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human glorification, yes. God will do that.
human deification? just no.
and for good measure? monergism: yes.
human deification? just no.
and for good measure? monergism: yes.
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With all respect, this just sounds like an opinion based on "feelings". If you read my second post you will see I included a variety of scripture references. I too early in my christian walk raised my eyes at the suggestion that we are "becoming God". (not gods). However, after I admitted to myself that this skepticism was based only on my natural feelings about man and God and not actually based on scripture I became open to getting into the bible concerning this thought. I also was like many that have replied in this thread, put off by something that sounded like it had Mormon attachments. It does not. If you are truly open to the revelation in the bible (I trust you are) and go over the scripture that I included in my second post and still stand firm in your belief that man cannot become deified,...then I would like to know why you take that position. Use the scripture I included in your rebuttal to my position on the deification of man. By that way, this is not something new in the historical account of Christian theology.
HAVE another joint.......
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
I never implied that you said that....lets recap shall we.....
Your question--->yet I have also heard from many believers that man cannot become...God. Agree? Disagree? Comments?
My response.......is under the comments section...no where did I imply anything toward you.
Re: The deification of man.
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Your question--->yet I have also heard from many believers that man cannot become...God. Agree? Disagree? Comments?
My response.......is under the comments section...no where did I imply anything toward you.
Can a servant be above his MASTER...It is enough that a servant be as his MASTER..........
Jesus is God and he will always be so far above us that if it were not for him bridging the gap we would not even be able to see him.....much less become a god........!
Just is case you cannot see what was written I enlarged it for you
Jesus is God and he will always be so far above us that if it were not for him bridging the gap we would not even be able to see him.....much less become a god........!
Just is case you cannot see what was written I enlarged it for you
8
My intent in starting this thread was NOT to start a debate on Mormonism. Sadly, that is what it seems to have mostly become. I am not Mormon and do not base any of my positions on the "deification of man" on Mormon teachings. The fact is, I only know a little bit about what Mormon theology teaches regarding God's relationship to man. I reject Mormonism as a path to salvation. It would be truly a shame if a true biblical revelation concerning God's relationship to man and the intimacy of that relationship, would be lost, covered up and hidden from God's true believers because of a somewhat related theology produced by a false teaching of Mormonism or any other false group. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time. In fact I will go so far as to say that this is one of the purposes behind the major cults that stand under the banner of Christianity, and that is to take a genuine "truth" and twist it up into something that is deformed from it's original intent so that the result is that when true believers reject that "false group theology" the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater.
In spite of errant Mormon theology on this topic, I firmly maintain that according to the divine revelation in the scriptures that man through regeneration in Gods life, and that regeneration defined by all the scripture that I posted (in my second post) leaves me to come to no other conclusion other than Gods purpose with man is the deification of man, that man would be fully brought into God, although not as a part of the Godhead. Yes, this is profound and mysterious. Yet this is what the scriptures bear out. I don't fully understand it myself, but this doesn't mean I don't accept it.
I received a lot of rebuttals to my position in this thread, although none of the rebuttals contained scripture as a base for rebuttal. (mostly just a Mormon debate). What I wish happened and hope happens is that those who reject the deification of man take the scriptures that I posted and explain to me how man can be, according to scripture,..."born of God", "partakers of the divine nature", "created vessel's in His image and likeness", "members of His body", "joined to Him as one spirit", "joined to Him in oneness in a coming divine marriage" etc.. and NOT be at the very least, be growing into deification???
One footnote: This in no way is to imply that "man" is to become something worthy of worship, or enter into some form of self-wprship. I think that if one carefully reads my second post they will see that this is not the intent to be assumed.
In spite of errant Mormon theology on this topic, I firmly maintain that according to the divine revelation in the scriptures that man through regeneration in Gods life, and that regeneration defined by all the scripture that I posted (in my second post) leaves me to come to no other conclusion other than Gods purpose with man is the deification of man, that man would be fully brought into God, although not as a part of the Godhead. Yes, this is profound and mysterious. Yet this is what the scriptures bear out. I don't fully understand it myself, but this doesn't mean I don't accept it.
