The Deceitfulness of New.Modern.Hyper Grace

[KennethC]

Yes exactly.
So many concepts are misunderstood through a one dimensional prism.

Last time I contributed to this subject I zeroed in on the cross and BINGO,it offended one side of the argument.

WOW,the cross offends?....Uh,yes it does.

Paul said he picked up his DAILY.
Jesus said it was a must for following him.

Crucifying the flesh is the key to WALKING IN HOLINESS.

THIS THREAD MIRACULOUSLY HITS ALL AROUND THE TARGET,BUT OMITS THE KEY.

This is absolutely right and I think one of the keys is that some teach as though Jesus is still hanging on that cross.

He is a risen Lord and thus who abide in Him (believers in the faith) are to walk accordingly to that new nature, not the old sinful nature we had before the cross.

Yes sin still exists in our lives but with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit we learn to crucify and put off those sinful deeds of the flesh more and more each day, week, month, and year. Through Him we overcome the sinful world and have victory over sin !!!

AMEN

 

[KennethC]

Saying that John said they were never saved is called reading into the text. John didn't said that they weren't 'saved'. He simply said they left because they weren't following the same doctrine (spirit).

Actually the problem here as always is using the passage from 1 John 2:18-19 very badly out of context to apply to all who fall away from the faith.

Until they stop doing this then there understanding will always be flawed, because verses 18, 22, 23 says exactly who is being talked about here.

It is those with the spirit of anti-christ in them that tried to bring in lies and heresies to the gospel !!!

It does not apply to any person who has fallen away/departed from the faith because of trials, tribulations, troubles, or because they had been deceived !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

The cross of the Lord Jesus is our cornerstone as well as His resurrection which follows..we are involved in "BOTH"...what does it mean to take up "our" cross daily?

Take Up Your Cross Daily (Luke 9:23)

Jesus said, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me” (Luk 9:23).What does it mean to take up your cross daily? I’m going to give you two interpretations and then you can choose.

Interpretation #1: Jesus is preaching self-denial

Following Christ is all about self-denial and going without. If you are not in the daily habit of denying your appetites and desires, you are not a real Christian. The more you deny your own needs and wants, the holier you’ll be. So fast everyday and you’ll be just like Jesus.

But there’s a problem with this interpretation. Abstaining from food, Facebook, or fun won’t make you righteous and holy. (It might make you religious.) This message of self-denial is nothing more than the ancient practice of asceticism dressed up in religious jargon. It is a message that promotes Pharisaical self-righteousness and DIY religiosity.

Another problem with this interpretation is it will leave you anxious and insecure. “Have I denied myself enough?” You can never know. So you’d better deny yourself some more, just to be safe. “Don’t touch, don’t handle, don’t taste.” Pretty soon you’ll be whipping yourself and asking your friends to crucify you for the Easter parade.

Jesus did not suffer and die on the cross so you could join him in suffering and dying on a cross as well. That’s not good news. Jesus died so that we might be free from this sort of dead and useless religion.

Interpretation #2: Jesus is showing us the way to salvation

And who is the way? Jesus. When Jesus says, “Follow me,” he’s saying the way to salvation is through him and his cross.

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me… (Gal 2:20a)

The reason most Christians struggle to live the Christian life is they do not know they have died with Christ. Yet Paul says so again and again. To the Christians in Colossae; “You died with Christ” (Col 2:20). To the believers in Rome: “We died with Christ” (Rom 6:8). To the Corinthians: “We died” (2 Cor 5:14).

When you were baptized or placed into Christ, you were baptized into his death (Rom 6:3). This is just about the single most important thing that ever happened to you, yet many Christians are unaware of it. Since they don’t know that they died, they are constantly trying to die. But the gospel declares, “You died.” You have been crucified with Christ. The person you used to be – dead in sins and alienated from the life of God – no longer lives, but Christ lives in you.

“But if I died with Christ already, why does Jesus say we must take up our cross daily?”

First of all, note that the word daily is only found once in the three accounts of Jesus’ words. Jesus said, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and…

…take up his cross and follow me. (Mat 16:24)
…take up his cross and follow me. (Mar 8:34)
…take up his cross daily and follow me. (Luk 9:23)

Why does Luke record the word “daily” when Matthew and Mark do not? “Luke is wrong,” says Adam Clarke. “Or at least our English translations of Luke are wrong, for the word ‘daily’ is not in some of the original manuscripts.”

