The devil
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Because God is perfect justice [from my studying this is what I understand].
It will always be true that every matter MUST be established (as true) by two or more witnesses.
The adversary was constantly accusing man of his/her unworthiness to have earth's dominion (and by result, was challenging God's rule by virtue of the fact that God gave man earth's dominion). So one of two facts must be proven true in this heavenly court case:
A) Whether man is NOT worthy of dominion (thereby exonerating the adversary of his actions and removing God from his throne.)
B) Whether man IS worthy of dominion (thereby condemning the adversary because of his murderous actions)
And until either was proven (as true), the adversary had rightful, legal access to earth's dominion through fallen man (because Adam proved he wasn't worthy)...as well as access to heaven, as scenes likes his conversation with God in Job - and Christ's temptation in Gospels - prove.
...But Christ (as the "son of man") successfully proved that man IS worthy of dominion, since - emptied and fully a man - he resisted sin at all points. And when he (a truly innocent man) was killed, that sealed the adversary's fate. As an obedient son of man (all his life), he now has rightful dominion to earth. And as the son of God he has rightful rule of heaven.
Christ then ascended to heaven, and the adversary was cast out. Then the clock started ticking til his judgment, so in great wrath the adversary unleashes his masterpiece (layers and layers and layers of deception & detraction)...because this case only needs one more witness to confirm the full, pure, unadulterated truth of the "testimony of Christ" (and it is written that there will be *two* witnesses that prove this, not just one...).
Once this happens...game over. Jail time.
It will always be true that every matter MUST be established (as true) by two or more witnesses.
The adversary was constantly accusing man of his/her unworthiness to have earth's dominion (and by result, was challenging God's rule by virtue of the fact that God gave man earth's dominion). So one of two facts must be proven true in this heavenly court case:
A) Whether man is NOT worthy of dominion (thereby exonerating the adversary of his actions and removing God from his throne.)
B) Whether man IS worthy of dominion (thereby condemning the adversary because of his murderous actions)
And until either was proven (as true), the adversary had rightful, legal access to earth's dominion through fallen man (because Adam proved he wasn't worthy)...as well as access to heaven, as scenes likes his conversation with God in Job - and Christ's temptation in Gospels - prove.
...But Christ (as the "son of man") successfully proved that man IS worthy of dominion, since - emptied and fully a man - he resisted sin at all points. And when he (a truly innocent man) was killed, that sealed the adversary's fate. As an obedient son of man (all his life), he now has rightful dominion to earth. And as the son of God he has rightful rule of heaven.
Christ then ascended to heaven, and the adversary was cast out. Then the clock started ticking til his judgment, so in great wrath the adversary unleashes his masterpiece (layers and layers and layers of deception & detraction)...because this case only needs one more witness to confirm the full, pure, unadulterated truth of the "testimony of Christ" (and it is written that there will be *two* witnesses that prove this, not just one...).
Once this happens...game over. Jail time.
Sure (sorry about that). Here's the full passage to answer your question. Revelation 12 starts off with the phrase "and there appeared a great wonder in heaven". This means John started having *another* vision of the same event that he previously saw, only from another perspective (like with Daniel, God always gives more than one vision of the same thing because - again - the testimony of 2 or more establishes truth).
Revelation 12:5-10
Christ foresaw when the adversary would be cast out of heaven during his ministry, when his disciples were casting out demons (Luke 10:17-18)...but yes, scripture says the actual event occurred when Christ ascended to heaven. Then there was a war in heaven where the adversary and his agents were cast out of heaven. Which resulted in the clock ticking away to his judgment. Because of this he has great wrath. Before that, the adversary had a rightful place in heaven.
Revelation 12:5-10
Christ foresaw when the adversary would be cast out of heaven during his ministry, when his disciples were casting out demons (Luke 10:17-18)...but yes, scripture says the actual event occurred when Christ ascended to heaven. Then there was a war in heaven where the adversary and his agents were cast out of heaven. Which resulted in the clock ticking away to his judgment. Because of this he has great wrath. Before that, the adversary had a rightful place in heaven.
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I beg to disagree that the only time the devil was cast out of heaven is when Jesus ascended into heaven.
I believe that the devil was cast out of heaven from the begining
Will God allow sin to dwell with him hmmm why did God cast out Adam and Eve as soon as they sin out of the garden of Eden?
PSALMS 94
20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law?
Revelation is not a book of only future events
Revelation 1
King James Version (KJV)
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
what i understand the book states past present and future events .
I believe that the devil was cast out of heaven from the begining
Will God allow sin to dwell with him hmmm why did God cast out Adam and Eve as soon as they sin out of the garden of Eden?
PSALMS 94
20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law?