I received a lot of rebuttals to my position in this thread, although none of the rebuttals contained scripture as a base for rebuttal. (mostly just a Mormon debate). What I wish happened and hope happens is that those who reject the deification of man take the scriptures that I posted and explain to me how man can be, according to scripture,..."born of God", "partakers of the divine nature", "created vessel's in His image and likeness", "members of His body", "joined to Him as one spirit", "joined to Him in oneness in a coming divine marriage" etc.. and NOT be at the very least, be growing into deification???
One footnote: This in no way is to imply that "man" is to become something worthy of worship, or enter into some form of self-wprship. I think that if one carefully reads my second post they will see that this is not the intent to be assumed.
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V
"born of God", "partakers of the divine nature", "created vessel's in His image and likeness", "members of His body", "joined to Him as one spirit", "joined to Him in oneness.." This is all the work of the Holy Spirit of God. Man has nothing to do with it. We are only the recipients of the amazing grace of Jesus Christ the Lord. Why would man be deified?
i do not think "deified" is the right word to use.
we are a vessel for the one Deo to be glorified in - being "built into a temple" for His Spirit to occupy. when a king steps into a chariot, the chariot does not become a royalty, but is made for royal use. the palace is not a ruler, but it is made for the ruler's inhabitation.
we are made, "lower than the angels" and yet purposed to be their judges - but we know that to know Him, we must humble ourselves. He has said, "I will be their God, and they will be my people" -- as our righteousness is not our own, our glory also is not of ourselves, but of the One who has sealed us.
deity is to be worshiped and adored; there is but One worthy. we know already He exalts us beyond our worth - being set apart by grace, not by merit, and being changed by His power into creatures worthy of the high calling and the infinitely merciful adoption, not of ourselves, how can i embrace this vanity to imagine myself becoming also a 'god' ??
a servant that reigns or an handmaid heir to her mistress?
can heaven bear it? every glory i receive of Him is due Him; every crown is cast back to His feet in reverence.
we are a vessel for the one Deo to be glorified in - being "built into a temple" for His Spirit to occupy. when a king steps into a chariot, the chariot does not become a royalty, but is made for royal use. the palace is not a ruler, but it is made for the ruler's inhabitation.
Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
(1 John 3:2)
(1 John 3:2)
we are made, "lower than the angels" and yet purposed to be their judges - but we know that to know Him, we must humble ourselves. He has said, "I will be their God, and they will be my people" -- as our righteousness is not our own, our glory also is not of ourselves, but of the One who has sealed us.
deity is to be worshiped and adored; there is but One worthy. we know already He exalts us beyond our worth - being set apart by grace, not by merit, and being changed by His power into creatures worthy of the high calling and the infinitely merciful adoption, not of ourselves, how can i embrace this vanity to imagine myself becoming also a 'god' ??
For three things the earth is disquieted, and for four which it cannot bear:
For a servant when he reigneth; and a fool when he is filled with meat;
For an odious woman when she is married; and an handmaid that is heir to her mistress.
(Proverbs 30:21-23)
For a servant when he reigneth; and a fool when he is filled with meat;
For an odious woman when she is married; and an handmaid that is heir to her mistress.
(Proverbs 30:21-23)
a servant that reigns or an handmaid heir to her mistress?
can heaven bear it? every glory i receive of Him is due Him; every crown is cast back to His feet in reverence.
A
I believe I understand what you're asking and can answer your question; however, it's late here and I need to sleep so I'll lay some background now and later actually answer the question.
First, I'll introduce some biblical terms that you're well acquainted with. In scripture, humans have an inner (immaterial) dimension and an outer (material) dimension. The former is often called soul (or spirit) and the latter is usually called body.
In Geisler's (and many other evangelical theologian's) 'systematic theology' series, he explains that the term soul basically means "life" and refers to the principle of life in a human being, or to that which animates the body. The primary meaning of soul can most often be captured best by translating it as the person, which usually is embodied but is sometimes disembodied.