Adam Clarke may be right. I wouldn’t know. I don’t have the original manuscripts. But for the sake of argument, let’s assume Clarkey is wrong and our English Bibles have it right. What then?

Why does Luke say “daily”?

The rest of the teaching is below..click on the link if interested..

Take Up Your Cross Daily (Luke 9:23) – Escape to Reality

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually the problem here as always is using the passage from 1 John 2:18-19 very badly out of context to apply to all who fall away from the faith.

Until they stop doing this then there understanding will always be flawed, because verses 18, 22, 23 says exactly who is being talked about here.

It is those with the spirit of anti-christ in them that tried to bring in lies and heresies to the gospel !!!

It does not apply to any person who has fallen away/departed from the faith because of trials, tribulations, troubles, or because they had been deceived !!!

LOL. This is too funny,

see what happens when you ignore people..

I said that the people spoken to are in verses 22 and 23. (those who deny Christ, even though at one time, they were in the church claiming they had received Christ)

And I also said it is not peaking to people who have fallen into sin.

lol.. Keep it up Ken, You may get it some day..

 

[popeye]

Let me show you something, our purpose is to "study to shew thyself approved", to preach the doctrines of God. God has inspired words and God preserved an arrangement in scripture for a reason, our edification as we build a house of doctrine into our inner man. This is the manifestation of God in the flesh, Christ be formed in you, the mind of Christ knows, proves the will of God, the goodwill of God toward all men, the attitude of God, in this, the ambassador.

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (KJV)

When scripture speaks of the Holy Spirit as a personage, it is with a capital H. When the scripture speaks of that spirit that is of God and our possession, directly connected to us, the inner man, the spirit of holiness, little h.

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him.

I would eventually like to talk about sanctification, biblical fornication and our walk.

A believer,a serious beliver,as opposed to someone playing games,has an advocate,Jesus Christ.

Should such a believer sin,he does not loose his position in God's family,he loses fellowship.


Similar to our earthly family. A child in disobedience is not thrown out,but rather disciplined.


Sin,the flesh,the old nature,repentance,church protocol,the cross,the armor of God,the cleansing of the blood,rewards for being faithful,.....all need to be incorporated.

The picture is multifaceted,not oneliner "grace covers and that is all there is to it"

(not saying that you imply that)

 

[Grace777x70]

Maybe we should let the Holy Spirit deal with all of us in whatever area He deems is fit for us individually? I don't see any fruit coming from these endless talks here. Some believe one way and some another.

The endless debates are useless and are really causing divisions amongst us which should not be. We should just "allow" the other to have the freedom to believe however they are inclined. This "attacking" each other and calling names and having malice towards another and slandering each other and leaders in the body of Christ must stop.

I for one am leaning towards just leaving the information and let the Holy Spirit show the people interested what He wants them to know about any area. If someone has a legitimate question , then that is fine and can be asked in a loving, respectful way..then those I will answer.

We can trust Him to reveal Jesus to us.

I just want people to have another view other then the so-called traditional view and the other side should be free to say what they want too as well. They too can leave websites or blogs for people to access to determine within themselves things.

I tend to think what Gamaliel had to say about disputes with the apostles might be appropriate here.

Acts 5:38-40 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "So in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action is of men, it will be overthrown;
[SUP]39 [/SUP] but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God."
[SUP]40 [/SUP] They took his advice; and after calling the apostles in, they flogged them and ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and then released them.

Let's all be willing to take a final flogging from both groups and then leave it in the Lord's mighty hands...we are all brothers and want to grow in the grace and knowledge of out Lord Jesus. Let's lift Him up. He is our Life!

 

[Complete_In_Him]

(not saying that you imply that)

Thanks, because I am not. But, first things first. Believing in God, does not save the soul. Loving God, does not gain you entrance. Believing the testimony of God, the gospel of your salvation and trusting in the faith OF Christ and what He did for us on that cross, completely 100% plus nothing added to it, is the only way, today, in this dispensation, to become fellowcitizens with the saints in the household of God. And then from that point, know we no man after the flesh.

