 12:6-8).

To prove your point that no one can understand prophecies, vision and dreams you keep quoting Number 12:6-8…(written even before Daniels days)
Then I gave you the verse showing that Daniel understand vision and dreams…
then you said because God gave him understanding…Let me remind you..Daniel days was after Number 12:6-8, as our days are after Number 12:6-8

Non Sense no. 4
You are against prophetic riddles...yet you quote the book of revelation

Post no.40
the Bride of the Lamb (Rev 21:9), Jesus Christ (Jn 1:29, 36; 1Pe 1:19; Rev 13:8).

Nonsense No. 5
My response to your unequivocal teaching
Post 162
What is the difference between unequivocal teaching and prophetic riddles?
When you consider 2Pet 3:10-13 as unequivocal teaching, and Rev 21:1-2 as riddles.

Hope this will help you to light up...

 

[dcontroversal]

One of my very favorite scriptures...

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Yes in deed and one of my favorite as well.....they are all my favorite though hah....My house serves the Lord and God willing (which HE is) we will continue to bow before his throne (Jesus)

 

[dcontroversal]

And yet, God said he gave prophecy in riddles to everyone but Moses (Nu 12:6-8).

You've got some reckoning to do.

Oh I am sure as we all do...but one thing I know for sure is that I will not have to answer to God for chunking and lumping revealed truth under some idiotic statement based upon 1 verse out of context so as to teach heresy while being willing to be closedminded to revealed truths that would open ones eyes to the fallacy of the heresy that is being spread by those who would do such things as described in this post!

 

[Elin]

elin,
Let me just give examples where you show non sense:

Non sense No. 1 Your changes in view of Hebrew 12:22-23

Your First view,
Hebrew 12:21-23 Heavenly Jerusalem is the Church
But in Heb 12:22, the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God is the church (v. 23). Post no.39
Yes, the New Jerusalem is the church (Gal 4:25-26; Heb 12:22-23), Post no. 40

I thought it was self evident why I used that particular description of the church in the list since our subject is the church as the New Jerusalem
However, all in the list are a description of the church.
So what is it I need to consider in the writer's list describing the church? Post No 91

My Response re: Hebrew 12:22-23, Post no.42
These verses do not mean that Heavenly Jerusalem is the church…neither the innumerable company of angels nor God the judge of all…
But, the above list is what we look out for…and come to…to endure the race and trials in our struggle against sin…Heb 12:1-4

Post no 49 - The verse is not a definition of Heavenly Jerusalem as the church...

Your Changed view of Heb 12:22-23 from Heavenly Jerusalem is the Church to Heavenly Jerusalem with the Church

Good job of collecting the data. . .but more confusion.

Heavenly Jerusalem is identified with the church, it is not with the church.

Post no. 158

- From the certain and unequivocal teaching of Heb 12:22-23, I know that
in the New Covenant, the Hebrew Christians had come from Mt. Sinai to Mt. Zion,
Heb 12:22 identifies the heavenly city with the church.

Post no. 161 - 3) Heb 12:22-23 identifies the church with the heavenly Jerusalem,

That is correct, and I asked what the difference was, and you did not respond.
And you still do not respond to my question of what is the difference.

To identify the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God, thousands of angels,
church of the firstborn, God the judge of all men, the spirits of OT saints, Jesus the mediator
and the sprinkled blood, all with Mt. Zion in contrast to Mt. Sinai, is to identify all with the new
covenant in contrast to the old covenant. And those of the new covenant are the church.

There are none of the new covenant who are outside the church, and
there are none of the church who are outside the new covenant.

Does that make it clear?

I likewise stated that I am the bride, wife, and body of Christ the Lamb = church = New Jerusalem.

Non sense no. 2
Ephesian 5: Taking Eph 5:31 out of the whole Ephesian 5 context:

Your favourite verse:

Eph 5:31 - "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh."

My response can be found in
Post no 93 - Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
THAT is your CAUSE your Reason…why verse 31 was said….Christ is the Head, we are the Body AND THAT IS WHY, THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.

Okay, our problem arose because my Greek manuscript does not have "of his flesh, and of his bones."
It has only "members of his body," and I didn't recognize it as Ge 2:23.
However, the meanings are the same.

So I agree with you, because we are his body and he is the head (established in 1:22-23),
we are, therefore, united with him in the two-in-one enfleshment of the marital union,

just as, because Eve was his body, she and Adam were united in the two-in-one enfleshment
of the marital union.

