The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
13,315
1,261
113
Well...

Please answer this. I am assuming you are part of a tongues-speaking church.

Do the participants speak in tongues, one at a time, and does someone provide an interpretation for their speaking?

Or, do the tongues-speakers all babble at the same time, with no interpretation?

Which view does the Bible teach, and if they practice the latter, why are they being disobedient to Scripture?

In answering this question, I will assume that your view of tongues is correct.

Are you practicing it BIBLICALLY?

My understanding is almost no Pentecostal church follows these guidelines.

Do they speak one at a time, and does someone provide an interpretation for them?
Pentecostal churches seek after what is called signs and wonder gospel providing their own wonderment by the work they perform of self edifying.

No such thing as a "sign gift" as that in which the eyes see. Spiritual gifts unseen, yes. No carnal flesh and blood gifts rather than walking by faith the unseen eternal .

Pentecostal churches simply ignore the law of signs as wonders . Believers believe prophecy as tongues. They look to the foundation of the teaching found in the old testament .Identified by a sign of falling backward slain in the spirit .A metaphor used throughout the bible to indicate the spirit of judgement, the letter of the law .

God who is not a man as us is not served by corrupted human hands in any way shape or form.

The Holy Spirit who does the teaching by giving us the interpretation of the words he brings into our minds . Believers plants the incorruptible word of God as the seed .God causes the growth or understanding. We are to call no man on earth teacher .One is our Holy Father in heaven
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
2,040
868
113
Isa 26:20

Come, my people, enter your chambers,
and shut your doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until the fury has passed by.
For behold, the Lord is coming out from his place
to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity,
and the earth will disclose the blood shed on it,
and will no more cover its slain.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
2,040
868
113
Resoundingly clear?! where does it say someone will sign a peace treaty in Jerusalem?

These things had their starting point in the 1st century. The man of sin who is also satan or antichrist, already came and has been and will be throughout the entire church period. Basically, it is about the end times and the only thing that was holding the man of lawlessness was the apostles when they preached. Jesus said as soon as the gospel was preached to all nations, then the end will come.

2 Thess 2: 3Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. 4He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Q. Where is the temple of God located? If you are able to answer this question, then you'll know how the man of sin is revealed.
Isa 26:20

Come, my people, enter your chambers,
and shut your doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until the fury has passed by.
For behold, the Lord is coming out from his place
to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity,
and the earth will disclose the blood shed on it,
and will no more cover its slain.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,285
422
83
I do not know if it was created by a sick and deranged woman but without her some people would still believe it.

False doctrines are going to happen sooner or later so it does not matter who started it first for without that person someone would of believed it that way anyway.

For if the person that started it thought that way then without that person some other people are going to think that way.

And it can be kind of easy to believe in pre-tribulation resurrection without the help of someone if someone does not have enough information or perhaps persuaded by someone else.

Or are you saying that people that believe in a pre-tribulation resurrection are sick and deranged like she would be but say it in a way that makes it appear as if that is not what your are saying, lol.

But that is a good tactic to tell you the truth to say something against someone and disguise it, and I might use it, or maybe not for I gave it away, but I can always not post this part of the post, but I am too lazy to do that so no having fun for me.

The person that started the doctrine of there is no millennial reign of Christ on earth is a no good, no intelligent, good for nothing, cannot comprehend the truth, a drain on the economy, and a burden to the Church.

But hey, no offense to all the rest of the people that believe it.

But I am only playing around massorite.

I do not believe in a pre-tribulation resurrection, but I heard it was started by an ill and crazy man.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
2,040
868
113
I do not know if it was created by a sick and deranged woman but without her some people would still believe it.

False doctrines are going to happen sooner or later so it does not matter who started it first for without that person someone would of believed it that way anyway.

For if the person that started it thought that way then without that person some other people are going to think that way.

And it can be kind of easy to believe in pre-tribulation resurrection without the help of someone if someone does not have enough information or perhaps persuaded by someone else.

Or are you saying that people that believe in a pre-tribulation resurrection are sick and deranged like she would be but say it in a way that makes it appear as if that is not what your are saying, lol.

But that is a good tactic to tell you the truth to say something against someone and disguise it, and I might use it, or maybe not for I gave it away, but I can always not post this part of the post, but I am too lazy to do that so no having fun for me.

The person that started the doctrine of there is no millennial reign of Christ on earth is a no good, no intelligent, good for nothing, cannot comprehend the truth, a drain on the economy, and a burden to the Church.

But hey, no offense to all the rest of the people that believe it.

But I am only playing around massorite.