Our salvation is not in a system, but in a person. The first five books of Romans is instruction on how we get out of Adam(flesh) and into Christ(spirit).

 

[Magenta]

1) You are asking me to judge the salvation of Christians turned Atheist and I asked what gospel they believed.

I think this a fruitless endeavour at this point, since there is no way I could convey the totality of what they believed, just the fact that they believed themselves born again and saved by God, in some cases for decades, before they fell away. The question could be taken to a more general level: do you think people who genuinely believe can fall away?

2) You stated blasphemy was unforgivable.

Jesus said it.

Earlier, you also accused me of denying scripture, just because you are obviously unfamiliar with the circumcision of Christ in the context I was clearly sharing, when I wasn't speaking to you about it in the first place.

You did deny it. I posted Scripture, and the first thing you said to me was no, and posted something else as if your Scripture somehow negated the Scripture I had given. And in fact, you addressed me first, to deny the Scripture I had posted. On the other hand I gave no response to the Scripture you posted, so I do not see why you make any judgement of me concerning it. I certainly did not deny it, or show the unfamiliarity to it you are claiming.

 

[popeye]

What saddens me even more than the specifics of the 'hyper-grace' doctrine, is to see certain ones here give blind allegiance to ones like Prince...almost as if in a trance. It's like they quote him, post videos of him and defend him at all costs. I have done studies on cult behaviors, both social and theological and this fits to a tee.

I would have to see several instances where he is off.

I have listened to him a few times. Seems ok.

 

[Grace777x70]

I watch him sometimes..not that much though....I just post his stuff because he directly answers questions on certain subjects.

There are a few things I don't agree with Prince on but I just eat the hay and spit out what are the sticks for me. Sometimes meat to a young one can be too hard for them to swallow..

To me he was sent by the Lord Jesus to the body of Christ to teach on the beauty of the gospel of the grace of Christ. He always lifts up and exalts Jesus in every sermon that I have seen. He also has a remarkable ability to see Jesus in every scripture in seems in the Old Testament..even down to the individual Hebrew words...

anyway....for the record which I have said a few times there are some things that I do not agree with...but a lot I do.

I would have to see several instances where he is off.

I have listened to him a few times. Seems ok.

 

[popeye]

Thanks, because I am not. But, first things first. Believing in God, does not save the soul. Loving God, does not gain you entrance. Believing the testimony of God, the gospel of your salvation and trusting in the faith OF Christ and what He did for us on that cross, completely 100% plus nothing added to it, is the only way, today, in this dispensation, to become fellowcitizens with the saints in the household of God. And then from that point, know we no man after the flesh.

Our salvation is not in a system, but in a person. The first five books of Romans is instruction on how we get out of Adam(flesh) and into Christ(spirit).

Ditto that.

I always wondered why Jesus asks Peter 3 times "do you love me"?

I don't say for a fact,but it could have been because he denied him 3times.

Peter got exasperated at the repetitive question,but I would bet he got it later.

IOW,he really,really loves His family.

 

[popeye]

I watch him sometimes..not that much though....I just post his stuff because he directly answers questions on certain subjects.

There are a few things I don't agree with Prince on but I just eat the hay and spit out what are the sticks for me. Sometimes meat to a young one can be too hard for them to swallow..

To me he was sent by the Lord Jesus to the body of Christ to teach on the beauty of the gospel of the grace of Christ. He always lifts up and exalts Jesus in every sermon that I have seen. He also has a remarkable ability to see Jesus in every scripture in seems in the Old Testament..even down to the individual Hebrew words...

anyway....for the record which I have said a few times there are some things that I do not agree with...but a lot I do.

Funny you said that.

I am still playing the bible on DVD 24/7 both in my shop,and bedroom. I am missing some sleep,but it is really tweaking my whole being.

Anyway,I have heard the begats,about 5 times now and tonight I thought it was like eating fish(spit out the bones),but actually no,just need to ff that part.

 

[Grace777x70]

LOL..I hear ya.....but you know I heard that guy talk about those begats and he got Jesus exalted out of it....what about Leviticus?..that's a hard one to get through for me...


