The Catholic Charismatic ATTACK EXPOSED!

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#81
Well I am not Catholic nor have Catholic family, but I do know Catholics from town and life, and none worship Mary. Like I said for what I have seen and heard of them, for my generation, the problem moreso with Catholics as it pertains to Christendom is lack of faith, doubt, unbelief, issues like that sort. The Catholics are the oldest and one of the most orthodox denominations of Christendom still existing, so they have much good towards Christendom, much knowledge, much wisdom and history of Christendom in the line of the religion of Christianity as a whole from the last books of the Bible to today. It is ironic their problems are in unbelief and doubt and lack of faith for they actually hold a large key and many proofs of the lesser and historical and scientific nature for Christianity if only they would look and believe. It may be true that they are lost and irreparable, but it also may be possible to salvage them too just like the other denominations.

Let me ask you; why do you think it be hatred to try to reunify Christendom? You worry that by trying people will lose salvation? Salvation is of the Lord it is nothing you or I or the Pope or the Patriarch or a Charismatic pastor can take away nor give.

Pope believe Mary able to protect him

Mother Mary holding John Paul II in Her arms when he was shot in 1981.(click on the picture for original sized image)This happened on May 13, 1981. Pope John Paul II was shot as he arrived in St. Peter’s Square to speak to the people who had gathered there. When he was shot, he was holding the rosary, which he always carried. When he fell to the ground, out of nowhere, a woman rushed to his side and embraced him. That pic is shown above. The picture is said to have been taken by one of the gathered people who was busy taking Pope’s pics with his camera. The woman vanished as quickly as she appeared.The gunman was apprehended in the square and sentenced to life in prison. The pope was critically wounded but survived after surgery and a long recovery. The surprising fact is that all the bullets passed just past his vital internal organs. When he recovered finally, the first thing Pope asked for was his rosary. When he got it in his hands,

he said that he felt Mother Mary directing the bullets’ path through him. Sure, John Paul II was always in the habit of praying the rosary regularly. He had once said “The best prayer I like is the Rosary”.


Read more at Mother Mary Holding John Paul II In Her Arms When He Was Shot Mother Mary Holding John Paul II In Her Arms When He Was Shot


let me repeat this sentence
he(pope) felt Mother Mary directing the bullet path through him

to me It is non biblical believe.

It mean pope believe Mary like God, her spirit has ability to protect bilions catholic, she must omni present like God

to exalt Mary AS a God is blasphemy


 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#82
That doesn't answer the question.
Does Jesus love His mother? Regarding your off topic verse, did Mary do the will of God?
Does Jesus love His mother more than He loves you? Does Jesus have respect of persons?

Did Mary do the will of God? A rhetorical question? Are you doing the will of God?

Jesus died on the cross of Calvary for His mother's sin just the same as you sin and mine.

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
660
15
18
#83
Non-Catholics / Protestants are far more obsessed with Mary than Catholics. It's a topic that comes up whenever the "C" word shows up. Mary, Mary, Mary, as if that is all there is to Catholicism.
Big news, folks: no Catholic is forced to pray to Mary.
"pray to" is short hand for asking for intercession, it does not mean "worship".
Mary can't do anything without God, to suggest otherwise is just anti-Catholic myth making.

It's understood in Catholic spirituality and theology that any of us can pray to God at any time. The Bible emphasizes relationship to God, as sons and daughters to a Father. That said, there is also the practice of praying for each other. Our Protestant brethren in Christ (who generally reject intercession of the saints) accept the notion of “getting a holy man [or the pastor, etc.] to pray for you.”Hence, a person would, for example, ask Billy Graham to pray for them, because it is thought that somehow his prayer might have more effect. This intuition is actually based on explicit biblical testimony:


James 5:14-18

Note here that the Bible itself recommends asking someone else to pray: “the elders” of the Church, who, like other Church leaders (1 Tim 3:1-13; Titus 1:7), are supposed to be of exemplary character, and “worthy of double honor” (1 Tim 5:17). They have more power, due to their ordination.

To nail down his point, St. James cites the example of the prophet Elijah. When he prayed, it didn't rain for three-and-a-half years. James says this was the case because (here is the principle he wishes to convey): “The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.” We see the same dynamic in the following passage:


1 Kings 13:6

This is the biblical rationale for asking others, of more spiritual stature in the kingdom, or holier (or, best of all, both!) to pray for us. But that is not yet the same as asking a (dead) saint to pray for us. How does one arrive at that conclusion? It takes a little more work, but it is possible to ground it, too, in Scripture.


