convince me of what? that the Lord i serve will not help me? -- Who said that the Lord will not HELP you?
that if i abide in Him and His words abide in me that i wont have fruit? -- So we all better start producing fruit or be like the unproductive servant who take what he had taken away from him and thrown in out darkness (give over to the tormentors).dont think you understand the tormenters, but anyway...we cant produce fruit...we only bear it. Does a branch produce or carry fruit? Even to say bear, it means to carry fruit.....so we carry our fruit with us and must show the Harvester our fruits. Are have we yet fogotten how the unfruitful tree is cut down and burnt?I honestly dont think you understand the burning part. A branch is nothing but dead wood...it cant produce anything..the fruit comes from the vine all it does is abide on the vine. No we dont do this to show the Husbandman the fruit is for others we become fruitful to the church and world...the husbandman prunes us to get max yield. A branch is a dead wood....how does it produce if it is not alive as the trunk? Does not the branch because it is attached to the trunk bring forth fruit, or does the trunk without the branches bring forth fruit? No, we prune each other as it is said of Paul and Apollos. One seeds, one waters, yet another prunes. But the Harvester is God. If Paul spoke of himself as the one who seeds and another who waters, then is it not us who produced the wheat for God's farm barn through the leading of the Spirit? Who is said to be rewarded for their toils in Christ? Did not Paul said we would be rewarded accordingly?
Or that if im faithful..i still should worry? -- if you produice fruit than no. But if not then yeslike i said you dont understand you CANT rpoduce fruit...just wood hay and stubble. But yet, you say, I think you do, that we produce fruit of righteousness with the Spirit. Either way, bear or produce, we will have been rewarded on our fruits. So, how then is rewarded? The Spirit who leads to good works or the one who hearkened to Him and produced those fruits. Would it not be illogical to say that God will reward Himself for the work He did through you*? Your mixing different parables please dont...you not quite understanding them. The answer is no...God needs nothing the fruit is for service, others eat it....in it we Glorify the Lord...like i said we CANT produce fruit...just wood hay and stubble. The fruit of righteousness is another thought altogether yet it works the same....abiding on the vine...i dont think about doing this, fruits of the Spirit are not fruits of my labor but fruits of Him.....Now if you want to talk about labor as in duties like study, prayer, ect...then we should change topics for that. We have been through this already. They are both speaking of the same end result: the unproductive servant. I understand it completely, I accept all of Scripture whether i like what is said or not. My truth is nothing, His Truth is everything. The subject, whether I talk about this or talk about that, does remain the same: we are to follow Him, His Spirit, and if we do not then how can one be productive. If one is following the Spirit, then nothing I say is towards them, but if one speaks as though they can enter thier rest and yet discredit God's own Spirit, then they have another thing coming. How can i stay on subject when we have about 5-10 different subjects being spoken about just in this one post.
Is He Lord? Didnt He make promises? --- Did not God make promises to the Hebrews and some did not hearken to His Voice and thus did not receive His promises. Simple faith, if you become disobedient, rest in the assurance that God will remain faithful.Of coarse they were disobedient...they didnt believe. you know that.If they had they would have been obedient.. Do we not know that almost all who came out of Egypt were disobedient and they learned obedeince by the things they suffered, in much the same way our Lord learned His: by hearkening to Him?Of coarse and so do we learn by suffering Rom5 1peter1 along with discipline from the Father. I see no argument here then, if we both see that one must be willing to be obedient (willing to accept discipline) from His Spirit. What you see me saying as obedient you say as discipline. So, if I say that we must hearken to Him, what then if we do not? It is told us what we are considered if we do not accept His discipline.
Did He ask me to trust Him? Do you? YES! then no worries. If you do not trust Him in His leading you? Then what? As a broken record, yes I trust Him to lead me home and I trust that what He has said is True. Why not simply accept one can fall.Well i know people will fall, never said they couldnt..done it myself. But Guess whose arms i fell in when i did? And praise God you decided to repent and return to His open arms. But that still does not answer for those who decide a rebellious life is still better and remain under the Spirit's coniviction. Have we not heard that the Lord is longsuffering. It does not stay that He is eternally patient, but LONGsuffering?Do you think all the Lord does is convict? are you kidding? He has followed them through their life till they become reprobates. But you know what...if a person doesnt respond to grace and mercy....few will change out of fear...the fearful go into the lake of fire, they bury their gift thinking the Lord is mean and austere. And that wont save them...He wants our willingness. By no means, he convict those who walk in opposition to His leading. To those who are not, they walk in peace. Are you kidding, thinking that one can who choices to leave his walk and live in the flesh can still go to Heaven even through they live in rebeliion? Even though God said they will die in their sins? Every thing you said after 'but you know what...' is what I am saying. What words can I use so that that can be understood? I simply do not get it.