I play worship music all night and it is funny how the words in the music "speak" to my spirit early in the mornings...and I hear the Lord encouraging me....speaking life into me..it's awesome!

Funny you said that.

I am still playing the bible on DVD 24/7 both in my shop,and bedroom. I am missing some sleep,but it is really tweaking my whole being.

Anyway,I have heard the begats,about 5 times now and tonight I thought it was like eating fish(spit out the bones),but actually no,just need to ff that part.

 

[Complete_In_Him]

The question could be taken to a more general level: do you think people who genuinely believe can fall away?

I am going to be very specific about soul salvation, people under our ministry call, in this dispensation, who believe a form of doctrine, "the gospel of your salvation", are saved by grace, through trusting in the "faith of Christ" for the forgiveness of all their sins. They have been quickened together with Christ, and made alive to God. This is how God identifies us, it is a position, with an inheritance. The soul is saved, "sealed with that spirit of promise."

God is not a liar. God is not the author of confusion. God is faithful.

Soul salvation is not earned, maintained, or lost. The salvation of your mind is being renewed daily, potentially, hopefully.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

The cross of the Lord Jesus is our cornerstone as well as His resurrection which follows..we are involved in "BOTH"...what does it mean to take up "our" cross daily?

Take Up Your Cross Daily (Luke 9:23)

Jesus said, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me” (Luk 9:23).What does it mean to take up your cross daily? I’m going to give you two interpretations and then you can choose.

Interpretation #1: Jesus is preaching self-denial

Following Christ is all about self-denial and going without. If you are not in the daily habit of denying your appetites and desires, you are not a real Christian. The more you deny your own needs and wants, the holier you’ll be. So fast everyday and you’ll be just like Jesus.

But there’s a problem with this interpretation. Abstaining from food, Facebook, or fun won’t make you righteous and holy. (It might make you religious.) This message of self-denial is nothing more than the ancient practice of asceticism dressed up in religious jargon. It is a message that promotes Pharisaical self-righteousness and DIY religiosity.

Another problem with this interpretation is it will leave you anxious and insecure. “Have I denied myself enough?” You can never know. So you’d better deny yourself some more, just to be safe. “Don’t touch, don’t handle, don’t taste.” Pretty soon you’ll be whipping yourself and asking your friends to crucify you for the Easter parade.

Jesus did not suffer and die on the cross so you could join him in suffering and dying on a cross as well. That’s not good news. Jesus died so that we might be free from this sort of dead and useless religion.

Interpretation #2: Jesus is showing us the way to salvation

And who is the way? Jesus. When Jesus says, “Follow me,” he’s saying the way to salvation is through him and his cross.

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me… (Gal 2:20a)

The reason most Christians struggle to live the Christian life is they do not know they have died with Christ. Yet Paul says so again and again. To the Christians in Colossae; “You died with Christ” (Col 2:20). To the believers in Rome: “We died with Christ” (Rom 6:8). To the Corinthians: “We died” (2 Cor 5:14).

When you were baptized or placed into Christ, you were baptized into his death (Rom 6:3). This is just about the single most important thing that ever happened to you, yet many Christians are unaware of it. Since they don’t know that they died, they are constantly trying to die. But the gospel declares, “You died.” You have been crucified with Christ. The person you used to be – dead in sins and alienated from the life of God – no longer lives, but Christ lives in you.

“But if I died with Christ already, why does Jesus say we must take up our cross daily?”

First of all, note that the word daily is only found once in the three accounts of Jesus’ words. Jesus said, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and…

…take up his cross and follow me. (Mat 16:24)
…take up his cross and follow me. (Mar 8:34)
…take up his cross daily and follow me. (Luk 9:23)

Why does Luke record the word “daily” when Matthew and Mark do not? “Luke is wrong,” says Adam Clarke. “Or at least our English translations of Luke are wrong, for the word ‘daily’ is not in some of the original manuscripts.”

Adam Clarke may be right. I wouldn’t know. I don’t have the original manuscripts. But for the sake of argument, let’s assume Clarkey is wrong and our English Bibles have it right. What then?

Why does Luke say “daily”?

The rest of the teaching is below..click on the link if interested..

