The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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The restrainer is Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is in the people of God which is referred to as His Church body, He is the Head of the Church body

Holy spirit is non only in the Christian, Holy spirit is omnipresent, mean every where.
The Tribulation" is Yahweh Elohim pouring out His wrath on mankind. Those who are His are not subject to His wrath, he chastens His
What happen in Tribulation ?

Rev 13 say the beast Will make all to take mark or can not buy or sale

Is that wrath of God?

Wrath of God only to the wicked not to Christian, like happen to agypt when they not let Israel go.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Hi There again!


These Christians some dead some alive, are called up, caught up, harpazo (spelling) to The LORD.
The 2nd Coming is The LORD on Earth, "treading the wine-press"

There are many raptures "in type" all throughout scripture,
Ex. Lot and his family.

God Bless..
So you believe there is big rapture before gt?

Where is the verse?
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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I did It so many time, read my past post

As in preterism, pre- trib. sees the opposite,,,one says "its way back in the past and don't apply to us" ,,,,the other says "it's way in the future and don't apply to us" ....this causes the both of them to relax and pay no attention to the events taking place present tense or as history has unfolded,,,I think it is by design...
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,421
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As in preterism, pre- trib. sees the opposite,,,one says "its way back in the past and don't apply to us" ,,,,the other says "it's way in the future and don't apply to us" ....this causes the both of them to relax and pay no attention to the events taking place present tense or as history has unfolded,,,I think it is by design...
I don't wuite understand

You say It is by design, who design and why ? Any good reason to design this fenomena?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,442
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If you willing to explain, I Will be Happy to read it
1. In Genesis 5 we read that God "took Enoch". In Hebrews 11 we read that Enoch was "translated". That is the first example of a pretribulation Rapture. Enoch was walking on earth at one moment and the next moment he was gone -- vanished from the face of the earth. Since God is in Heaven, if Enoch was taken by God, then it is logical that he went to Heaven. This was BEFORE the judgment of the Flood (an example of the Tribulation and Great Tribulation periods, when judgments are poured out).

2. Then we have Noah and his family safe in the Ark while the severe judgment of the Flood occurred. Again Noah was safe BEFORE anything happened.

3. Then we have Lot (called righteous even though he made some terrible choices). He was forcibly dragged out of Sodom with his wife and daughters by angels BEFORE fire and brimstone was poured out on Sodom and Gomorrah.

4. Then we have Elijah taken to Heaven in a heavenly chariot with heavenly horses. Another example of the Rapture. He was on earth at one moment, gone the next. The judgment on the kingdom of Israel came later.

So what we see is that God reserves the wicked for His judgments while He preserves His saints from the same. This is the fundamental principle of the pretribulation Rapture.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
5,129
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I don't wuite understand

You say It is by design, who design and why ? Any good reason to design this fenomena?
If it is in the future why watch? If it is in the past why watch? The only reason you are watching is because you see it present tense...
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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1. In Genesis 5 we read that God "took Enoch". In Hebrews 11 we read that Enoch was "translated". That is the first example of a pretribulation Rapture. Enoch was walking on earth at one moment and the next moment he was gone -- vanished from the face of the earth. Since God is in Heaven, if Enoch was taken by God, then it is logical that he went to Heaven. This was BEFORE the judgment of the Flood (an example of the Tribulation and Great Tribulation periods, when judgments are poured out).

2. Then we have Noah and his family safe in the Ark while the severe judgment of the Flood occurred. Again Noah was safe BEFORE anything happened.

3. Then we have Lot (called righteous even though he made some terrible choices). He was forcibly dragged out of Sodom with his wife and daughters by angels BEFORE fire and brimstone was poured out on Sodom and Gomorrah.

4. Then we have Elijah taken to Heaven in a heavenly chariot with heavenly horses. Another example of the Rapture. He was on earth at one moment, gone the next. The judgment on the kingdom of Israel came later.

So what we see is that God reserves the wicked for His judgments while He preserves His saints from the same. This is the fundamental principle of the pretribulation Rapture.
Sure God not punish the believer.

But reve 13 descrioe great tribulation not as wrath of God.

God not make a rule only mark taker able to buy or sale.
This rule must come from the devil. Not wrath of God

I don't know why some time God not stop devil tribulation happen

Example It happen to Stephen, God not stop

To John the baptist and God not stop.