In Revelation 5:8, the “twenty-four elders” (usually regarded by commentators as dead human beings) “fell down before the Lamb . . . with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” They appear to have other people's prayers, to present to God. So the obvious question is: what are they doing with them? Why does Revelation present dead saints presenting the prayers of other saints to God?
If they have them, it stands to reason as a rather straightforward deduction, that they heard the initial prayers as well, or at least were granted knowledge of them in some fashion: ultimately through the power of God. Revelation 8:3-4 is even more explicit. Rather than equating incense and prayers, it actually distinguishes between them, and presents the scenario that the prayers and incense are presented together:
And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; [4] and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.


It seems clear that they have heard the prayers of men, and are involved as intercessors. Angels are extremely intelligent beings. We know that they rejoice when a sinner repents. They have knowledge in ways that we do not; above our comprehension.
This is biblical proof that dead saints and angels both somehow know about our prayers and present them to God. They are acting as intercessors and intermediaries. How do they hear our prayers? God gives them the power to do so because they are in heaven and therefore, outside of time. They are aware of earthly events. We know that from Hebrews 12:1 (“we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses”) and from Revelation 6:9-10, where dead saints are praying for those on the earth.

We also know of several incidents where dead men (even some from heaven) interact with those on earth:
the Transfiguration (Mt 17:1-3 / Mk 9:4 / Lk 9:30-31),
the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11:3-13,
the prophet Samuel (not just a demon impersonating him: 1 Sam 28:7-20),
and “many bodies of the saints” that came out of their graves after Jesus' Resurrection and went into Jerusalem, appearing to many (Mt 27:50-53)



This is our entire rationale for asking saints to pray to God for us: all in perfect harmony with the Bible:
1) Holy men and women's prayers have great power.
2) Dead saints are perfected in holiness and are still part of the Body of Christ.
3) The Blessed Virgin Mary in particular is exceptionally holy (Immaculate Conception) and as the Mother of God, her prayers have more power and effect than that of any other creature: all by God's grace.
4) We know that they are aware (or are made aware) of earthly events.
5) We know that they exercise much charity and pray for us.
Why Would Anyone Pray to Saints Rather Than to God?









 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#84
Non-Catholics / Protestants are far more obsessed with Mary than Catholics. It's a topic that comes up whenever the "C" word shows up. Mary, Mary, Mary, as if that is all there is to Catholicism.
Big news, folks: no Catholic is forced to pray to Mary.
"pray to" is short hand for asking for intercession, it does not mean "worship".
Mary can't do anything without God, to suggest otherwise is just anti-Catholic myth making.

It's understood in Catholic spirituality and theology that any of us can pray to God at any time. The Bible emphasizes relationship to God, as sons and daughters to a Father. That said, there is also the practice of praying for each other. Our Protestant brethren in Christ (who generally reject intercession of the saints) accept the notion of “getting a holy man [or the pastor, etc.] to pray for you.”Hence, a person would, for example, ask Billy Graham to pray for them, because it is thought that somehow his prayer might have more effect. This intuition is actually based on explicit biblical testimony:


James 5:14-18

Note here that the Bible itself recommends asking someone else to pray: “the elders” of the Church, who, like other Church leaders (1 Tim 3:1-13; Titus 1:7), are supposed to be of exemplary character, and “worthy of double honor” (1 Tim 5:17). They have more power, due to their ordination.

To nail down his point, St. James cites the example of the prophet Elijah. When he prayed, it didn't rain for three-and-a-half years. James says this was the case because (here is the principle he wishes to convey): “The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.” We see the same dynamic in the following passage:


1 Kings 13:6

This is the biblical rationale for asking others, of more spiritual stature in the kingdom, or holier (or, best of all, both!) to pray for us. But that is not yet the same as asking a (dead) saint to pray for us. How does one arrive at that conclusion? It takes a little more work, but it is possible to ground it, too, in Scripture.


In Revelation 5:8, the “twenty-four elders” (usually regarded by commentators as dead human beings) “fell down before the Lamb . . . with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” They appear to have other people's prayers, to present to God. So the obvious question is: what are they doing with them? Why does Revelation present dead saints presenting the prayers of other saints to God?
If they have them, it stands to reason as a rather straightforward deduction, that they heard the initial prayers as well, or at least were granted knowledge of them in some fashion: ultimately through the power of God. Revelation 8:3-4 is even more explicit. Rather than equating incense and prayers, it actually distinguishes between them, and presents the scenario that the prayers and incense are presented together:
And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; [4] and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.