So the church is the wife of Christ the Lamb in the two-in-one enfleshment of the marital union.

Non sense no. 3:
No one can understand vision and dreams except Moses
Your view:
Post no. 158: - Prophecy is given in riddles whose meanings often are uncertain to us.
The meaning of prophecy is certain to us only
1) when it is explained Biblically (e.g., Da 2; Rev 17:15-18), or
2) when it is fulfilled.

Your latest response to DControversial
And yet, God said he gave prophecy in riddles to everyone but Moses (Nu 12:6-8).

To prove your point that no one can understand prophecies, vision and dreams you keep quoting Number 12:6-8…(written even before Daniels days)

Such confusion. . .are you paying attention?

Why have you left out the part where I explained to you that no one today,
apart from God giving the explanation, can interpret prophetic riddles with certainty.

What part of:
Daniel was certain because God told him personally the meaning of the riddle,
in a revelation separate from the prophetic riddle itself,
and we today are not certain of the meaning of unfulfilled prophetic riddles
because God is not telling us personally today what the meanings are,
do you not understand?

Then I gave the verse showing that Daniel understand vision and dreams…
then you said because God gave him understanding…Let me remind you..Daniel days was after Number 12:6-8, as our days are after Number 12:6-8

You are not making sense. . .such confusion.

How much understanding did anyone have of the riddle before God explained the meaning?
So in the context of uncertain private interpretation of prophetic riddles, are you saying God is explaining
the meaning of prophetic riddles today, so our understanding of them is certain, as was Daniel's?

Non Sense no. 4
You are against prophetic riddles...yet you quote the book of revelation

Post no.40 - the Bride of the Lamb (Rev 21:9), Jesus Christ (Jn 1:29, 36; 1Pe 1:19; Rev 13:8

Such confusion. . .I assume by "against," you mean I don't use them because their meaning
is not certain. However,

I'm not "interpreting" wife and bride of Christ is the church, rather Eph 5:31-32 does that.
I'm not "interpreting" the church is the new Jerusalem, rather Gal 4:25-26; Heb 12:22 do that.
I'm not "interpreting" Jesus is the Lamb, rather Jn 1:29, 36; 1Pe 1:19 do that.

When "wife and bride of Christ" appear in NT prophecy, I know to what it is referring.
When "new Jerusalem, heavenly city, city above" appear in NT prophecy, I know to what it is referring.
When "the Lamb" appears in NT prophecy, I know to what it is referring.

You are so accustomed to a theology which divides and separates things which are the same,
you can't even see that those appelations refer to one and the same things, wherever they
are found in the NT, prophecy included.

Nonsense No. 5
My response to your unequivocal teaching
Post 162 - What is the difference between unequivocal teaching and prophetic riddles?
When you consider 2Pet 3:10-13 as unequivocal teaching, and Rev 21:1-2 as riddles.

More confusion. . .I explained that completely.
It falls in the same category as the appellations of your item #4.
I refer you to my previous response regarding it.

And thanks for all your work.
It is helpful to know where the confusion lies.

 

[Elin]

Oh I am sure as we all do...but one thing I know for sure is that I will not have to answer to God for chunking and lumping revealed truth under some idiotic statement based upon 1 verse out of context so as to teach heresy while being willing to be closedminded to revealed truths that would open ones eyes to the fallacy of the heresy that is being spread by those who would do such things as described in this post!

Are you sure about that?

 

[watcher2013]

Elin,
that greek manuscripts of yours, was that the original greek manuscript or just another version of your non sense?

 

[dcontroversal]

Are you sure about that?

Yes I am sure....Jesus told his disciples that it is given unto us to know the mysteries of the Kingdom. The book of Revelation is meant to be understood, not lumped under some idiotic statement so as to support the heresy that you spread due to your unwillingness to be open to learning and instruction.

On top of that Watcher 2013 is correct...you willingly contradict yourself by quoting Revelation when you want to twist and (spin) your heretical theology, but then conveniently (lump revealed truth that contradicts your heresy) under the idiotic statement that you either coined or (borrowed) from some other unbeliever!

 

[dcontroversal]

Elin,
that greek manuscripts of yours, was that the original greek manuscript or just another version of your non sense?

No doubt, it amazes e how many will twist the scripture, conveniently leave out parts of Revelation that contradict their heresy while lumping it under some moronic statement that has been coined or (borrowed) and then turn around a quote scripture from the same book which now can magically be understood as long as it supports the heresy that is being spread by someone who seemingly doesn't understand as much as they think they understand.