The term spirit almost always refers to "the immaterial dimension of a human being." It is often used interchangeably with the word soul, as is indicated by many verses (Luke 1:46). The body without the soul is dead (James 2:26); at death, Jesus "bowed his head and gave up his spirit" (John 19:30). Spirit is immaterial (Luke 24:38-39). Indeed, the invisible God "is spirit" and must be worshiped "in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24).
The term heart has a broader meaning than is commonly thought, sometimes even including the mind. In short, for better or for worse, the heart reflects the whole inner being.
The term mind refers to the immaterial dimension of a human being by which he or she thinks and imagines.
The spiritual dimension of human beings is also called the inward man: "Though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day" (2 Cor. 4:16 KJV). The inward man is related to the "things which are not seen," the things that are "eternal" and never pass away (v. 18).
Ok, that's just an quick introduction of those terms but it should suffice for now. Moving on...
Human beings are reducible neither to pure matter nor to pure spirit. We have two dimensions: body and soul. Nevertheless, these two aspects form one nature composed of form and matter (as a form/body unity not an identity). The soul survives the dissolution of the body and is conscious, albeit incompletely (apart from the body), between death and resurrection.
In addition to being one in nature (soul/body) and two in dimension (inner and outer), human beings are three in direction: They have self consciousness, world consciousness, and God consciousness. Only one of these dimensions-world consciousness is lost in the intermediate state between death and resurrection.
The resurrection will restore the wholeness and completeness of a human being as created by God-in unity. The human person embodied in flesh possesses intellect, emotion, will, and conscience.
<to be continued>.
First, I'll introduce some biblical terms that you're well acquainted with. In scripture, humans have an inner (immaterial) dimension and an outer (material) dimension. The former is often called soul (or spirit) and the latter is usually called body.
In Geisler's (and many other evangelical theologian's) 'systematic theology' series, he explains that the term soul basically means "life" and refers to the principle of life in a human being, or to that which animates the body. The primary meaning of soul can most often be captured best by translating it as the person, which usually is embodied but is sometimes disembodied.
The term spirit almost always refers to "the immaterial dimension of a human being." It is often used interchangeably with the word soul, as is indicated by many verses (Luke 1:46). The body without the soul is dead (James 2:26); at death, Jesus "bowed his head and gave up his spirit" (John 19:30). Spirit is immaterial (Luke 24:38-39). Indeed, the invisible God "is spirit" and must be worshiped "in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24).
The term heart has a broader meaning than is commonly thought, sometimes even including the mind. In short, for better or for worse, the heart reflects the whole inner being.
The term mind refers to the immaterial dimension of a human being by which he or she thinks and imagines.
The spiritual dimension of human beings is also called the inward man: "Though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day" (2 Cor. 4:16 KJV). The inward man is related to the "things which are not seen," the things that are "eternal" and never pass away (v. 18).
Ok, that's just an quick introduction of those terms but it should suffice for now. Moving on...
Human beings are reducible neither to pure matter nor to pure spirit. We have two dimensions: body and soul. Nevertheless, these two aspects form one nature composed of form and matter (as a form/body unity not an identity). The soul survives the dissolution of the body and is conscious, albeit incompletely (apart from the body), between death and resurrection.
In addition to being one in nature (soul/body) and two in dimension (inner and outer), human beings are three in direction: They have self consciousness, world consciousness, and God consciousness. Only one of these dimensions-world consciousness is lost in the intermediate state between death and resurrection.
The resurrection will restore the wholeness and completeness of a human being as created by God-in unity. The human person embodied in flesh possesses intellect, emotion, will, and conscience.
<to be continued>.
Never. But wait a minute, when we are born into the family of God and become the sons and daughters of God and become the brothers and sisters of Christ, what are we?
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
A twofold creation. Made in the image of God as a human. Made in the LIKENESS of God at the resurrection.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Notice the physical creation only made us in the image of God. What happens at the resurrection?
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Notice it does not say different from Him, but rather like Him.
Now the children are NEVER equal in authority or power to the Father or the older Brother, but they do become part of the family, not the family dog, but part of the family.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
A twofold creation. Made in the image of God as a human. Made in the LIKENESS of God at the resurrection.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Notice the physical creation only made us in the image of God. What happens at the resurrection?