Revelation is not a book of only future events
Revelation 1
King James Version (KJV)
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
what i understand the book states past present and future events .
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why i said that revelation is book that shew past present and futre events hmmm
lste go back to revelation 12 and permit me to highlight why i said what i said
[h=3]Revelation 12[/h]King James Version (KJV)
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
My question to you is this. When was Jesus ( man child ) born ? When did Herod want to kill Jesus ? hmmm something to think about . is it only in the time of revelation some future event
lste go back to revelation 12 and permit me to highlight why i said what i said
[h=3]Revelation 12[/h]King James Version (KJV)
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
My question to you is this. When was Jesus ( man child ) born ? When did Herod want to kill Jesus ? hmmm something to think about . is it only in the time of revelation some future event
When else was the adversary cast out? Maybe I'm missing another instance.
No God won't allow sin to dwell with him...
...But let's remember that the temple Moses was commanded to build was designed to *mirror* the heavenly. In the temple there are three major chambers: The outer court, the holy place, and the most holy place.
1. The Outer Court: Anyone was allowed in this area...it's even trampled underfoot in Revelation 11.
2. The Holy Place: Only the priests/kings were allowed in this area.
3. The Most Holy: Only the pure High Priest was allowed in this area. This was the throne room where the presence of God rested.
...What is in heaven so must be on earth, so the heavens are setup the same way. Paul even spoke of being caught up to the 3rd heaven.
So in the earthly temple, separated by the veil, the high priest was mediator between those residing in the outer court and God in the holy place. Likewise, the Angel of Yah was that mediator for the heavens. So whenever God spoke with anyone it was through this messenger because scripture can't be broken. Remember no one has *seen* God (not even the adversary)...only the son has declared him.
So the adversary had *a place* in heaven just like all other angels...this doesn't mean that place was at God's side in the throne room or that his Most holy place was tainted. There equally had to be a veil separating God's holiness. But at the cross, the veil was ripped opening the Holy place to the Most Holy place (which is why the priests are seen WITH the throne in Revelation 4).
No God won't allow sin to dwell with him...
...But let's remember that the temple Moses was commanded to build was designed to *mirror* the heavenly. In the temple there are three major chambers: The outer court, the holy place, and the most holy place.
1. The Outer Court: Anyone was allowed in this area...it's even trampled underfoot in Revelation 11.
2. The Holy Place: Only the priests/kings were allowed in this area.
3. The Most Holy: Only the pure High Priest was allowed in this area. This was the throne room where the presence of God rested.
...What is in heaven so must be on earth, so the heavens are setup the same way. Paul even spoke of being caught up to the 3rd heaven.
So in the earthly temple, separated by the veil, the high priest was mediator between those residing in the outer court and God in the holy place. Likewise, the Angel of Yah was that mediator for the heavens. So whenever God spoke with anyone it was through this messenger because scripture can't be broken. Remember no one has *seen* God (not even the adversary)...only the son has declared him.
So the adversary had *a place* in heaven just like all other angels...this doesn't mean that place was at God's side in the throne room or that his Most holy place was tainted. There equally had to be a veil separating God's holiness. But at the cross, the veil was ripped opening the Holy place to the Most Holy place (which is why the priests are seen WITH the throne in Revelation 4).
I believe Revelation 12 is a summary outside of time...sure...but we (still in time) still had to play it out. The sequence is as follows:
a) woman with child = Israel - through Mary - labors with Christ
b) the dragon waiting to devour the child = the adversary - through Herod - wanted to kill Christ (so he's fled to Egypt)
c) woman births child = Israel - through Mary - birth's Christ
d) child caught up to God & throne = Christ's ascension after his triumph at the cross & resurrection.
e) then the rest of the scene plays out where the dragon is cast out of heaven...having no more place in heaven.
a) woman with child = Israel - through Mary - labors with Christ
b) the dragon waiting to devour the child = the adversary - through Herod - wanted to kill Christ (so he's fled to Egypt)
c) woman births child = Israel - through Mary - birth's Christ
d) child caught up to God & throne = Christ's ascension after his triumph at the cross & resurrection.
e) then the rest of the scene plays out where the dragon is cast out of heaven...having no more place in heaven.
K
First of all God created all the angels at one time. They do not have children ( sorry catholics no baby angels). Lucifer has the highest angel in heaven and led the praise and worship service ( thats why he is so talented in music and most don't know it). He chose to rebel against God thinking that he himself could be God. He himself is deceived and the master deceiver. God created everything good and then gave them and us a choice. Remember that 1/3 of the angels CHOOSE to side with satan. So much for predestination. God created man knowing that he would fail, but had a plan even before creation and that was Jesus Christ and Him crucified.