Cast all my cares on Him? Amen.
There are hundreds of verses people could have brought to your thread. -- and yet there are still thousands more which they ignore.I just think you have the wrong attitude (my attitute comes from you all. But then aagin, people do not like it when it is thrown back into thier own face. If I cannot teach patiently, then i will become as one of them so that by such, they will learn from one who speaks like them) and perspective...the ones youve contended with do not ignore any scripture they have been wonderful faithfull upright believers that didnt like your position and how you are dealing with scripture. Most of them have walked many many years with the Lord and have deep understanding of all the scripture you provided and seen your point and understand your sentament. Really? You mean all those scriptures which I presented was not contented with? So if they live a righteous and upright life and I tell others about the pitfalls on the racetrack, they do not like that I point to Jesus' Spirit as the way to walk that same path? But yet, if they remain faithful, they shall be led into salvation. I wasnt contending with the verses...just what you were blowing into them,if you wanted to teach folks HOW to stand and how to stay strong, renew their minds, show them the Lovelyness and beauty of the Lord...in His(as David always said) Lovingkindness and tendermercies...id be all withyou If you realy cared they hung around show them how beautiful the Lord is and give them something to be interested in. What has been blown into them? The one which says if you love me then keep my commandments? This is spoken in the active. Who keeps the commandments, Jesus? You? Surely it can be seen that 'you' is being spoken to here. So, if we do not keep His commandments, are we reaelly loving Him? What about the one which says to contend for the faith? Are we to iognore this as nothing but empty air? Come now, let us reason together? Contend, strive to enter, walk not as, keep, guard, test spirits, love, follow me, etc,.... are all in the active. how is it possible to renew their minds when every single verse given to them is disannuled in favor of that OSAS doctrine? as long as they deny Truth presented to them, it is impossible to have their minds renewed by the Spriit? Is not the Spirit the Spirit of Truth? If He is thought of as an it a thing of a loons mind, how can they be renewed? It is the spirit who shows people the lovingness and beauty of the Lord...but how can He if He is denied His place in their salvation? I will not deny the full administation of God's salvation plan to them, that would be misleading them. How can i show them God's love when they reject Him in His Spirit's adminstration. Until they learn to accept God in all His Forms, there can be no love spoken, seeing that deny God His place.
Only thing i see in what you teach is that ill fall away. -- yes there is that possbility, otherwise the God would not have said so.like i said i have, but thats not the end of the story. But what of the ones who believe no matter what one does, he cannot loose salvation? So it is wrong to tell them the words of God that if one who is righteous and leaves his righteousness to live an disobedient life will not have his righteousness remembered, but in the iniquity of his iniquity and the sinfulness of his sin, HE SHALL DIE? Are we to ingnore God over one verse of what Paul said, where is the agreement of Scripture of that?No we dont just agree with Paul as if they contradict...but there is a slight difference in --You set there and repeatly tell people you are not of the OSAS doctrine but here you include yourself to be of them. So you can no longer, out of being fair, deny that you are of the OSAS teaching Abide
administrations....also i never notice when you quote that ezekiel passage you reading the next few verses...where it talks about if the person repents. -- Yes, so if a person repents all is well. But if not? You said you repented and all is well with you. But if you did not repent?
Mighty important part of that script. Both new and old testament Gods Spirit worked on mans heart empowering him to repent. Just like He does to you and me. IF i didnt repent id say you were right id die...but can i not repent? thats another thread. -- No, it is not another thread, it has every thing to do with OSAS. If you desire not to repent, then has not God no choose but to leave you as you are. Neithe does this say that He will give up on you, but it is certain that in His wisdom there will come a time when He says enough. The Book of revelation tells us that there will come a time when He will say enough of trying to reach out to the lost, enough of the hypocrite. enough of the children of rebellion.
Im a new creation my nature is new, now when i fall
i hate it sin now is something i hate. He did this to me when He gave me a new spirit and a new heart. --- This still does not answer about one's freewill. If you can answer these questions with an open heart then maybe I will shut up about freewill.
