THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

[Elin]

Okay, you're confusing separate covenants/cities with united peoples in the allegory of Gal 4:21-27.

Covenants are Old (slavery to law) and New (freedom in Christ).
Earthly Jerusalem represents those under the old covenant.
Jerusalem that is above represents those under the new covenant.

The church is the union of the former OT people of God with the NT people of God,
in the one people of God, who are all in Christ, the true seed of Abraham (Gal 3:29).

You will never understand Christian doctrine correctly if you do not believe all of the NT,

but rather divide and separate believing Jews from believing Gentiles in God's one people
of all time, the true seed of Abraham (Gal 3:29).

You must stop dividing and separating what God has joined; i.e., OT and NT saints in the church,
the one people of God for all time and eternity.

I refer you back to your post no 91

Addressed above.

The only thing that could be added is to point out

that the covenants of Gal 4:21-27 represent those living under the covenants,
not those departed under the covenants.

And in that sense of living people of the allegory, the people are separate.

There is an allegorical separation in those living under separate covenants of the allegory,

but since the death of Christ, all God's people are one in Christ (Eph 3:6),
in one people of God,

all being the true seed of Abraham (Gal 3:29),
with the spirits of all deceased saints being in the church of the firstborn (redeemed),
which is the one people of God (Heb 12:23).

Messianic reasoning based in unbelief of a large part of the NT can never correctly understand the NT,
for it seeks to divide and separate what God has joined.

 

[watcher2013]

well lets look at your post here..
Zec 14:17
And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

so we are going to need rain in heaven?

and we will be punished in heaven? because we can still sin??
Zec 14:18
And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

This is tallking abou tthe heavenly jerusalem?? How is it so>?

Zec 14:19
This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

and this is heaven?




yes, but after all the things spoken in isa 60 and the passage you just posted have already taken place.

do you see it yet?

So you agree that the new Jerusalem John was talking will be on earth.

Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

you only disagree that Isaiah was talking about the Jerusalem (considering as well the new heaven and new earth in Isaiah 65) before John Jerusalem.

Despite the similarity;
Isa 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
Isa 60:20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
No need of the Sun because the LORD shall be the "EVERLASTING" light, and the DAYS of MOURNING ENDED.


so there will be two...New Heaven and two New earth?

 

[Hoffco]

You know, you get so confused when you try to use the old Testament so much, instead, why not just believe the writings of the new. T. as the final word from God.! then try to see how the O.T. fits into the N.T. Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

Watcher2013, you are RIGHT on!. Elin, Sorry, but you are as shallow as always, and Yahshur ,you are so confused. ??? The CHURCH of Christ and the city of God, New Jerusalem are ONE and the same thing, They, together, are the Church of God, made up of the O.T. and the N.T. people of God ,the "elect" of God ,of all ages, all saved by the blood of Christ. LOVE to all, Hoffco Please, read the Bible in its whole "context".

 

[watcher2013]

in addition EG:
The reference of John vision regarding the New Jerusalem: The New Jerusalem descends when the FiRST HEAVEN AND FIRST EARTH PASSED AWAY...

Are we living in the first heaven and first earth?
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Now Isaiah's vision has no reference...whether it be the first heaven or the second heaven...If we are going to based the interpretation as to the new heaven and new earth....John vision of New Jerusalem, must come before Isaiah vision because the New Jerusalem of John was clearly after the first...
But I do believed they are talking of the same.

 

[Hoffco]

The last chapter of the Bible speaks volumes.! We also see ,there will still be nations on the New Earth. Israel and all the nations of the world will be there. WELL, So be it, like it or lump it. man, that is what God says.! Let "GOD be true and every man a liar." Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Elin]

Elin, Sorry, but you are as shallow as always,

You do realize, of course, that assertion without demonstration is without merit.

The CHURCH of Christ and the city of God, New Jerusalem are ONE and the same thing, They, together, are the Church of God,
made up of the O.T. and the N.T. people of God ,the "elect" of God ,of all ages,
all saved by the blood of Christ.

Have I said otherwise?

Did you not just refute your own assertion above?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so there will be two...New Heaven and two New earth?

why would there be two new ones?

Read what i posted. the ones I posted is the jerusalem that is here now. during the millenial regn of Christ immediately following the tribulation. Thats why there is still sin and punishment in those days at that jerusalem.

it is not a new one, it is a rebuilt and restored one is it not?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You know, you get so confused when you try to use the old Testament so much, instead, why not just believe the writings of the new. T. as the final word from God.! then try to see how the O.T. fits into the N.T. Hoffco

that would be dangerous and one sided.

The Logos (word) includes both testaments. Not just one

 

[eternally-gratefull]

in addition EG:
The reference of John vision regarding the New Jerusalem: The New Jerusalem descends when the FiRST HEAVEN AND FIRST EARTH PASSED AWAY...