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Notice it does not say different from Him, but rather like Him.
Now the children are NEVER equal in authority or power to the Father or the older Brother, but they do become part of the family, not the family dog, but part of the family.
8
HAVE another joint.......
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
I never implied that you said that....lets recap shall we.....
Your question--->yet I have also heard from many believers that man cannot become...God. Agree? Disagree? Comments?
My response.......is under the comments section...no where did I imply anything toward you.
Re: The deification of man.
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Your question--->yet I have also heard from many believers that man cannot become...God. Agree? Disagree? Comments?
My response.......is under the comments section...no where did I imply anything toward you.
Can a servant be above his MASTER...It is enough that a servant be as his MASTER..........
Jesus is God and he will always be so far above us that if it were not for him bridging the gap we would not even be able to see him.....much less become a god........!
Just is case you cannot see what was written I enlarged it for you
Jesus is God and he will always be so far above us that if it were not for him bridging the gap we would not even be able to see him.....much less become a god........!
Just is case you cannot see what was written I enlarged it for you
8
Yes, I think you are summing up the gist of what I am saying. For the most part all the responses to this "deification" question read more into my posts that is actually there. I am careful to include that man is not to become something of worship, nor are we to become "little gods", nor do we become equal with the Godhead, yet I keep hearing this over and over. The word is the word. Our relationship with God is much more than (as what posthuman posted above) "the King stepping into the chariot." A "branch in the vine" is much more than simply a bird resting in the vine. A chariot is not made in the same image and likeness as the King, nor does the Chariot become a member of the body of the King,...and son on.
I have yet to see any disagreeing responses that do anything more than offer "opinion" based on old concepts and/or human feelings.
I have yet to see any disagreeing responses that do anything more than offer "opinion" based on old concepts and/or human feelings.
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You say this is all the work of the Holy Spirit (I agree) as if that means it doesn't really apply to man. Of course it is the work of the Holy Spirit. Of course man has nothing to do with it in the same way that man has nothing to do with salvation other than receiving it. "Why would man be deified?" The only way to come to any another conclusion one would have to show that Jesus is not deity and not God. I am in the school that says He is in fact God incarnated as a man and thus He is deity. If that is what you too believe, then how can you say man cannot be deified in Christ?
Lets illustrate this way. For the moment lets forget about God. Lets pretend for the sake of illustration that you would read that something created by God was made in the image and likeness of a dog, was to be a partaker of the dogs nature, was to become a member of the dogs body, was to become one spirit with the dog, was made a vessel to contain the very Life of the dog. If you were to read something like that, you would be thinking that God was talking about a..."dog". You would expect to see something that looked like a dog, acted like a dog, and for all intents...is a dog.
Let me use one more illustration. If you wanted to try and convince someone that you were a dog, what would be more convincing, to simply dress up like a dog and pretend you were a dog by barking and chasing cars, or would it be more genuine if you could somehow actually possess the dog life and all your acting out actually came forth because of the Life that you contained? Well of course, if there was a way to actually have the life of the dog imparted into our being it would be much more real and genuine than simply pretending.
As born again believers, we are not simply to act out this life. Sadly, that's what is going on a lot of the time. People "trying" to live the christian life. The only way to actually live a genuine Godly living is to.. live Christ. That's precisely what Paul meant when he wrote "...for me to live, is Christ." Yes, we are surely becoming deified. I don't know why that word throws people off so much. It it weren't so, there would be no way for us to truly live out and express the genuine Godly living. If Paul could say "For me to live is Christ" and if Christ is God....then???
Lets illustrate this way. For the moment lets forget about God. Lets pretend for the sake of illustration that you would read that something created by God was made in the image and likeness of a dog, was to be a partaker of the dogs nature, was to become a member of the dogs body, was to become one spirit with the dog, was made a vessel to contain the very Life of the dog. If you were to read something like that, you would be thinking that God was talking about a..."dog". You would expect to see something that looked like a dog, acted like a dog, and for all intents...is a dog.