Adam and Eve were in God's rest. They fellowshipped with Him and saw Him face to face. They disobeyed. The consequence of that freewill was that they were thrown out of that rest and was placed under work. Now, if one who is in fellowship with God choose to leave that by their action. why didn't God make them come back into that union? But instead, have they not abandoned their rightousness (the means by which they stood before God: by their obediene to His commands)? And what happened to them because of choosing disobedeince?
And what of Lucifer and the fallen angels, they were before God, yet He did not force them to come back but as they chose of their freewill, they faced the consequences of their actions.
So it is with us, who are faithful and in uniion with God spiritual for the moment, if we choose to abandon our righteousness: Jesus Christ, we are in the same codemnation: an everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord. So, who is right God who says the one who practice righteousness is righteous as He is rightous or a doctrine of man which says one actions, once they believe, have no bearing on their salvation. This sort of believe only concludes with the notion that we are free to do as we well please, inasmuch as the Universal Salvation opponents declare. Every religion has it rules and Christ set those rules out for us. If we do not comply with Him, dont be fooled, He is no Lord of yours, seeing that you cannot even obey Him in the flesh.
Or because
I trust Him more than me...even tho the word says a man who trusts in himself is a fool.
I shouldnt have hope. -- Hope is only given to those who trust. So, if one falls and remains there, does he still trust?Not according to my experience, i guess when He pulled me into His arms i could have jacked Him in the face...but it just didnt come into my mind.. It is when you repented and turned back towards Him as your light that He pulled you into His arm. God did not to offend us, we offened into in whatever rebellion we chose to leave Him in. So, who repent and who was still there to accept you in His arms?all our stories are different...i once went back into the world and just hated it and didnt belong...so when i decided to go back He was there before i repented...oh yes i repented but not because i was scared He was so all over me first i think my repentance was out of gratitude....another time i just drifted inside...not in sin...just alseep at the wheel...like ephesus in revelation...same thing He was on me while i was seconds before calling on Him....Hes always faithful...but not intrusive. I cant imagine how anyone can reject Him, to be truthful.....but in my younger years things were not that clear. Again, I am glad you repent, but it canot be said that all will repent. Yes again, God is there waiting for that person to repent, but in no way will He force His Lordship on that person as it was spoken about above.
Im not against anyone warning people with truth. Im not a grace only teacher. -- Hmmm
Youd like to think so. -- who then approves of yuour posts if not the ones you say you are not a part of? One is know by the flock they flock with.Oh im sure everyone here that opposed you have rebuked many folks as often as it was necessary..but maybe with words seasoned with grace and always with the intent to restore...unless it was time to bid them farewell till they repented. And surely they all believe in total obedience to bad you never thought to ask. Reread...what you say is not the point I am making. I do not have to ask, I read what you say. So perhaps???????????????????? Well i sure dont remember what you have read or whether you even understood it...would have to examine that one by one. Do you mean you read into what i say? As to asking people what they believe, I trust what they write to be what they believe. Now if they do not believe what they write, then that would be a different story of a wayward wave.
But then you may think since i have my trust in the Lord
its because im wallowing in sin. -- that would be between you and God.But I will say that God's Spirit is not to be denied His leading. I trust my Lord and I have salvation. You say you have trust in Him, and accordingly, you have salvation. But never forget, that the reward is at the end of the race, not in the middle where there is pitfalls.Im not forgetting the race isnt over. But the race isnt with
God on the sidelines waiting for me to fall so He can laugh and condemn me...He died for me..He wants to purify me. Do you know why job didnt pack it in? maybe not. OH but.......................He runs before us to show us the pitfalls and to give us directions to go around them......That is why He is called our faith's Forerunner. Hmm ive not given that much thought ive fallen in alot of pits but He was there too. -- Abiding , yes He is there and will allllllllllllwayyyys be there WHEN we come back to Him in true repentance. God know the intent of the heart and He will not be mocked forever. There will come a time when one is not producing nothing but briers and thorns and it is in His providence that He decides that there is no more hope for one who seek forgiveness only for the instant.
But thats not even logical although its been all over
these threads.
This is getting quit long, can we break it down some, i will leave it up to you if you want to and how you want to. But I reread the every paragraph every time and it is getting to be to much for me to respond in a clear head.
