The False Doctrine of OSAS

[eternally-gratefull]

then we can never know we have eternal life. for we can never know we are following God in a manor in which he will allow us in. -- My brother, we are given a lively (a living (a reality of the actuality of existence)) Hope which assures us of our salvation. We are given the evidence (testimony) of the Christ and of God. If He is the Light before us guiding us, then we are assured by Him of our everlasting destination. It is by following Him that we know we are being led in a manner in which He will allow us in His rest and our rest.

Amen. which is what I have been saying.

However. According to you we still cannot know. because we could chose to walk away, or fall away at any time. We are of all things the most pitiful of creatures. Thus under your gospel. my point remains. we can never know. because we can never know we will not fail. Just saying it does not make it so. I have known a many who like you believe the same and swore they would never fall away. Who at this time deny the very christ they spent years praising.

every one of us can look at other people who are more holy, more righteous, and doing more work than us. Every one of us can also look at others who are less of these same things. -- it is never about who is holier or more righteous or more active, it is only about being willing to be led by Him.

well scripture tells us who this is. If we have faith, we will be led. if we do not. we will not be led. it is that simple.

And yes it does matter in your gospel. One who rejects OSAS has to have a line set of who is good enough or who is not. It is relevant whether they want to face it as fact or not.

thus begs the question. Who gets in and who gets out. -- those who depend on God to be led home through their faith, seeing that faith alone is a means for salvation. But who can be led with a faith which is not active (a dead faith)(not saying yours is a dead faith, just pondering here)? A Faith which says, 'God, lead me to the promise land. I have faith in you to led me and will not doubt you as they did in the wilderness and fell.' This is what I am saying about obedience: trusting Him to show you the path to walk on so that you can get to the promised land as He did with the Hebrews. Trust Him in His leading you home.

This makes no sense whatsoever. If we have faith God will save us, then why would we lack faith in thinking God will do what he promised to do? and trust ourselves to work? if our faiht is based on our ability or inability to do whatever it is which would cause us to lose salvation, then we have a flawed faith, because outr faith is in self not God. can't you see the flaw there is saying we must work? how much work is work enough? if we can't know. we can't have faith.

Imagine being the person standing at the judgment seat of christ and finding out if he did just one more good deed, he would have made it. -- I am not saying that it is about doing goods deeds to earn salvation, salvation is obtained by faith alone, that we agree. All I am saying is that do we let it die or do we cultivate it?

God cultivates it. not us. that is where we differ. if you trsut God, he WILL do what needs done, if you trust self. your in deep trouble.

what Kind of god does this. this is why I reject a works based gospel based on my ability to do good. because God says I can KNOW I have eternal life. if my salvation is based on my works., I can never know I have anything. let alone have hope. because my hope is based on me, and not God. -- I agree with you. Salvation is not based on works but faith alone. But the one who did nothing with his faith is the same one who will be thrown out into outer darkness.

If he did nothing. did he have faith to begin with my friend? come on be honest here. This is what james is saying, if we claim we have faith, but did nothing with that faith, can that faith save us?

of course they will be thrown into outer darkness. BECAUSE THEY DID NOT HAVE FAITH.

And if our faith is active,

there is no if about it. faith is active, if it is not active, it is not faith. and we were never saved, because we are saved by faith. it is God working in us, not us working.

building upon Christ as our foundation,

Thats how christ builds his church and his people. and how Christ grows his children. but if we are not saved, not born again, not made alive in christ. our work will mean nothing.

salvation comes first. then work.. not the other way around.

then we rest assured that we are at least saved by that faith of ours and need only to be concerned about our treasure in Heaven. You believe in Christ and rest in His promises. I believe in Christ and rest in His promises. The only difference is our building material. So, when it comes to judging the value of that material, let us all consider that God is the one who will test that material and will reward accordingly.

this is the problem.

when it comes to eternal life. God will test the material based on his judgment, and his judgment is the law. if you fulfilled the law 9are perfect) you will get in. if you have not fulfilled the law. you better have Christ, who redeemed you from the law. are you will be found having a faulty foundation and be judged according to your work.

now, when it comes to a child of God. he does work for reward, and God will test that work. but if your not a child of God. you can be just as good as a child of God. your reward will still be condemnation.

 

[GreenNnice]

Your foundation is faith alone.

My foundation is faith without works is dead.

We each use material to build upon that foundation of Christ.

Let us each know we have salvation.

Let us each know we are rewarded accordingly.

I know as well as you, Christ is my Savior, and by that faith alone I am saved.

If we both are saved on faith alone, then let us be fruitful as God leads us to be so that through being co-participants with Him, we will have treasures in Heaven which will not corrode.

Really not much more to say.

e.o.m.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Beautifully 'led' said, cee.

Let's see what Satan does with that one. No, eg, you are not he.

We fight against powers and principalities of this world, NOT flesh and blood, Scripture tells us

yes we do.

So why can't you see that faith alone = faith without works is dead. They both say the same thing. Because one who does not have faith will be hearers and not doers. thus they had no faith period.

 

[cfultz3]

Amen. which is what I have been saying.

However. According to you we still cannot know. because we could chose to walk away, or fall away at any time. We are of all things the most pitiful of creatures. Thus under your gospel. my point remains. we can never know. because we can never know we will not fail. Just saying it does not make it so. I have known a many who like you believe the same and swore they would never fall away. Who at this time deny the very christ they spent years praising.

Inasmuch as we know we are saved when God is before us, then when one decides that he no longer wishes to be led by God, then he can rest assured that his salvation is no longer secured by the blood of the One he abandoned.

