The falling away
- Thread starter just-me
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Yep, they surely have. He said things like...
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
And they teach the Law is done away.
He said...
Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
And they teach the Law has passed away.
He said...
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Adn they teach you don't have to keep those old "Jewish" Commandments.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
And they teach the Law is done away.
He said...
Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
And they teach the Law has passed away.
He said...
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Adn they teach you don't have to keep those old "Jewish" Commandments.
E
well your first 4 are taught in scripture.
the enmity (the law) was removed, so man could be restored to god. and made on with him.
your last point is lost. because no one (or very few) teach this. No one says we should go out and sin, because the laws are no longer at anmity between us. As paul said, ALL things are lawfull. But not all things are profitable. Someone who wants to go out and sin will suffer the consequences.. It will not profit them one iota.
The disagreements that seem to be escalating now can clearly help us to see a "falling away" from the truth if we search for the truth to expose the deception. Read the comments that are somewhat adversarial against what I have presented, and search the scriptures as the Bereans did so you can see the truth by all the Word instead of part of the Word.
By the way, the Bereans (both Jews and Gentiles who lived in Greece) had the writings of Moses and the Prophets (from the Jewish synagogue) to compare the teachings of Paul with, for the records of the New Testament, as we know it today, had not been published yet. All they had was what we know as the Old Testament scripts. I’ll post the scripture from Acts so you don’t have to look it up.
Acts 17:10-12 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
The Gentiles, in most if not all, the places Paul ministered to, had nothing but Paul’s letters and the writings of Moses and the Prophets. If Jesus would have done away with the law and Phrophets, Paul would have had nothing in writing to prove the truth. Good thing Jesus said Matthew 5:17-19 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
By the way, the Bereans (both Jews and Gentiles who lived in Greece) had the writings of Moses and the Prophets (from the Jewish synagogue) to compare the teachings of Paul with, for the records of the New Testament, as we know it today, had not been published yet. All they had was what we know as the Old Testament scripts. I’ll post the scripture from Acts so you don’t have to look it up.
Acts 17:10-12 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
The Gentiles, in most if not all, the places Paul ministered to, had nothing but Paul’s letters and the writings of Moses and the Prophets. If Jesus would have done away with the law and Phrophets, Paul would have had nothing in writing to prove the truth. Good thing Jesus said Matthew 5:17-19 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
E
The problem is. People have been teaching licentiousness even in Pauls day. And people have been teaching adding the law to the gospel since Pauls day.
the falling away would not be any of these, Since they have been taught since the beginning.
The falling away is things like we are seeing today. Churches which are mixing, and saying ALL religions are ok. Like Christian science or other churches. Things like saying There was not flood. And denying creation, while enabling evolution etc..
It is not things which have been done since the beginning.
the falling away would not be any of these, Since they have been taught since the beginning.
The falling away is things like we are seeing today. Churches which are mixing, and saying ALL religions are ok. Like Christian science or other churches. Things like saying There was not flood. And denying creation, while enabling evolution etc..
It is not things which have been done since the beginning.
Can you imagine a more spiritually dangerous position to be in? To have a reputation of being alive--written up in denominational newspapers as a model church--and yet, in the eyes of the Lord, to be dead! To think that all is well when in fact, according to Jesus, all is rotten!
The mere possibility of falling into this kind of deadly trap ought to be enough to breed extreme humility in the most experienced believer and most accomplished church. It ought to call us to radical commitment to measuring our lives by what the Scripture calls us to be and do and by nothing else.
Our prayer should be that of David's in Psalms 139:23-24,
Search me, O God, and know my heart;
Try me, and know my anxieties;
And see if there is any wicked way in me,
And lead me in the way everlasting.
Finally, the ever-present danger of self-deception should keep us running to Jesus Christ as the great Shepherd of our souls. We desperately need Him to secure our standing and our walk. We need His protection and provision at every step of our journey. Our only hope and our certain supply is His righteousness and His sacrifice which is ours through faith and faith alone.
The mere possibility of falling into this kind of deadly trap ought to be enough to breed extreme humility in the most experienced believer and most accomplished church. It ought to call us to radical commitment to measuring our lives by what the Scripture calls us to be and do and by nothing else.
Our prayer should be that of David's in Psalms 139:23-24,
Search me, O God, and know my heart;
Try me, and know my anxieties;
And see if there is any wicked way in me,
And lead me in the way everlasting.
