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I am convinced in my mind that anything eternal life hinges on is plainly written in scripture
If Peter, James, John or Paul believed eternal life hinged on the partaking of communion, they would plainly have told us that. Paul reitterates Christ's words, we partake of the bread and wine in remebrence of what Christ did for us at Calvary.
As I say, in John 6 Christ is definately telling us what eternal life hinges on. I just ask for one verse of scripture that states eternal life hinges on partaking of communion, then I will believe you
If Peter, James, John or Paul believed eternal life hinged on the partaking of communion, they would plainly have told us that. Paul reitterates Christ's words, we partake of the bread and wine in remebrence of what Christ did for us at Calvary.
As I say, in John 6 Christ is definately telling us what eternal life hinges on. I just ask for one verse of scripture that states eternal life hinges on partaking of communion, then I will believe you
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ok, what do you think Christ was talking about in John 6 when He spoke about eating His flesh and drinking His Blood? And please answer my question about the church fathers. I get the feeling that you bring up these little points just for the sake of arguing, but i'll play a little longer. Because if you cant see the connection between John 6 and the Eucharist, then this discussion is over. Oh, hang on, are you a believer in sola-scriptura?
I'd like you to answer my question please. Can you give me one verse of scripture that states eternal life hinges on partaking of communion
Yes or no.
Concerning the church Fathers. I have never felt compelled to read up on them, though for the sake of debate did once read a bit of Tertullian, who fell out with the church I believe
I repeat, anything eternal life hinges on is plainly written in scripture
If in your next response to me you do not quote a scripture saying eternal life hinges on a person partaking of communion, I will take that as confirmation you know there is not one
Yes or no.
Concerning the church Fathers. I have never felt compelled to read up on them, though for the sake of debate did once read a bit of Tertullian, who fell out with the church I believe
I repeat, anything eternal life hinges on is plainly written in scripture
If in your next response to me you do not quote a scripture saying eternal life hinges on a person partaking of communion, I will take that as confirmation you know there is not one
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But there is. It is in John 6. And tradition is extremely important in the church, which is where we get the connection from through John 6 and our Early church fathers, who were there not long at all after Christ; St. Ignatius of Antioch (110 AD),
St. Justin Martyr (155 AD), St Irenaeus of Lyons (180 AD). But Mark, see, sola scriptura doesn't make sense, and here's why. A christian who believes that the Bible is the sole rule of faith believes that all questions relating to faith and morals can be answered completely from the written word of God as contained in all the books from Genisis to Revelation. That being the case, there is no need for any other rule to guide the christian, whether it be tradition, a teaching authority, philosophy, or nature. These inhibit a Christian's path to salvation.
However! A bible only approach, when applied logically, runs into immediate and numerous problems. For example, can a Bible held in the hand of any Christian answer the following questions: "How do I know that my bible was correctly translated?;" " Does my bible have the correct number of books in both the old and the new testament?;" "Is the interpretation of this or that verse the correct one?;" Ordinary Christians lacking an extensive knowledge of the languages, cultures and history of the Holy Land and its surrounds would be hard pressed to answer with certainty any of these questions, with or without a Bible!
Does the Bible teach that it is the sole rule of faith, Mark?
St. Justin Martyr (155 AD), St Irenaeus of Lyons (180 AD). But Mark, see, sola scriptura doesn't make sense, and here's why. A christian who believes that the Bible is the sole rule of faith believes that all questions relating to faith and morals can be answered completely from the written word of God as contained in all the books from Genisis to Revelation. That being the case, there is no need for any other rule to guide the christian, whether it be tradition, a teaching authority, philosophy, or nature. These inhibit a Christian's path to salvation.
However! A bible only approach, when applied logically, runs into immediate and numerous problems. For example, can a Bible held in the hand of any Christian answer the following questions: "How do I know that my bible was correctly translated?;" " Does my bible have the correct number of books in both the old and the new testament?;" "Is the interpretation of this or that verse the correct one?;" Ordinary Christians lacking an extensive knowledge of the languages, cultures and history of the Holy Land and its surrounds would be hard pressed to answer with certainty any of these questions, with or without a Bible!
Does the Bible teach that it is the sole rule of faith, Mark?