It seems clear that they have heard the prayers of men, and are involved as intercessors. Angels are extremely intelligent beings. We know that they rejoice when a sinner repents. They have knowledge in ways that we do not; above our comprehension.
This is biblical proof that dead saints and angels both somehow know about our prayers and present them to God. They are acting as intercessors and intermediaries. How do they hear our prayers? God gives them the power to do so because they are in heaven and therefore, outside of time. They are aware of earthly events. We know that from Hebrews 12:1 (“we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses”) and from Revelation 6:9-10, where dead saints are praying for those on the earth.

We also know of several incidents where dead men (even some from heaven) interact with those on earth:
the Transfiguration (Mt 17:1-3 / Mk 9:4 / Lk 9:30-31),
the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11:3-13,
the prophet Samuel (not just a demon impersonating him: 1 Sam 28:7-20),
and “many bodies of the saints” that came out of their graves after Jesus' Resurrection and went into Jerusalem, appearing to many (Mt 27:50-53)



This is our entire rationale for asking saints to pray to God for us: all in perfect harmony with the Bible:
1) Holy men and women's prayers have great power.
2) Dead saints are perfected in holiness and are still part of the Body of Christ.
3) The Blessed Virgin Mary in particular is exceptionally holy (Immaculate Conception) and as the Mother of God, her prayers have more power and effect than that of any other creature: all by God's grace.
4) We know that they are aware (or are made aware) of earthly events.
5) We know that they exercise much charity and pray for us.
Why Would Anyone Pray to Saints Rather Than to God?









Let me see what do they call it when they say one thing and then do the complete opposite?

They say we do not worship Mary yet they have images of Mary in their homes and they pray before these images asking her to intercede on their behalf with her Son Jesus.

Jesus said come unto Me not come unto Mary. The Father draws men to Christ not to Mary. Adoration does not suit Mary.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 23, 2014
702
4
0
#85
Does that Chalcolithic Church still pray to false gods(Mary and the saints), do they still in believing praying for the dead in purgatory? If yes, no matter what they are still a cult.
When people collectively spit in the face of Christians is this a sine of cultism?

just asking :)-

[h=1]Re: why do Christianssupport Israel-?? [/h]Christians in JerusalemWant Jews to Stop Spitting on Them


A few weeks ago, a seniorGreek Orthodox clergyman in Israel attended a meeting at a governmentoffice in Jerusalem's Givat Shaul quarter. When he returned to hiscar, an elderly man wearing a skullcap came and knocked on thewindow.
read more:

http://www.haaretz.com/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-


Senior Catholic Cleric:'If Jews Want Respect, They Must Respect Others'
read more:

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...ant-respect-they-must-respect-others-1.463320


[h=1]Holy Spit: Why Do Ultra-OrthodoxJews Spit at Christians?[/h]Holy Spit: Why Do Ultra-Orthodox Jews Spit at Christians? | Religion Dispatches
[h=1]Being spat at remains part of lifefor Christians in Jerusalem[/h]Being spat at remains part of life for Christians in Jerusalem


Because theylike being spat on, that's why


[h=1]Being spat at remains part of lifefor Christians in Jerusalem[/h]By Paul Woodward, November5, 2011
Being spat at remains part of life for Christians in Jerusalem


[h=1]Holy Spit: Why Do Ultra-OrthodoxJews Spit at Christians?[/h]Holy Spit: Why Do Ultra-Orthodox Jews Spit at Christians? | Religion Dispatches


[h=1]Mouths filled with hatred [/h]Father Samuel Aghoyan, asenior Armenian Orthodox cleric in Jerusalem's Old City, says he'sbeen spat at by young haredi and national Orthodox Jews "about15 to 20 times"
Mouths filled with hatred - Magazine - Jerusalem Post

When people collectively spit in the face of Christians is this a sine of cultism?

just asking :)-

 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#86
I am not in favor of praying to Mary, but a close friend who is a catholic explained it to me.

She said that it is like the wedding celebration in Cana where the servants told Mary of their need and Mary interceded to Jesus for Him to do something.

To pray means to intercede, to beg, to ask. So in that light it doesn't seem too outrageous to ask Jesus' mom to ask Jesus for help.

Just a thought.
But, what was her response to the servants? Whatsoever He tells you to do, do it. She reverted back to her Son.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#87
Non-Catholics / Protestants are far more obsessed with Mary than Catholics. It's a topic that comes up whenever the "C" word shows up. Mary, Mary, Mary, as if that is all there is to Catholicism.
Big news, folks: no Catholic is forced to pray to Mary.
"pray to" is short hand for asking for intercession, it does not mean "worship".
Mary can't do anything without God, to suggest otherwise is just anti-Catholic myth making.