Let me use one more illustration. If you wanted to try and convince someone that you were a dog, what would be more convincing, to simply dress up like a dog and pretend you were a dog by barking and chasing cars, or would it be more genuine if you could somehow actually possess the dog life and all your acting out actually came forth because of the Life that you contained? Well of course, if there was a way to actually have the life of the dog imparted into our being it would be much more real and genuine than simply pretending.
As born again believers, we are not simply to act out this life. Sadly, that's what is going on a lot of the time. People "trying" to live the christian life. The only way to actually live a genuine Godly living is to.. live Christ. That's precisely what Paul meant when he wrote "...for me to live, is Christ." Yes, we are surely becoming deified. I don't know why that word throws people off so much. It it weren't so, there would be no way for us to truly live out and express the genuine Godly living. If Paul could say "For me to live is Christ" and if Christ is God....then???
A
Ok, still working but now that terms are introduced read this: THE DEIFICATION OF MAN - Does Partaking Of The Divine Nature Make Us Gods?
[Hint: No, it does not.]
For example, "in 2 Peter 1:4 we are told that through God's promises Christians may 'become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.' This text, even more so than Psalm 82, has suggested to many a doctrine of deification.
And indeed, if by deification one means simply 'partaking of divine nature,' then such 'deification' is unquestionably biblical. The question, then, is what does Peter mean by 'partakers of divine nature'?
Since the word 'divine' is used earlier in the same sentence ('His divine power,' verse 3), where it MUST mean 'of God,' 'divine nature' must mean God's nature.
The word 'nature,' however, should not be understood to mean 'essence.' Rather, as the context makes evident, Peter is speaking of God's moral nature or character. Thus Christians are by partaking of the divine nature to escape the corruption that is in the world because of sinful lust, and are instead to exhibit the moral attributes of Christ (cf. verses 5-11)."
We can go scripture by scripture and show conclusively that the bible is not teaching the deification of man into a god, God, or becoming like God through absorbing God's essence. All false. Those teaching the deification of humanity are in error.
[Hint: No, it does not.]
For example, "in 2 Peter 1:4 we are told that through God's promises Christians may 'become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.' This text, even more so than Psalm 82, has suggested to many a doctrine of deification.
And indeed, if by deification one means simply 'partaking of divine nature,' then such 'deification' is unquestionably biblical. The question, then, is what does Peter mean by 'partakers of divine nature'?
Since the word 'divine' is used earlier in the same sentence ('His divine power,' verse 3), where it MUST mean 'of God,' 'divine nature' must mean God's nature.
The word 'nature,' however, should not be understood to mean 'essence.' Rather, as the context makes evident, Peter is speaking of God's moral nature or character. Thus Christians are by partaking of the divine nature to escape the corruption that is in the world because of sinful lust, and are instead to exhibit the moral attributes of Christ (cf. verses 5-11)."
We can go scripture by scripture and show conclusively that the bible is not teaching the deification of man into a god, God, or becoming like God through absorbing God's essence. All false. Those teaching the deification of humanity are in error.
A
I also recommend reading the works of historical orthodox theologians such as Thomas Aquinas's, Summa Theologica's, paying attention to The Plurality of Persons in God {In Four Articles) related to this discussion:
Read and download here: https://archive.org/details/summatheologicao02thom
Read and download here: https://archive.org/details/summatheologicao02thom
8
Once again, I have never never implied that man is to become "Gods". There is an unmeasurable difference to what I am attempting to convey between man becoming "Gods" (plural), verses man becoming God (singular or a part of as in member of body).
You state that by partaking of the "divine nature" we are able to exhibit the moral attributes of God. I agree. But we must then ask ourselves, how is this accomplished? Do we exhibit the divine attributes by human endeavor? Or, do we exhibit the divine attributes by His indwelling Life being produced and coming forth in our living? I would suspect it would be the latter. Lets take this thought a little deeper. The bible says that "God IS love". I think you would agree that "divine love" is an essence of God. Nowhere does the bible tells us that "man is love", yet the bible tells us that we are to express to others Gods love. How is this able to occur? We can read in the bible that we are to love others with the love of God and go out and strive to do that, yet without actually being indwelt with that divine love we will fail. This is what it means and is the purpose behind being "born again", or born of God.