I do not believe in a pre-tribulation resurrection, but I heard it was started by an ill and crazy man.
Paul is ill and crazy? Not a chance.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,738
689
113
I do not know if it was created by a sick and deranged woman but without her some people would still believe it.

False doctrines are going to happen sooner or later so it does not matter who started it first for without that person someone would of believed it that way anyway.

For if the person that started it thought that way then without that person some other people are going to think that way.

And it can be kind of easy to believe in pre-tribulation resurrection without the help of someone if someone does not have enough information or perhaps persuaded by someone else.

Or are you saying that people that believe in a pre-tribulation resurrection are sick and deranged like she would be but say it in a way that makes it appear as if that is not what your are saying, lol.

But that is a good tactic to tell you the truth to say something against someone and disguise it, and I might use it, or maybe not for I gave it away, but I can always not post this part of the post, but I am too lazy to do that so no having fun for me.

The person that started the doctrine of there is no millennial reign of Christ on earth is a no good, no intelligent, good for nothing, cannot comprehend the truth, a drain on the economy, and a burden to the Church.

But hey, no offense to all the rest of the people that believe it.

But I am only playing around massorite.

I do not believe in a pre-tribulation resurrection, but I heard it was started by an ill and crazy man.
People that believe Pretrib usualy because afraid to face reality, don't want cari a cross of persecution

Or they can tell the different between tribulation and wrath of God.

Some believe God Will always protect us from any trouble

They think tribulation is wrath of God.

I ask them Why God not protect Stephen when people stone him to death?

Usualy their answer is not every body must die as a martyr.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,582
4,063
113
I do not believe in a pre-tribulation resurrection, but I heard it was started by an ill and crazy man.
Don't believe everything you hear. But go to John 14:1-3 and believe what Jesus (the Way, the Truth, and the Life) had to say about a pre-tribulation Rapture. The Resurrection was not mentioned there, but in 1 Corinthians 15 (and many other passages).
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,031
1,317
113
Paul is ill and crazy? Not a chance.
That's exactly what I was saying under my breath and then I saw that your post said the same thing. (y)

As I'm sure you already know, one of the main reasons that people claim that that the Lord is going to put His church through His wrath and then gather her afterwards, is because they don't understand the underlying principle of what Christ did and what the individual becomes once they believe. They also don't understand the purpose or severity of God's coming wrath, else they would not believe and claim that the church will be going through that time period. They completely ignore the fact that the word "Church" is used 19 times throughout chapters 1 thru 3 in Revelation and then the word is never used again until Rev.22:16 which is outside of the narrative of God's wrath. They don't understand the significance of that.

Just as you and other, I do not need to rely on MacDonald or anyone else to understand that the Lord is going to gather His church prior to His wrath, because he already experienced it for every believer. When we believed, we were credited with the righteousness of Christ and reconciled to God. And God is still going to send us through His wrath which will be a time of great tribulation such as the world has not seen from the beginning of the world, till now and never to be equaled again? So much so that if that time period was allowed to go on longer, no one on the earth would be left alive?

Believers have been seated in heavenly places with Christ, i.e. there is a place reserved for us in heaven. God is not going to pour out His wrath upon those who have already believed in His Son. They think that going through it is some honorable thing, when it is not. It is an honorable thing to be watching and ready when the Lord appears to gather us before His wrath begins. Wrath is for those who are disobedient to the good news and are willfully living according to the sinful nature.

If only they could see and understand these truths.
 
Nov 17, 2017
88
59
18
At the end of 1 Thessalonians, Paul says this:

1Thess 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

.....Yet, we get wild grapes....

God Bless...
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
4,066
942
113
I do not know if it was created by a sick and deranged woman but without her some people would still believe it.

False doctrines are going to happen sooner or later so it does not matter who started it first for without that person someone would of believed it that way anyway.

For if the person that started it thought that way then without that person some other people are going to think that way.

And it can be kind of easy to believe in pre-tribulation resurrection without the help of someone if someone does not have enough information or perhaps persuaded by someone else.

Or are you saying that people that believe in a pre-tribulation resurrection are sick and deranged like she would be but say it in a way that makes it appear as if that is not what your are saying, lol.

But that is a good tactic to tell you the truth to say something against someone and disguise it, and I might use it, or maybe not for I gave it away, but I can always not post this part of the post, but I am too lazy to do that so no having fun for me.

The person that started the doctrine of there is no millennial reign of Christ on earth is a no good, no intelligent, good for nothing, cannot comprehend the truth, a drain on the economy, and a burden to the Church.

But hey, no offense to all the rest of the people that believe it.