Are we living in the first heaven and first earth?
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Now Isaiah's vision has no reference...whether it be the first heaven or the second heaven...If we are going to based the interpretation as to the new heaven and new earth....John vision of New Jerusalem, must come before Isaiah vision because the New Jerusalem of John was clearly after the first...
But I do believed they are talking of the same.

Bro. I am not talking about Johns Vision. Yes that is the new one.

I am talking about the prophesies in the OT,

There will be no need for rain in the new jerusalem.
there will be no night and day in the new jerusalem
God is buillding the new jersualem. The one in the OT prophesies you quoted have men rebuilding it
Gods riches will be in the new jerusalem. Not the mesn riches, which are seen in the OT prophesies
There will be one nation in the new (all of us) not the many kings and nations found in the OT prophesies you showed.

They are not the same.

 

[watcher2013]

Bro. I am not talking about Johns Vision. Yes that is the new one.

I am talking about the prophesies in the OT,

There will be no need for rain in the new jerusalem.
there will be no night and day in the new jerusalem
God is buillding the new jersualem. The one in the OT prophesies you quoted have men rebuilding it
Gods riches will be in the new jerusalem. Not the mesn riches, which are seen in the OT prophesies
There will be one nation in the new (all of us) not the many kings and nations found in the OT prophesies you showed.

They are not the same.

God destroy the first temple didn't He?

oh...its Babylon




Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

how many nations? how many kings?

Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

 

[Hoffco]

Please, listen to watcher2013, eternal-greatful, I am not sure what you are saying??? but the new Jerusalem of Rev21 is the same as the Father's house, in Jh.14 and Jesus IS building IT for us NOW. Is his what you are saying? if so, I agree. Love to all , Hoffco

 

[dcontroversal]

that would be dangerous and one sided.

The Logos (word) includes both testaments. Not just one

I would agree with this as both were given by God and both supplement each other not to mention Jesus referenced it (O.T.) a multitude of times and also stated clearly that the (O.T.) testifies of Him (Jesus)

 

[Hoffco]

I am not being disrespecting the Old T.; I am saying the New is the interpretation of the old. Not the other way, the old is toooo confusing on eschtalogy and other doctrines, to be of definitive help, it can only fill out the new T. as it is "rightly divided" by the New T.. As we read the Old T. we all see the confusion of it running thoughts together which are 1,000's of yrs. apart. like, the new Heaven and the new earth,, millennial truths, are mixed the, then, current earthly issues. Even 2Thess.2: mixes end time trues ,one with another, which makes for hard interpretation of the end time events ,without other n.T. passages to help. Love The Word, Hoffco

 

[dcontroversal]

I am not being disrespecting the Old T.; I am saying the New is the interpretation of the old. Not the other way, the old is toooo confusing on eschtalogy and other doctrines, to be of definitive help, it can only fill out the new T. as it is "rightly divided" by the New T.. As we read the Old T. we all see the confusion of it running thoughts together which are 1,000's of yrs. apart. like, the new Heaven and the new earth,, millennial truths, are mixed the, then, current earthly issues. Even 2Thess.2: mixes end time trues ,one with another, which makes for hard interpretation of the end time events ,without other n.T. passages to help. Love The Word, Hoffco

Hey Hoffco, For the record, I don't believe you were being disrespectful about the O.T. and I actually love the O.T. and stand amazed at the amount of (future tense), (end times), (last days) teaching that is actually in it.....

I just prefer to use both to supplement the over all picture......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God destroy the first temple didn't He?

oh...its Babylon




Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

how many nations? how many kings?

Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

so there is sin in heaven? There is punishment with those living in heaven, because they STILL sin? I guess God's promise of no more suffering, pain death and sin is nto true? Because that is what those OT prophesy's you posted claim happen in that city.

The jerusalem of the OT your talking about was spoken of by John.

It is called the thousand year millennial reign of Christ.

The new Jerusalem follow that.

 

[Hoffco]

The first coming of Christ was confusing to the disciples, So the 2nd coming of Christ is confusing to us, until it all gets played out, then it will be a "more sure word of prophecy.", after the fact, God will give the definitive interpretation, Interpretations belongs to God only.! Love to all Hoffco

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please, listen to watcher2013, eternal-greatful, I am not sure what you are saying??? but the new Jerusalem of Rev21 is the same as the Father's house, in Jh.14 and Jesus IS building IT for us NOW. Is his what you are saying? if so, I agree. Love to all , Hoffco

Please listen to me hofco.

I am talking about the jerusalem in the OT prophesies. Which is not the same as the new jerusalem. They are not the same.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would agree with this as both were given by God and both supplement each other not to mention Jesus referenced it (O.T.) a multitude of times and also stated clearly that the (O.T.) testifies of Him (Jesus)

I am not sure why people think the OT does not relate to us today. And we can just ignore it. or try to force it to meet some NT things which has not occured yet.

Its nuts!

 

[Hoffco]

dconroversal. I know you love God's word and I see you are "right on" in all you have said, keep up the good work you are doing.! Love in Christ, Hoffco