Take Up Your Cross Daily (Luke 9:23) – Escape to Reality

Good morning grace dude!
In the above interpretation #1, you have given literal, human, outward examples of denying oneself. And you mention denying ones needs and wants.

I don't ever see God denying me my needs but i do see Him changing my wants.

There is a purpose to picking up a cross. It isn't just to transfer a piece of lumber around from place to place. A man picks it up to be put to death on it. We were specifically told to pick ours up and follow Him.

There is some part of me that He intends to die on that cross or He wouldn't have told me to pick it up. He could have just said follow Me. But He added, pick up your cross.

If my pride doesn't die on it and I insist that men respect me and treat me better, demanding "my rights", I am refusing to pick up my cross.

If I expect or demand better treatment or respect than Him, I am refusing to pick up my cross.

The part of me that wars with the Spirit is what He expects to die. You seem to see all of the dying to have already be done and yet, you know you are a sinner still at times, wanting your way, wanting respect, wanting comfort instead of trials, etc.

The flesh will never be subject to the Spirit. It wars against the Spirit. I am still encased in this flesh and it's self seeking desires. I want the comfortable way instead of the narrow way. I want the easy way instead of the way of denial of self. I want to coddle my flesh, my hurt feelings, my rights, my desire for luxury instead of just enough for the day.

I see awful striving for honor among men within myself sometimes. It all has to die. And I will never become more and more like Him if it doesn't. There will be no growth in virtue or fruit if it doesn't.

Giving up food or sugar or some other " sacrifice" and thinking that is picking up my cross is just...laughable if I am at the same time demanding respect, refusing to forgive, seeking comfort and losing my peace if I don't get it at every second, etc.

I must decrease and He must increase.

For Paul to say, I die daily, fits with what I have personally experienced. But this isn't something I have effected myself because even when i saw all of the self seeking and self honoring within me, I agreed it had to die but I was completely incapable of making it happen. All I could do was cry to Him that I wanted death but that my enemies were too strong for me and ask Him to give me victory over them.

I know you view all of your dying as being completed but some of us still have to pick up our cross because the old man still troubles and tempts us at times. I guess I just thought it might help if you could see it all from the perspective of someone not as complete in growth of the virtues yet, as you are. It isn't a sudden and complete victory over all the enemies in the land for all of us. Some of us still have some enemies living in the land that have to be defeated. But we'll get to where you are with His help!

 

[Grace777x70]

Good morning! ( I laughed at your "grace dude" )

I agree with you that if we delight ourselves in the Lord He will give you the desires of your heart. Many people just take "my wants " to mean they can have anything..which in my mind is mis-leading. The Lord gives us our desires as we delight in Him.

True the flesh is always at war with the Spirit within us. I know as you have said that there are still giants in the land ( flesh ) which I think the Lord left it that way on purpose so that we have no confidence within ourselves , that is in our flesh to do things. I agree that the flesh is a deceptive little creature in all of us.

I say as Paul does that the old man was crucified with Christ..but the flesh ( the power of sin still resides in the flesh too ) is still here which has the habits and ways of thinking from the world or wrong teaching. We have a new man now created in Christ which is where the Spirit is that wars against the flesh. Having our minds renewed to the reality of our new creation in Christ helps us to overcome the desires of the flesh by the Spirit within us.

When Paul said "I die daily"..he was referring to the circumstances that he had to go through while preaching the gospel as he was constantly in peril of dying from opposition both from natural things and from people. ( did you get a chance to click on the link in the post to view the end of the article? )

There is a constant battle for sure between the flesh and spirit and will be until we leave this earth so I am not "arrived" for sure....believe me...lol...When I speak of the old man as being dead..it is different from the battle between the flesh and the spirit within us. It is probably due to a mis-understanding we get in terms that are used....like "old man"..."flesh"....etc

I think when I say the old man is dead...you think I mean that I never have a battle with the flesh anymore which is so not the case at all.....its the term "old man" that can be confusing.

Perhaps I am not articulating well enough in describing what I am referring to in this matter....as I do and we all will have the conflict between the flesh and the Spirit even though we are complete in Christ in our inner man.

I wrote about what I believe in this post # 731 in the link below....if you are interested ...