It's understood in Catholic spirituality and theology that any of us can pray to God at any time. The Bible emphasizes relationship to God, as sons and daughters to a Father. That said, there is also the practice of praying for each other. Our Protestant brethren in Christ (who generally reject intercession of the saints) accept the notion of “getting a holy man [or the pastor, etc.] to pray for you.”Hence, a person would, for example, ask Billy Graham to pray for them, because it is thought that somehow his prayer might have more effect. This intuition is actually based on explicit biblical testimony:


James 5:14-18

Note here that the Bible itself recommends asking someone else to pray: “the elders” of the Church, who, like other Church leaders (1 Tim 3:1-13; Titus 1:7), are supposed to be of exemplary character, and “worthy of double honor” (1 Tim 5:17). They have more power, due to their ordination.

To nail down his point, St. James cites the example of the prophet Elijah. When he prayed, it didn't rain for three-and-a-half years. James says this was the case because (here is the principle he wishes to convey): “The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.” We see the same dynamic in the following passage:


1 Kings 13:6

This is the biblical rationale for asking others, of more spiritual stature in the kingdom, or holier (or, best of all, both!) to pray for us. But that is not yet the same as asking a (dead) saint to pray for us. How does one arrive at that conclusion? It takes a little more work, but it is possible to ground it, too, in Scripture.


In Revelation 5:8, the “twenty-four elders” (usually regarded by commentators as dead human beings) “fell down before the Lamb . . . with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” They appear to have other people's prayers, to present to God. So the obvious question is: what are they doing with them? Why does Revelation present dead saints presenting the prayers of other saints to God?
If they have them, it stands to reason as a rather straightforward deduction, that they heard the initial prayers as well, or at least were granted knowledge of them in some fashion: ultimately through the power of God. Revelation 8:3-4 is even more explicit. Rather than equating incense and prayers, it actually distinguishes between them, and presents the scenario that the prayers and incense are presented together:
And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; [4] and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.


It seems clear that they have heard the prayers of men, and are involved as intercessors. Angels are extremely intelligent beings. We know that they rejoice when a sinner repents. They have knowledge in ways that we do not; above our comprehension.
This is biblical proof that dead saints and angels both somehow know about our prayers and present them to God. They are acting as intercessors and intermediaries. How do they hear our prayers? God gives them the power to do so because they are in heaven and therefore, outside of time. They are aware of earthly events. We know that from Hebrews 12:1 (“we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses”) and from Revelation 6:9-10, where dead saints are praying for those on the earth.

We also know of several incidents where dead men (even some from heaven) interact with those on earth:
the Transfiguration (Mt 17:1-3 / Mk 9:4 / Lk 9:30-31),
the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11:3-13,
the prophet Samuel (not just a demon impersonating him: 1 Sam 28:7-20),
and “many bodies of the saints” that came out of their graves after Jesus' Resurrection and went into Jerusalem, appearing to many (Mt 27:50-53)



This is our entire rationale for asking saints to pray to God for us: all in perfect harmony with the Bible:
1) Holy men and women's prayers have great power.
2) Dead saints are perfected in holiness and are still part of the Body of Christ.
3) The Blessed Virgin Mary in particular is exceptionally holy (Immaculate Conception) and as the Mother of God, her prayers have more power and effect than that of any other creature: all by God's grace.
4) We know that they are aware (or are made aware) of earthly events.
5) We know that they exercise much charity and pray for us.
Why Would Anyone Pray to Saints Rather Than to God?









ask the people that is not in the body anymore is unbiblical. Yes we AS pastor that still in the body to pray for us, but not to his soul.

in my country catholic not only asking Mary for pray to them but there is pray directing to Mary

asking to pray start with please pray for me.

praying to, start with bless me or oh mother protect my family. If you Google Translate this pray, you Will see It is combination between praying to and asking to pray

and the title is praying to Mary

brother you better honest and choose bible or catholic. You can not choose both.