Finally, the ever-present danger of self-deception should keep us running to Jesus Christ as the great Shepherd of our souls. We desperately need Him to secure our standing and our walk. We need His protection and provision at every step of our journey. Our only hope and our certain supply is His righteousness and His sacrifice which is ours through faith and faith alone.
Last edited:
This is Old Testament
Habakkuk 2:2-4 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Habakkuk 2:2-4 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
What just me wrote is:
So please how is that confusing, and how did you come to Christ?
To not have come to Christ by the Law that no flesh can perform perfectly, how will one not appreciate tis amazing salvation from God?
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Or how would we know, not to use this being 100% forgiven by God through the cross as an occasion as an excuse for the flesh to continue in sin?
Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
So please how is that confusing, and how did you come to Christ?
To not have come to Christ by the Law that no flesh can perform perfectly, how will one not appreciate tis amazing salvation from God?
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Or how would we know, not to use this being 100% forgiven by God through the cross as an occasion as an excuse for the flesh to continue in sin?
Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
And to whom are you saying and judging this to? Are you sure in what are saying about others, when God has received them as God has received you?
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
I like it and do see what it says:
putting further scripture to prove what you say as truth about the Law not being weak; it is in the flesh lower nature that is weak:
[h=3]Romans 7:18-25[/h]Living Bible (TLB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I know I am rotten through and through so far as my old sinful nature is concerned. No matter which way I turn I can’t make myself do right. I want to but I can’t. [SUP]19 [/SUP]When I want to do good, I don’t; and when I try not to do wrong, I do it anyway. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I am doing what I don’t want to, it is plain where the trouble is: sin still has me in its evil grasp.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]It seems to be a fact of life that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. [SUP]22 [/SUP]I love to do God’s will so far as my new nature is concerned; [SUP]23-25 [/SUP]but there is something else deep within me, in my lower nature, that is at war with my mind and wins the fight and makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. In my mind I want to be God’s willing servant, but instead I find myself still enslaved to sin.
So you see how it is: my new life tells me to do right, but the old nature that is still inside me loves to sin. Oh, what a terrible predicament I’m in! Who will free me from my slavery to this deadly lower nature? Thank God! It has been done by Jesus Christ our Lord. He has set me free.
Thank you to all who are listening to what the Spirit of God is trying to say to us:
Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
putting further scripture to prove what you say as truth about the Law not being weak; it is in the flesh lower nature that is weak:
[h=3]Romans 7:18-25[/h]Living Bible (TLB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I know I am rotten through and through so far as my old sinful nature is concerned. No matter which way I turn I can’t make myself do right. I want to but I can’t. [SUP]19 [/SUP]When I want to do good, I don’t; and when I try not to do wrong, I do it anyway. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I am doing what I don’t want to, it is plain where the trouble is: sin still has me in its evil grasp.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]It seems to be a fact of life that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. [SUP]22 [/SUP]I love to do God’s will so far as my new nature is concerned; [SUP]23-25 [/SUP]but there is something else deep within me, in my lower nature, that is at war with my mind and wins the fight and makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. In my mind I want to be God’s willing servant, but instead I find myself still enslaved to sin.
So you see how it is: my new life tells me to do right, but the old nature that is still inside me loves to sin. Oh, what a terrible predicament I’m in! Who will free me from my slavery to this deadly lower nature? Thank God! It has been done by Jesus Christ our Lord. He has set me free.
Thank you to all who are listening to what the Spirit of God is trying to say to us:
Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
All scripture, not just some of scripture.
I really like people like you who love all of God's Word. It is so uplifting.
Matthew 4:3-4 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
During that time of temptation, have you ever wondered who was there to record those events? I suppose Jesus told His disciples what the deal was.
I really like people like you who love all of God's Word. It is so uplifting.Matthew 4:3-4 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
During that time of temptation, have you ever wondered who was there to record those events? I suppose Jesus told His disciples what the deal was.
[h=3]John 16:7-15[/h]King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Of sin, because they believe not on me;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
and the same to this day, God comes to live in us when we decide to believe God, Eph. 1:13, And through belief God shows us God's finished work through his Son and we are from God made as one with God, being led by the Spirit of God, no more work on our part to be done. And this is completed through the Son Jesus Christ, Father giving us new life in Spirit at the resurrected Christ
Thanks just-me