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ternal-security-false-doctrine-proven-37.html


There is no sudden and complete victory over all the enemies in the land for any of us. God left the flesh in there on purpose so that we would have to rely on Him for everything! So that all glory would come to Him. The more we realize how weak we are within our flesh - the more His power comes into manifestation in our lives.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts as it has helped me to focus more in on the words being used to describe things.

Bless you!

Good morning grace dude!
In the above interpretation #1, you have given literal, human, outward examples of denying oneself. And you mention denying ones needs and wants.

I don't ever see God denying me my needs but i do see Him changing my wants.

There is a purpose to picking up a cross. It isn't just to transfer a piece of lumber around from place to place. A man picks it up to be put to death on it. We were specifically told to pick ours up and follow Him.

There is some part of me that He intends to die on that cross or He wouldn't have told me to pick it up. He could have just said follow Me. But He added, pick up your cross.

If my pride doesn't die on it and I insist that men respect me and treat me better, demanding "my rights", I am refusing to pick up my cross.

If I expect or demand better treatment or respect than Him, I am refusing to pick up my cross.

The part of me that wars with the Spirit is what He expects to die. You seem to see all of the dying to have already be done and yet, you know you are a sinner still at times, wanting your way, wanting respect, wanting comfort instead of trials, etc.

The flesh will never be subject to the Spirit. It wars against the Spirit. I am still encased in this flesh and it's self seeking desires. I want the comfortable way instead of the narrow way. I want the easy way instead of the way of denial of self. I want to coddle my flesh, my hurt feelings, my rights, my desire for luxury instead of just enough for the day.

I see awful striving for honor among men within myself sometimes. It all has to die. And I will never become more and more like Him if it doesn't. There will be no growth in virtue or fruit if it doesn't.

Giving up food or sugar or some other " sacrifice" and thinking that is picking up my cross is just...laughable if I am at the same time demanding respect, refusing to forgive, seeking comfort and losing my peace if I don't get it at every second, etc.

I must decrease and He must increase.

For Paul to say, I die daily, fits with what I have personally experienced. But this isn't something I have effected myself because even when i saw all of the self seeking and self honoring within me, I agreed it had to die but I was completely incapable of making it happen. All I could do was cry to Him that I wanted death but that my enemies were too strong for me and ask Him to give me victory over them.

I know you view all of your dying as being completed but some of us still have to pick up our cross because the old man still troubles and tempts us at times. I guess I just thought it might help if you could see it all from the perspective of someone not as complete in growth of the virtues yet, as you are. It isn't a sudden and complete victory over all the enemies in the land for all of us. Some of us still have some enemies living in the land that have to be defeated. But we'll get to where you are with His help!

 

[Grace777x70]

I thought I would post the rest of the article... there are also lot's of comments that people have made at the end of the article..like sking questions..which may be helpful as well..I always enjoyed the "comments" section in articles as sometimes things are explained better or questions I have had answered..etc..

Take Up Your Cross Daily (Luke 9:23) – Escape to Reality


This is the rest of the article...

Why does Luke say “daily”?

My view is that Luke is on the same page as Matthew and Mark but he is emphasizing something to make a point. Luke isn’t contradicting Matthew and Mark; he’s saying the exact same thing – the way to salvation is through Christ and his cross – but he’s saying it with gusto. He’s saying we ought to value the finished work of the cross every single day.

When I get out of bed in the morning and put my feet on the floor, my left foot says, “Thank you, Jesus,” and my right foot says, “For the cross.” It’s because you have died with Christ that you now live, everyday, in union with him. This is a great treasure and not something to take for granted.

“Paul, are you saying that if I stop valuing the cross I’ll lose my salvation?” Not at all! I’m saying if you have been born of the spirit, learn to walk by the spirit. We don’t die daily – once will do the trick – and we don’t get born again every day. But every day we make this choice: Will I walk after the flesh or after the spirit?

Let me give you an example. Say you hear a message that says you need to fast and pray to become spiritually mature, so you decide to fast and pray. Bam! You are no longer walking by the spirit. You are no longer trusting in the grace of God. Rather, you are trusting in your own fasting and praying performance to make you mature. Where does the Lord fit in this picture? He doesn’t, and that’s the problem.

Dead religion is a graceless and faithless way to live.