25 years ago I had a friend who was catholic. He would go the pub whenever he had the money and get the worse for wear. He gambled whenever he could, swore and watched pornographic films, but he was always most serious about going to Mass, that was vital to him, for his salvation depended on it
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??? I dont understand what you're getting at. Are you trying to imply that the Catholic Church teaches him to do these things? Or are you trying to say that everybody from your particular Church is perfect? What relevence has that comment got to what we're talking about? lol You really lost me on this one Mark!
Sorry, I thought the truth of what I wrote was clear
That man believed the act of communion meant he was saved. By partaking of The Eucharist he was saved/a Christian
In the real world this is the inevitable result of hinging Christianity on rite, ritual and ceremony.
And I am not saying this only happens in the catholic church BTW
Rite ritual and ceremony will save no one, it is in the heart we are justified. For our hearts are purified by faith(your first pope)
That man believed the act of communion meant he was saved. By partaking of The Eucharist he was saved/a Christian
In the real world this is the inevitable result of hinging Christianity on rite, ritual and ceremony.
And I am not saying this only happens in the catholic church BTW
Rite ritual and ceremony will save no one, it is in the heart we are justified. For our hearts are purified by faith(your first pope)
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??? I dont understand what you're getting at. Are you trying to imply that the Catholic Church teaches him to do these things? Or are you trying to say that everybody from your particular Church is perfect? What relevence has that comment got to what we're talking about? lol You really lost me on this one Mark!
When I got out of prison, I worked with this guy who was a preacher at a new Church called the Hosanna Church (a branch off Baptist). This guy was a preacher. When he used to get in the truck with me, he would be talking about Christ and perving at women at the same time, saying stupid things about them, to which i would just ignore him. He also drinks beer like its going out of fashion, getting drunk every day after work. And the language that comes out of his mouth is dirtier than those American rappers. This guy was a Preacher in that Church! I still go and sing worship songs with them sometimes on a Sunday because i love the way they praise God. But tell me, Mark, does that mean that the Church that he preaches at approves of all these filthy things he does?
When I got out of prison, I worked with this guy who was a preacher at a new Church called the Hosanna Church (a branch off Baptist). This guy was a preacher. When he used to get in the truck with me, he would be talking about Christ and perving at women at the same time, saying stupid things about them, to which i would just ignore him. He also drinks beer like its going out of fashion, getting drunk every day after work. And the language that comes out of his mouth is dirtier than those American rappers. This guy was a Preacher in that Church! I still go and sing worship songs with them sometimes on a Sunday because i love the way they praise God. But tell me, Mark, does that mean that the Church that he preaches at approves of all these filthy things he does?
I know nothing of that mans church, I hope not. But my friend of years ago believed he was saved because he partook of the Eucharist each week, he believed his Christianity hinged on that, despite the fact he gambled, got drunk, swore and watched poronographic films
I repeat, in the real world if you tell people Christianity hinges on rite ritual and ceremony people will use that as an excuse never to come close to God or give him from the heart what he requires
Rite ritual and ceremony will save no one, for it is by faith the heart is purified(your first pope)
I repeat, in the real world if you tell people Christianity hinges on rite ritual and ceremony people will use that as an excuse never to come close to God or give him from the heart what he requires
Rite ritual and ceremony will save no one, for it is by faith the heart is purified(your first pope)
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Mark you're wrong to blame the ways of the Catholic Church for that man's actions. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Churches Ceremonies, and EVERYTHING to do with his ignorance! He couldn't have possibly believed in his heart, as a Christian, that he could do all those things and still be saved. If he did, I assure you, Mark, he didn't hear it in Mass, or from any Catholic connection. Just ignorance.
You are not gettingt the point
BTW
Why tell me I have not answered tyour questions
You have yet to answer mine
Do you know of a verse of scripture that states eternal life hinges on the partaking of communion
Please do not refer to John 6, for communion/the Lords supper is not mentioned in that chapter
BTW
Why tell me I have not answered tyour questions
You have yet to answer mine
Do you know of a verse of scripture that states eternal life hinges on the partaking of communion
Please do not refer to John 6, for communion/the Lords supper is not mentioned in that chapter
2 Tim 3:14-17: "But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work"