DOA KELUARGA KEPADA BUNDA MARIASanta Maria Bunda Allah dan Bunda kami juga ,
kami serahkan segenap keluarga kami,
dan apa yang kami cintai dan miliki,
kami serahkan kepada perlindunganmu dan doa restumu,
kuasailah rumah kami, terimalah kami semua sebagai milikmu.
Dengan bimbinganmu ya Bunda,
Kami ingin mentaati perintah Allah dan Gereja.
Berilah kami kekuatan,agar didalam kesulitan yang beratpun,
kami tetap teguh bertahan dalam iman, dan setia kepada Anakmu
Bantulah agar dalam segala persoalan hidup,
kami dapat mengambil keputusan yang tepat.
Hantarlah kami seutuhnya dalam pengabdian kepada Anakmu,
agar semakin menyerupai engkau dalam kasihmu kepada Allah.
Anugerahilah kami rahmat,
supaya semakin mampu memancarkan sinar kasihmu
dalam lingkungan dan masyarakat kami.
Bimbinglah agar keluarga kami sungguh-sungguh menjadi sel perdamaian
serta kerukunan bagi semua golongan dan masyarakat kami.
Agar orang yang tersandung dan tersesat hidupnya
dapat melihat terang yang membebaskan.
Kuatkanlah kami dan berilah kami keberanian serta kerelaan
membawa silih atas semua dosa dan kedurhakaan di sekeliling kami,
dengan setiap hari mempersembahkan karya kami.
Ya Bunda, terimalah kami di dalam hatimu,
yang penuh keibuan dan tahan uji dalam derita.
Bimbinglah kami,
agar semakin dalam kami menyelami rahasia Putramu yang Illahi,
Dialah yang menentukan jalan kebenaran serta kehidupan,
hari ini dan sepanjang hidup kami.
Amin

I Will Translate the title

A family pray to mother mary


 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,313
16,301
113
69
Tennessee
#89
Pope believe Mary able to protect him

Mother Mary holding John Paul II in Her arms when he was shot in 1981.(click on the picture for original sized image)This happened on May 13, 1981. Pope John Paul II was shot as he arrived in St. Peter’s Square to speak to the people who had gathered there. When he was shot, he was holding the rosary, which he always carried. When he fell to the ground, out of nowhere, a woman rushed to his side and embraced him. That pic is shown above. The picture is said to have been taken by one of the gathered people who was busy taking Pope’s pics with his camera. The woman vanished as quickly as she appeared.The gunman was apprehended in the square and sentenced to life in prison. The pope was critically wounded but survived after surgery and a long recovery. The surprising fact is that all the bullets passed just past his vital internal organs. When he recovered finally, the first thing Pope asked for was his rosary. When he got it in his hands,

he said that he felt Mother Mary directing the bullets’ path through him. Sure, John Paul II was always in the habit of praying the rosary regularly. He had once said “The best prayer I like is the Rosary”.


Read more at Mother Mary Holding John Paul II In Her Arms When He Was Shot Mother Mary Holding John Paul II In Her Arms When He Was Shot


let me repeat this sentence
he(pope) felt Mother Mary directing the bullet path through him

to me It is non biblical believe.

It mean pope believe Mary like God, her spirit has ability to protect bilions catholic, she must omni present like God

to exalt Mary AS a God is blasphemy


You are referring to a pope that has been deceased for years. Really scraping the bottom of the barrel aren't you in your endless barrage against Catholics? I guess that you give the other denominations a pass for any faulty doctrine and practices that may exist to suit your own bias, prejudice and misconceptions.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,313
16,301
113
69
Tennessee
#90
This is hate speech based on blind prejudice. You don't want to discuss these falsehoods, you just want to persecute Catholics with your bigotry.
You hit the nail on the head with your estimation.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,313
16,301
113
69
Tennessee
#91
[video=youtube;qBFvfAVLVvE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBFvfAVLVvE[/video]

So what are your thoughts on this charismatic ecumenical movement that has begun in the RCC?
What do you think about the information in the video?
My thoughts are to not rely on a whack job in a YouTube video to define my spiritual beliefs.
 
S

Susanna

Guest
#92
My thoughts are to not rely on a whack job in a YouTube video to define my spiritual beliefs.
Well, the United Youtube Whack Job & Snake Handler Church for sure has been keeping themselves busy for some time now.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#93
You are referring to a pope that has been deceased for years. Really scraping the bottom of the barrel aren't you in your endless barrage against Catholics? I guess that you give the other denominations a pass for any faulty doctrine and practices that may exist to suit your own bias, prejudice and misconceptions.
So you not agree with that deceased pope?

is new pope not agree with that infallible pope?
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,313
16,301
113
69
Tennessee
#96
So you not agree with that deceased pope?

is new pope not agree with that infallible pope?
What I don't understand is your fascination with the Catholic faith. There are a lot of worse things that one can do than praying to Mary. No, I don't think that people should pray to Mary but I would also not say that my overall spiritual life is better than theirs or anyone else for that matter. We are all works in various stages of process.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,313
16,301
113
69
Tennessee
#97
Nail oN the head? So you think he hate me?

Hatred is again the teaching of pure gospel.
He will have to speak for himself whether or not he hates you but I can only say that I don't hate you. I really don't understand what you mean by the teaching of the pure gospel beyond that Jesus died for our sins on the cross and that we should love our neighbors as ourselves.