When we are born again, we are not simply turning over a new leaf. We are actually being born of God. When we are born of God, we are receiving the very essence of God. This receiving is much more than simply receiving a "teaching". When Jesus became the "life giving spirit" (1Cor 15:45) it was so man could become one spirit with God. He who is joined to the Lord is one Spirit..(1Cor 6:17) One Spirit is...one. Not two. And not One and then a bunch of other little ones. It is one. Joined to be one Spirit, doesn't mean we simply come into "agreement" or some kind of enlightenment. It means that our vessel that is formed in the image and likeness of God is filled or at least being filled, with the divine essence. Then that part of our being that is in the "shape of love" if you will, is filled with the divine love. Only in this way is man able to genuinely express the divine essence of love. Any other attempt at this is only "teaching" followed by human endeavor.
Our christian living finds its source either in teachings, or LIFE. It's one or the other. The Old Test already gave us "teachings" on how to live a Godly living. Of course this was never meant to be the goal. God's goal was always to bring man fully into God that man could come out from the shadows and into the reality of the divine living. This is why Jesus referred to Himself as the "bread of Life", meaning we are to consume Him inwardly as our very food and life supply that His very Life could be assimilated into our being that our living would be not simply a teaching, but would be a spontaneous shinning out and testimony of what we...are. We would live what we are,... verses trying to live what we think were suppose to be. Paul: "for me to live,..is Christ".
And this also is what it really means to be a "child of God" or a "son of God". A child of another, is deemed that because he/she shares the same life essence. Do you have children? If so, what is it that makes him/her your child? Does behaviour? Does even obedience? No, these are only characteristics that may or may not be present. The only thing that must be present before anything else to deem that one your child is that they share your life, and yes, your life essence. Without the life essence, they may be the most good behavioured child, the most obedient child in the world, yet you cannot call them your child unless they are "of you".
So, I ask again...are you born of God? If the answer is yes, then I also ask, what is it that you are born of? Have you just accepted a doctrine? Or have you actually been born of God in spirit, to become one spirit with the Lord? How can we possibly come to any conclusion other than that we have been joined to God and are deified with Him?
The Lord Jesus spoke a very strong hard word to His disciples that is very much related to this thought when in John 6 He shared with them about "he who eats Me shall live because of Me". Because of their pre-conceived concepts it says that most of the disciples (yes, disciples) left and did not walk with him any longer (vs 66). I believe this thought of becoming one with God in life and nature is exactly what the Lord Jesus was getting at when He talked about "eating Him". In essence, we are what we eat. No we don't become a carrot be eating lots of carrots. We aren't made in the image and likeness of a carrot either. Further we aren't called to express the divine attributes of a.. carrot. In giving them this bold word about eating His flesh and drinking His blood the Lord Jesus's goal was to begin to transfer those Jews from the old covenant of "teaching" into the new covenant of "Life". Those few that remained still didn't actually get it, but they at least saw that Jesus spoke words of "eternal Life" (vs 68). Of course Jesus also told them that the words He spoke were spirit and life..(vs 63).
This matter of deification of man is I admit a very hard word to receive if one has faced it for the first time. I too was basically repelled by it and rejected it out of hand the first time I heard it. However, over time I had to come to grips with the fact that my rejection was based mostly on my general feelings about our humanity and the utter majesty of the Godhead. When I began to dig into it a little further and began to realize that it wasn't about me being part of the Godhead to be be something that is worshipped, nor was it about becoming a bunch of little gods running about. But, that it was more about being brought into a relationship with God based on His divine life becoming/joining into a oneness with our life that we could actually grow in that divine life, resulting in a living that was ever more becoming a spontaneous living out of the divine virtues an account of that was simply what I was. I would no longer "strive" but would simply live what I was (as a member of His body).