When wrath of God come to agypt, God not rapture Israel but he able to poprotect them from some wrath, inrecall God protect the from 5 wrath out of 10. I may wrong.

But according to oaul,rapture Will not happen before man If sin

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 thesalonians
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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876
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If it is in the future why watch? If it is in the past why watch? The only reason you are watching is because you see it present tense...
Jesus tell us what is the sign of His second coming.

Seem to me some sign like war, ( we 1 and ww2) happen, and love become less and less, and now we have weapon of mass destruction, not 100 years ago. So I am wiry, it may very close
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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The story of the development of pre-tribulationism as we know it today is a tangled one. From its inception in the early 1800s, there has been a deliberate attempt to cover up its origins. This has been perpetrated along two lines of ‘revisionism.’ One was to hide the real origin of pre-tribulationism in 19th century Scotland, and attribute it to John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren. The other has been a recent attempt to selectively quote and misrepresent ancient Christian documents to make it appear early Christians were pre-trib. The purpose of this article is to document a timeline of the major events in the development of this relatively new prophetic viewpoint. Sometime in June of 1830 and out of the spectacle of alleged latter-day Holy Spirit outpouring in Scotland and England, the first documented evidence of a pre-tribulation rapture articulated in the form of a letter written by Margaret MacDonald, sister of James and George MacDonald of Port Glasgow. In March or April of 1830, after being ill and bed-ridden for about 18 months, Margaret claimed to have seen a series of visions of the coming of the Lord. She wrote down these visions and sent a copy to Edward Irving who pastored a Church of Scotland (Presbyterian) congregation in London. A month later Irving claimed in a private letter that Margaret’s visions had a huge impact on him. The outstanding feature of Margaret’s visions was an outpouring of the Holy Spirit on an elite group within the Church, combined with a secret rapture before the revealing of the Antichrist. She saw only these “Spirit filled” Christians “taken” to be with the Lord, while the rest of the Church without this experience would be left to be purged in the tribulation.
Here is the letter Margaret MacDonald wrote to Edward Irving.
“It was first the awful state of the land that was pressed upon me. I saw the blindness and infatuation of the people to be very great. I felt the cry of Liberty just to be the hiss of the serpent, to drown them in perdition. It was just `no God.’ I repeated the words, Now there is distress of nations, with perplexity, the seas and the waves roaring, men’s hearts failing them for fear - now look out for the sign of the Son of man. Here I was made to stop and cry out. 0 it is not known what the sign of the Son of man
is; the people of God think they are waiting, but they know not what it is. I felt this needed to be revealed, and that there was great darkness and error about it; but suddenly what it was burst upon me with a glorious light I saw it was just the Lord himself descending from Heaven with a shout, just the glorified man. even Jesus; but that all must, as Stephen was, be filled with the Holy Ghost, that they might look up, and see the brightness of the Father’s glory. I saw the error to be, that men think that it will be something seen by the natural eye; but ’tis spiritual discernment that is needed, the eye of God in his people. Many passages were revealed, in a light in which I had not before seen them. I repeated, "Now is the kingdom of Heaven like unto ten virgins, who went forth to meet the Bridegroom, five wise and five foolish; they that were foolish took their lamps, but took no oil with them; but they that were wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.’ “But be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is; and be not drunk with wine wherein is excess, but be filled with the Spirit.” This was the oil the wise virgins took in their vessels - this is the light to be kept burning - the light of God - that we may discern that which cometh not with observation to the natural eye. Only those who have the light of God within them will see the sign of his appearance. No need to follow them who say, see here, or see there, for his day shall be as the lightning to those in whom the living Christ is. ’Tis Christ in us that will lift us up - he is the light - ‘tis only those that are alive in him that will be caught up to meet him in the air. I saw that we must be in the Spirit, that we might see spiritual things. John was in the Spirit, when he saw a throne set in Heaven. - But I saw that the glory of the ministration of the Spirit had not been known. I repeated frequently, but the spiritual temple must and shall be reared, and the fullness of Christ be poured into his body, and then shall we be caught up to meet him. Oh none will be counted worthy of this calling but his body, which is the church, and which must be a candlestick all of gold. I often said, Oh the glorious in breaking of God which is now about to burst on this earth; Oh the glorious temple which is now about to be reared, the bride adorned for her husband; and Oh what a holy, holy bride she must be, to be prepared for such a glorious bridegroom. I said, Now shall the people of God have to do with realities - now shall the glorious mystery of God in our nature be known - now shall it be known what it is for man to be glorified. I felt that the revelation of Jesus Christ had yet to be opened up - it is not knowledge about God that it contains, but it is an entering into God - I saw that there was a glorious breaking in of God to be. I felt as Elijah surrounded with chariots of fire. I saw as it were, the spiritual temple reared, and the Head Stone brought forth with shoutings of grace, grace, unto it. It was a glorious light above the brightness of the sun, that shone round about me. I felt that those who were filled with the spirit could see spiritual things, and feel walking in the midst of them, while those who had not the Spirit could see nothing - so that two shall be in one bed, the one taken and the other left, because the one has the light of God within while the other cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven. I saw the people of God in an awfully dangerous situation, surrounded by nets and entanglements, about to be tried, and many about to be deceived and fall. Now will THE WICKED be revealed, with all power and signs and lying wonders, so that if it were possible the very elect will be deceived. - This is the fiery trial which is to try us. - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus; but Oh it will be a fiery trial. Every soul will be shaken to the very centre. The enemy will try to shake in everything we have believed - But the trial of real faith will be found to honor and praise and glory. Nothing but what is of God will stand. The stony-ground hearers will be made manifest - the love of many will wax cold I frequently said that night, and often since, now shall the awful sight of a false Christ be seen on this earth, and nothing but the living Christ in us can detect this awful attempt of the enemy to deceive - or it is with all deceivableness of unrighteousness he will work - he will have a counterpart for every part of
God’s truth and an imitation for every work of the Spirit. The Spirit must and will be poured out on the church, that she may be purified and filled with God - and just in proportion as the Spirit of God works, so will he when our Lord anoints men with power, so will he. This is particularly the nature of the trial, through which those are to pass who will be counted
worthy to stand before the Son of man. There will be outward trial too, but `tis principally temptation. It is brought on by the outpouring of the Spirit, and will just increase in proportion as the Spirit is poured out. The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept. I frequently said, Oh be filled with the Spirit - have the light of God in you, that you may detect Satan - be full of eyes within - be clay in the hands of the potter - submit to be filled, filled with God This will build the temple. It is not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit saith the Lord. This will fit us to enter into the marriage supper of the lamb. I saw It to be the will of God that all should be filled. But what hindered the real life of God from being received by his people was their turning from Jesus who is the way to the Father. They were not entering in by the door. For he is faithful who hath said, by me if any man enter in he shall find pasture. They were passing the cross, through which every drop of the Spirit of God flows to us. All power that comes not through the blood of Christ is not of God. When I say, they are looking from the cross, I feel that there is much in it - they turn from the blood of the Lamb, by which we overcome, and in which our robes are washed and made white. There are low views of God’s holiness, and ceasing to condemn sin in the flesh, and a looking from him who humbled himself, and made himself of no reputation. Oh! it is needed, much needed at present, a leading back to the cross, I saw that night,
and often since, that there will be an outpouring of the Spirit on the body, such as has not been, a baptism of fire, that all the dross may be put away. Oh there must and will be such an indwelling of the living God as has not been - the servants of God sealed in their foreheads - great conformity to Jesus - his holy image seen in his people just the bride made comely, by his comeliness put upon her. This is what we are at present made to pray much for, that speedily we may all be made ready to meet our Lord in the air - and it will be. Jesus wants his bride. His desire is toward us. He that shall come, will come, and will not tarry. Amen and Amen. Even so come Lord Jesus.”
Well, we will see :)
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
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Yes we will. The Democrats just tried to create a cryptocurrency and have it put into this last Covid 19 relief package. Most people would say that there are already cryptocurrencies like bitcoin and others so no big deal. But the Cryptocurrency the Democrats wanted to set up would have been backed up by the central bank in America. This would have major influence on the banking system of the world and create the first cryptocurrency that would be backed up by the central bank of a country.
A bill has surfaced in the Senate called the ‘Banking For All Act’, sponsored by the Ranking Member of the Senate Banking Committee, U.S. Senator Sherrod Brown (D-OH). In the press release, Senator Brown lays out the details of his bill as well as how he looks forward to urging his colleagues to include it as part of the coronavirus economic stimulus package.
This bill offers a definition for digital dollars as well as for a digital dollar wallet, and provides the provision for a pass-through digital dollar wallet with the mandate for all member banks to open and maintain digital dollar wallets for all persons, including those eligible to receive the stimulus.
In the United States, the vast majority of banks, with the exception of the big banks such as Wells Fargo that are supervised by the OCC, have the option to be members of the Federal Reserve and to buy shares in the Reserve as a way of becoming a ‘member bank.’ These banks are then supervised and regulated by the Federal Reserve. A ‘non-member bank’ is a bank that chooses not to be a ‘member’ of the Federal Reserve and is regulated by the FDIC.