But I am only playing around massorite.

I do not believe in a pre-tribulation resurrection, but I heard it was started by an ill and crazy man.
She was a postrib adherent and believed the church needed to go through the gt for cleansing.
Her vision was pretrib,but inspite of it and bible evidence she had that erroneous postrib belief.

I have never seen a postrib rapture verse in 40 years of study.
Maybe you know of one?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,738
689
113
She was a postrib adherent and believed the church needed to go through the gt for cleansing.
Her vision was pretrib,but inspite of it and bible evidence she had that erroneous postrib belief.

I have never seen a postrib rapture verse in 40 years of study.
Maybe you know of one?
2 Thessalonians 2:3
“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”

And I never see a verse that say pretrib
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,031
1,317
113
At the end of 1 Thessalonians, Paul says this:

1Thess 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

.....Yet, we get wild grapes....

God Bless...
Exactly! It's like they have Paul saying, " The good news is, the Lord himself is going descend from heaven and the dead in Christ shall rise first. And then those who are still alive will be changed and caught up. Isn't that great? The bad news is, you still have to go through God's wrath. Therefore comfort each other with these words. They think that suffering the current trials and tribulations that we have because of our faith in Christ as being the same as suffering God's coming unprecedented wrath, which are two separate things.

If that were true, I could see Jesus turning to the Father and saying, "But Father, I already suffered your wrath on their behalf. Why are they going through it too?"

Paul also called our being gathered "the blessed hope." It would be no blessed hope if we were still going to go through God's wrath. what difference would there be between the righteous and the wicked then, if both went through the same wrath?

We can rest assured however, that believers will not go through that time of wrath. For scripture states that when they say peace and safety, then sudden destruction will come upon them like a woman in birth pains and they will not escape. But you brothers are not in darkness so that this day (the Day of the Lord) should take you by surprise! I don't even have to finish the rest of the verse because "But you brothers" infers the opposite of not escaping. How will we escape? Exactly the way that Paul just previously described in I Thess 4:13-18. The dead in Christ will rise first, then we which remain and are still alive will be changed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,738
689
113
At the end of 1 Thessalonians, Paul says this:

1Thess 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

.....Yet, we get wild grapes....

God Bless...
1 Thessalonians 4
King James Version
4 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.

2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;

11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;

12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

If we read verse 15 It is talking the coming of the Lord


..... unto the coming of the Lord ....

Than verse 17 talking about rapture.

So rapture happen in the coming of the Lordor second coming.
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
288
58
28
2 Thessalonians 2:3
“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”

And I never see a verse that say pretrib
There it is right in front of his face but he will never believe it because he is self blinded to the truth. Isn't that what God says??? I shall send them great delusion???
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,582
4,063
113
And I never see a verse that say pretrib
Well that is the real issue. Everyone wants to see everything spelled out like a textbook.

But that is not how the Bible is structured. If you wish to discover a pre-tribulation Resurrection/Rapture, you have to bring it all together from what is written throughout the Bible. You could start in Genesis 5.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,738
689
113
Well that is the real issue. Everyone wants to see everything spelled out like a textbook.

But that is not how the Bible is structured. If you wish to discover a pre-tribulation Resurrection/Rapture, you have to bring it all together from what is written throughout the Bible. You could start in Genesis 5.
If you willing to explain, I Will be Happy to read it
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
2,040
868
113
If you willing to explain, I Will be Happy to read it
Lets hear your story. Prove preterism or amillenialism or a post-trib rapture. Good luck.
 
Nov 17, 2017
88
59
18
Hi There!
2 Thessalonians 2:3
“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”

And I never see a verse that say pretrib
2Thess 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Thess 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The restrainer is Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is in the people of God which is referred to as His Church body, He is the Head of the Church body.
When The LORD calls for His Church the Holy Spirit goes with the Christians, hence "taken out of the way",
then the man of perdition will be revealed.

1Thess 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

"The Tribulation" is Yahweh Elohim pouring out His wrath on mankind. Those who are His are not subject to His wrath, he chastens His

Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

God Bless.....
 
Nov 17, 2017
88
59
18
Hi There again!
If we read verse 15 It is talking the coming of the Lord
..... unto the coming of the Lord ....

Than verse 17 talking about rapture.

So rapture happen in the coming of the Lordor second coming.
These Christians some dead some alive, are called up, caught up, harpazo (spelling) to The LORD.
The 2nd Coming is The LORD on Earth, "treading the wine-press"

There are many raptures "in type" all throughout scripture,
Ex. Lot and his family.

God Bless..