You state that by partaking of the "divine nature" we are able to exhibit the moral attributes of God. I agree. But we must then ask ourselves, how is this accomplished? Do we exhibit the divine attributes by human endeavor? Or, do we exhibit the divine attributes by His indwelling Life being produced and coming forth in our living? I would suspect it would be the latter. Lets take this thought a little deeper. The bible says that "God IS love". I think you would agree that "divine love" is an essence of God. Nowhere does the bible tells us that "man is love", yet the bible tells us that we are to express to others Gods love. How is this able to occur? We can read in the bible that we are to love others with the love of God and go out and strive to do that, yet without actually being indwelt with that divine love we will fail. This is what it means and is the purpose behind being "born again", or born of God.
When we are born again, we are not simply turning over a new leaf. We are actually being born of God. When we are born of God, we are receiving the very essence of God. This receiving is much more than simply receiving a "teaching". When Jesus became the "life giving spirit" (1Cor 15:45) it was so man could become one spirit with God. He who is joined to the Lord is one Spirit..(1Cor 6:17) One Spirit is...one. Not two. And not One and then a bunch of other little ones. It is one. Joined to be one Spirit, doesn't mean we simply come into "agreement" or some kind of enlightenment. It means that our vessel that is formed in the image and likeness of God is filled or at least being filled, with the divine essence. Then that part of our being that is in the "shape of love" if you will, is filled with the divine love. Only in this way is man able to genuinely express the divine essence of love. Any other attempt at this is only "teaching" followed by human endeavor.
Our christian living finds its source either in teachings, or LIFE. It's one or the other. The Old Test already gave us "teachings" on how to live a Godly living. Of course this was never meant to be the goal. God's goal was always to bring man fully into God that man could come out from the shadows and into the reality of the divine living. This is why Jesus referred to Himself as the "bread of Life", meaning we are to consume Him inwardly as our very food and life supply that His very Life could be assimilated into our being that our living would be not simply a teaching, but would be a spontaneous shinning out and testimony of what we...are. We would live what we are,... verses trying to live what we think were suppose to be. Paul: "for me to live,..is Christ".
And this also is what it really means to be a "child of God" or a "son of God". A child of another, is deemed that because he/she shares the same life essence. Do you have children? If so, what is it that makes him/her your child? Does behaviour? Does even obedience? No, these are only characteristics that may or may not be present. The only thing that must be present before anything else to deem that one your child is that they share your life, and yes, your life essence. Without the life essence, they may be the most good behavioured child, the most obedient child in the world, yet you cannot call them your child unless they are "of you".
So, I ask again...are you born of God? If the answer is yes, then I also ask, what is it that you are born of? Have you just accepted a doctrine? Or have you actually been born of God in spirit, to become one spirit with the Lord? How can we possibly come to any conclusion other than that we have been joined to God and are deified with Him?
The Lord Jesus spoke a very strong hard word to His disciples that is very much related to this thought when in John 6 He shared with them about "he who eats Me shall live because of Me". Because of their pre-conceived concepts it says that most of the disciples (yes, disciples) left and did not walk with him any longer (vs 66). I believe this thought of becoming one with God in life and nature is exactly what the Lord Jesus was getting at when He talked about "eating Him". In essence, we are what we eat. No we don't become a carrot be eating lots of carrots. We aren't made in the image and likeness of a carrot either. Further we aren't called to express the divine attributes of a.. carrot. In giving them this bold word about eating His flesh and drinking His blood the Lord Jesus's goal was to begin to transfer those Jews from the old covenant of "teaching" into the new covenant of "Life". Those few that remained still didn't actually get it, but they at least saw that Jesus spoke words of "eternal Life" (vs 68). Of course Jesus also told them that the words He spoke were spirit and life..(vs 63).
This matter of deification of man is I admit a very hard word to receive if one has faced it for the first time. I too was basically repelled by it and rejected it out of hand the first time I heard it. However, over time I had to come to grips with the fact that my rejection was based mostly on my general feelings about our humanity and the utter majesty of the Godhead. When I began to dig into it a little further and began to realize that it wasn't about me being part of the Godhead to be be something that is worshipped, nor was it about becoming a bunch of little gods running about. But, that it was more about being brought into a relationship with God based on His divine life becoming/joining into a oneness with our life that we could actually grow in that divine life, resulting in a living that was ever more becoming a spontaneous living out of the divine virtues an account of that was simply what I was. I would no longer "strive" but would simply live what I was (as a member of His body).