For large banks, there is a provision in the bill that online applications for pass-through digital wallets must be made available. The pass-through digital wallet contains consumer protection terms where it notes the wallet ‘shall not be subject to any account fees, minimum balances, or maximum balances and shall pay interest at a rate not below the greater of the rate of interest on required reserves and the rate of interest on excess reserves’.

Federal Reserve Banks and the U.S. Postal ‘Banking’ Service

From one institution that likely most Americans have never even entered, the Federal Reserve, to the Post Office, where sometimes daily visits can be part of a person’s routine, this bill includes mandates for each agency to assist in the supply of digital dollar wallets for all. The Federal Reserve may maintain digital dollar wallets. And for low-income areas where the Federal Reserve may not be able to have a branch, the Fed will partner with postal retail facilities to carry out this mandate. For access to the digital cash, ATMs will be provided at U.S. Post Offices.

Now that both Chambers - the House and the Senate - have legislation introduced within both the Senate Banking Committee and the House Financial Services Committee, it does appear that the concept of digital dollars is one that Congress realizes reaches beyond the current coronavirus crisis, and may become a bi-partisan issue. With concerns over China and other countries developing a CBDC, the U.S. might be using this bill to introduce its own digital currency - and also be looking to solve one of the oldest policy issues of all in reaching out to offering banking services to the unbanked and underbanked.
Since the dollar is the dominant currency around the world and all oil is bought and sold in US dollars this creates a cryptocurrency that could be and in some cases would have to be used world wide.
Bottom line here is that this is a giant step closer to the Mark of the Beast.

Christ comes for a church without spot or wrinkle. I.E. a perfect church just as Christ was and this is the single geatest reason why I believe that we will suffer a period of great tribulation because a period of great tribulation would separate the luke warm and fake believers from the true believers of Christ. Like chaff, you throw wheat up in the air and the wheat falls to the ground but the chaff is blown away leaving only the best on the ground. Or like silver, you bring it to a boil so the impurities are brought to the surface which are then scraped off and this was done seven times in the day of Christ to purify silver.
The anointing oil used in the Temple comes from the sap of a bush or tree and it has to be hammered and crushed before it can be used in the anointing oil. But the more it is hammered and crushed ore fragrant it becomes. The Church needs to be hammered and crushed before it will be ready for Christ to return.
 
Nov 17, 2017
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HI!
So you believe there is big rapture before gt?

Where is the verse?
Do you remember saying "Wrath of God only to the wicked not to Christian, like happen to agypt when they not let Israel go."

The LORD removes His Church which is not subject to His wrath, "Wrath of God only to the wicked not to Christian.."

God bless..
 
Nov 17, 2017
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massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
544
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HI!


Do you remember saying "Wrath of God only to the wicked not to Christian, like happen to agypt when they not let Israel go."

The LORD removes His Church which is not subject to His wrath, "Wrath of God only to the wicked not to Christian.."

God bless..
That is garbage. The word "Wrath" means "punishment" and the word "Tribulation" means "Affliction". Two different words and two different meanings. We are not appointed to suffer the wrath of God but we are told to count all tribulations as joy.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Jas 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

The word "temptations" is talking about tribulations.
We are appointed to suffer great tribulations.
1Th 3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellow labourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:
1Th 3:3 That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.
1Th 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

1Th 3:5 For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.
So God could and will allow us to go through a period of Great Tribulation for the purpose of perfecting our faith.
What about the Columnbine girl??? She had a gun pointed at her face when the shooter asked her if she believed in Christhen she said yes he shoot her in the face and killed her. What makes any of us so much better then her to the point that God would not allow that to happen to us??? If God allowed that to happen to a child He can and will allow it to happen to us.
 