“Walking after the flesh” doesn’t necessarily mean running around getting drunk and doing bad stuff. That’s a caricature that applies to only a few. For the good Christian, the flesh takes on the subtler guise of good works, duty, and self-improvement. (For more, see my post, When doing good is bad for you.)

What does it mean to die to self?

There is nothing wrong with the phrase “die to self.” The problem is we read it through Buddhist lenses instead of gospel lenses. We think, “I have to stop being who God made me to be. I have to pretend I’m somebody else – someone who doesn’t enjoy wine, one woman, and song.” That’s a dehumanizing doctrine of demons.

God made you unique. He gave you good dreams and good desires that no one else has. When you suppress your God-given dreams and desires, the world is impoverished.

“Die to self” means “Trust Jesus instead of the flesh.” It means live each and every day out of the glorious relationship you have with the Lord. It means, don’t fall back to the inferior ways of the flesh that you walked in when you were a sinner or religious, but stand firm in the freedom of Christ.

This, I believe, is the point Luke was trying to make. The trusting life is an adventure. It’s good to remind yourself daily that “God is for me. How can I fail?” Conscious of your loving Father’s acceptance and approval, you will soar on eagles’ wings. And when you apprehend, by faith, the inexhaustible riches of his grace, the whole world benefits.

Why would you want to waste one single day living any other way? Why crawl when you can fly?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Good morning! ( I laughed at your "grace dude" )

I agree with you that if we delight ourselves in the Lord He will give you the desires of your heart. Many people just take "my wants " to mean they can have anything..which in my mind is mis-leading. The Lord gives us our desires as we delight in Him.

True the flesh is always at war with the Spirit within us. I know as you have said that there are still giants in the land ( flesh ) which I think the Lord left it that way on purpose so that we have no confidence within ourselves , that is in our flesh to do things. I agree that the flesh is a deceptive little creature in all of us.

I say as Paul does that the old man was crucified with Christ..but the flesh ( the power of sin still resides in the flesh too ) is still here which has the habits and ways of thinking from the world or wrong teaching. We have a new man now created in Christ which is where the Spirit is that wars against the flesh. Having our minds renewed to the reality of our new creation in Christ helps us to overcome the desires of the flesh by the Spirit within us.

When Paul said "I die daily"..he was referring to the circumstances that he had to go through while preaching the gospel as he was constantly in peril of dying from opposition both from natural things and from people. ( did you get a chance to click on the link in the post to view the end of the article? )

There is a constant battle for sure between the flesh and spirit and will be until we leave this earth so I am not "arrived" for sure....believe me...lol...When I speak of the old man as being dead..it is different from the battle between the flesh and the spirit within us. It is probably due to a mis-understanding we get in terms that are used....like "old man"..."flesh"....etc

I think when I say the old man is dead...you think I mean that I never have a battle with the flesh anymore which is so not the case at all.....its the term "old man" that can be confusing.

Perhaps I am not articulating well enough in describing what I am referring to in this matter....as I do and we all will have the conflict between the flesh and the Spirit even though we are complete in Christ in our inner man.

I wrote about what I believe in this post # 731 in the link below....if you are interested ...

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ternal-security-false-doctrine-proven-37.html


There is no sudden and complete victory over all the enemies in the land for any of us. God left the flesh in there on purpose so that we would have to rely on Him for everything! So that all glory would come to Him. The more we realize how weak we are within our flesh - the more His power comes into manifestation in our lives.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts as it has helped me to focus more in on the words being used to describe things.

Bless you!

Well, bless you too, grace dude!
The problem is in seeing what words or phrases are being resisted or in seeing where the resistance lies and then speaking in different phrasing because as you can see, two of your "opponents" have hit "like" in answer to my post.

I knew all three of you would agree with what I said because I have talked with all three of you. But you each have pet phrases that set you in opposition when no real opposition exists.

How about that? The Holy Spirit really has united us in agreement...it makes you laugh and scratch your head at how He does it!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I think it must all stretch back to the tower of Babel and Him confusing their language haha!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Three different people could argue over what the word "chilly" meant.
1. It means you are cold and shivering.
2. It means someone is giving you the cold shoulder.
3. No, you are lying! It means a red dish with beef and beans!