So by being deified, you have the attributes of God, right?
Like omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence?
I used to think that one day, when Jesus returned I would be like that. That I would have all the answers to all the questions of the universe.
Then I realized it would make me God. I think instead, we are being changed into the image of God's holy and loving nature. And on that final day and beyond, we will no longer be tempted by sin. And we will love in word and deed.
I think the Bible is clear we are being transformed into the image of Christ. The implications of that fact are staggering! But that does not mean we will in any way be deified. I know the OP has clarified himself in saying that we will not be God, not be someone to worship.
But then, we would not be God.
Only God is worthy of our worship and praise! So if we are not worthy of worship and worship, then quite simply, we are not deified, and we will never be God, gods or anything else of the sort.
"He is your praise. He is your God, who has done for you these great and terrifying things that your eyes have seen."Deut. 10:21
"Enter his gates with thanksgiving,
and his courts with praise!
Give thanks to him; bless his name!" Psalm 100:4
"Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised,
and his greatness is unsearchable." Psalm 145:3
"Worthy are you, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they existed and were created.”" Rev. 4:11
Like omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence?
I used to think that one day, when Jesus returned I would be like that. That I would have all the answers to all the questions of the universe.
Then I realized it would make me God. I think instead, we are being changed into the image of God's holy and loving nature. And on that final day and beyond, we will no longer be tempted by sin. And we will love in word and deed.
I think the Bible is clear we are being transformed into the image of Christ. The implications of that fact are staggering! But that does not mean we will in any way be deified. I know the OP has clarified himself in saying that we will not be God, not be someone to worship.
But then, we would not be God.
Only God is worthy of our worship and praise! So if we are not worthy of worship and worship, then quite simply, we are not deified, and we will never be God, gods or anything else of the sort.
"He is your praise. He is your God, who has done for you these great and terrifying things that your eyes have seen."Deut. 10:21
"Enter his gates with thanksgiving,
and his courts with praise!
Give thanks to him; bless his name!" Psalm 100:4
"Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised,
and his greatness is unsearchable." Psalm 145:3
"Worthy are you, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they existed and were created.”" Rev. 4:11
A
Mankind does not become God. If you're stating something else, then you'll need to clarify it because that's what it looks to me that you're asserting and it's a false assertion.
Scripture teaches that God the Holy Spirit fills people and spiritually regenerates them; however, this does not result in people becoming God.
I think what's going to be difficult for you is coming to accept the reality that scripture teaches that God transforms people and brings them into a new relationship and position with Himself without them becoming God.
For example, at the end of the apostle John's life he observed the early church and stated they had received as a gift the sense of such union to the Son of God that they become alive to the fact that they too are the offspring of God. God the Holy Spirit had passed into them, regenerating them, and they cried "Abba, Father" in response.
John affirms this in a very interesting way. For example in John 1, he repudiates any connection with mere hereditary privilege. No twice-born Brahmin, no dignified race, no descendant of Abraham, etc... Rather it is found in the full revelation of the name of the incarnate Logos who fashioned humanity in His image and regenerated those who would receive by his Holy Spirit without them becoming God.
The reason why your false assertion to the contrary is "hard to accept" is because it's in error.
Scripture teaches that God the Holy Spirit fills people and spiritually regenerates them; however, this does not result in people becoming God.
I think what's going to be difficult for you is coming to accept the reality that scripture teaches that God transforms people and brings them into a new relationship and position with Himself without them becoming God.
For example, at the end of the apostle John's life he observed the early church and stated they had received as a gift the sense of such union to the Son of God that they become alive to the fact that they too are the offspring of God. God the Holy Spirit had passed into them, regenerating them, and they cried "Abba, Father" in response.
John affirms this in a very interesting way. For example in John 1, he repudiates any connection with mere hereditary privilege. No twice-born Brahmin, no dignified race, no descendant of Abraham, etc... Rather it is found in the full revelation of the name of the incarnate Logos who fashioned humanity in His image and regenerated those who would receive by his Holy Spirit without them becoming God.
The reason why your false assertion to the contrary is "hard to accept" is because it's in error.