Nov 17, 2017
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Hi again!
The word "Wrath" means "
G2372 θυμός thumos (thï-mos') n.
passion (as if breathing hard).
[from G2380]
KJV: fierceness, indignation, wrath
Root(s): G2380


and the word "Tribulation" means
G2347 θλίψις thlipsis (thliy'-psis) n.
pressure.
{literally or figuratively}
[from G2346]
KJV: afflicted(-tion), anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble

Hope this helps....
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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True. He is the restrainer.


The restrainer is taken out of the way and the man of sin is revealed.



No. Taking the "mark" will be a voluntary action.

God Bless!
Yes. Taking the mark can only occurr AFTER the man of sin is revealed. Chistians are exempt as they have been caught up before then.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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I do not know if it was created by a sick and deranged woman but without her some people would still believe it.

False doctrines are going to happen sooner or later so it does not matter who started it first for without that person someone would of believed it that way anyway.

For if the person that started it thought that way then without that person some other people are going to think that way.

And it can be kind of easy to believe in pre-tribulation resurrection without the help of someone if someone does not have enough information or perhaps persuaded by someone else.

Or are you saying that people that believe in a pre-tribulation resurrection are sick and deranged like she would be but say it in a way that makes it appear as if that is not what your are saying, lol.

But that is a good tactic to tell you the truth to say something against someone and disguise it, and I might use it, or maybe not for I gave it away, but I can always not post this part of the post, but I am too lazy to do that so no having fun for me.

The person that started the doctrine of there is no millennial reign of Christ on earth is a no good, no intelligent, good for nothing, cannot comprehend the truth, a drain on the economy, and a burden to the Church.

But hey, no offense to all the rest of the people that believe it.

But I am only playing around massorite.

I do not believe in a pre-tribulation resurrection, but I heard it was started by an ill and crazy man.
She was a postrib adherent and believed the church needed to go through the gt for cleansing.
Her vision was pretrib,but inspite of it and bible evidence she had that erroneous postrib belief.

I have never seen a postrib rapture verse in 40 years of study.
Maybe you know of one?
Well that is the real issue. Everyone wants to see everything spelled out like a textbook.

But that is not how the Bible is structured. If you wish to discover a pre-tribulation Resurrection/Rapture, you have to bring it all together from what is written throughout the Bible. You could start in Genesis 5.
Jesus framed the rapture pretrib
"Before the flood..."
Lot
"One taken,one left"
The 10 virgins
"....because you have kept my word,I will keep you from the time of testing"
"But pray that you will be counted WORTHY to escape the things about to come upon the world"

Pretrib rapture verses big time.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
5,553
1,418
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Hi again!


G2372 θυμός thumos (thï-mos') n.
passion (as if breathing hard).
[from G2380]
KJV: fierceness, indignation, wrath
Root(s): G2380




G2347 θλίψις thlipsis (thliy'-psis) n.
pressure.
{literally or figuratively}
[from G2346]
KJV: afflicted(-tion), anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble

Hope this helps....
Yes
A better question or dynamic would be "can God only exhibit wrath/tribulation....can the devil only exhibit wrath/tribulation "
Or
"Is wrath void of tribulation...or is tribulation void of wrath"

There is such a vast overlapping it is shaky to base a position on such vague dynamics.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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There it is right in front of his face but he will never believe it because he is self blinded to the truth. Isn't that what God says??? I shall send them great delusion???
Lol
We Do have verses
You post trib DO NOT.
The words of Jesus SPECIFICALLY..IRREFUTABLY place the rapture pretrib

Plus rev 14 DESTROYS your deal.
If the dead ,as you say, rise after the gt then YOU place that resurrection AFTER the living gathered in rev 14.
So either 1 thes 4 is false,or rev 14 has Jesus as confused.

Pretrib rapture is easy to defend

We have verses
You have none
In fact you guys in desperation attempt sloppily to combine the 2 clearly separate events of the rapture and second coming.

IOW you guys are in a doctrinal position that the very words of Jesus are Directly against you.
How bizarre to position yourself in opposition to Christ Himself