We all fall and we all know we need to repent (remember where you have fallen and repent and do those first works). It is those who do not repent that I am speaking to and of. To this I say, if one's eye is not single, then does he not have two masters to look upon? He will hate one and love the other. A man of an unsettled mind is like a raving foamy wave being tossed to and fro.

So, we who have but one Light is assured, and they who are torn between being led by God and being led to sin are the ones who lose their assurance when they deliberately turn away from the Light and back to the darkness, even though they were being led in the first place to God's rest.

 

[Abiding]

well said in post #619

Romans 5:1-5

Peace and Hope

5 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Inasmuch as we know we are saved when God is before us, then when one decides that he no longer wishes to be led by God, then he can rest assured that his salvation is no longer secured by the blood of the One he abandoned.

so then your foundation is on yourself and not God, and your ability to not do this.

We all fall and we all know we need to repent (remember where you have fallen and repent and do those first works). It is those who do not repent that I am speaking to and of. To this I say, if one's eye is not single, then does he not have two masters to look upon? He will hate one and love the other. A man of an unsettled mind is like a raving foamy wave being tossed to and fro.

so then we are under law and not under grace.

So, we who have but one Light is assured, and they who are torn between being led by God and being led to sin are the ones who lose their assurance when they deliberately turn away from the Light and back to the darkness, even though they were being led in the first place to God's rest.

this makes no sense.

if your saved out of the most horrible thing you can think of (hellfire and eternal separation) then why would you want to go back. You would not. Which is why those who have truely repented and truely understand what the gospel is and what the consequences of denying it truly are. CANT god back. BECAUSE THEY NEVER WOULD.

Only those who do not understand these things can go back, because they never understood it in the first place. which is why John went to great lengths showing us that one who claims to have been of us, departed for they were never of us in the first place. because IF THEY WERE TRULY OF US, The NEVER WOULD HAVE LEFT!

 

[Abiding]

one rule many use is to not make doctrine
out of a few hard to understand passages
when there are many many parallel passages
that are clear.

 

[cfultz3]

so then your foundation is on yourself and not God, and your ability to not do this.

My foundation is knowing that I am a created entity who was bestowed with freewill, as even the angels were.
My foundation is knowing that there are two final destinations.
My foundation is knowing that Jesus came to show us the way to God and is The Way to God.
My foundation is knowing that my obedience to Him to lead is one of willfulness because I do trust Him.

 

[cfultz3]

be back soon

taking my dog to the vet

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so then your foundation is on yourself and not God, and your ability to not do this.

My foundation is knowing that I am a created entity who was bestowed with freewill, as even the angels were.
My foundation is knowing that there are two final destinations.
My foundation is knowing that Jesus came to show us the way to God and is The Way to God.
My foundation is knowing that my obedience to Him to lead is one of willfulness because I do trust Him.

The first three are spot on.

the last one is dangerous. because again, your basing it all on yourself. and assuming your willingness will not fail, thus causing you to fail, your trusting yourself not to fall away or fall back.

When god said whoever has true faith in him, will not do those very thing. If you trusted God you would know you were adopted by him, and given an abba father, and would not have to worry about falling, because God will pick you up as he promised he would. And you would finally understand OSAS for what it really means.

Thats why I trust God. and not self.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

be back soon

taking my dog to the vet

hope it all goes well!!

 

[Abiding]

be back soon

taking my dog to the vet

dont eat the candies at the counter
they taste like dog food

 

[marianna]

My foundation is knowing that Jesus came to show us the way to God

How did He do this?

Wouldn't this be a more Biblical statement?

My foundation is knowing that Jesus came to reconcile us to God

 

[marianna]

dont eat the candies at the counter
they taste like dog food

 

[marianna]

Inasmuch as we know we are saved when God is before us, then when one decides that he no longer wishes to be led by God, then he can rest assured that his salvation is no longer secured by the blood of the One he abandoned.

We all fall and we all know we need to repent (remember where you have fallen and repent and do those first works). It is those who do not repent that I am speaking to and of. To this I say, if one's eye is not single, then does he not have two masters to look upon? He will hate one and love the other. A man of an unsettled mind is like a raving foamy wave being tossed to and fro.

So, we who have but one Light is assured, and they who are torn between being led by God and being led to sin are the ones who lose their assurance when they deliberately turn away from the Light and back to the darkness, even though they were being led in the first place to God's rest.

LED?
Have you YET done a greek study on this ever-so-imporant-to-you issue?
Please don't delay.

Find it in your favorite proof text, then check every passage where it is used.

Then let's see what it means.
Let's see how POWERFUL the Holy Spirit is, and if God can be trusted to accomplish His Will.

 

[cfultz3]

The first three are spot on.

the last one is dangerous. because again, your basing it all on yourself. and assuming your willingness will not fail, thus causing you to fail, your trusting yourself not to fall away or fall back. --- my willingness can fall and is the reason I place my hope in Him in being a Good Shepherd. I trust that when I fall He will show me my error and will lead me back on that path. I do not place my hope in my flesh seeing that it is not able to help me to remain faithful to the One I trust. It is what I will do with that willingness after I fall which matters. Do I chose to be convicted by Him or do I turn a deaf ear to Him? It is by that willingness, either way, which will determine if He is the Light of my eye or if the Darkness has become my new master (lord).

When god said whoever has true faith in him, will not do those very thing. If you trusted God you would know you were adopted by him, and given an abba father, and would not have to worry about falling, because God will pick you up as he promised he would. And you would finally understand OSAS for what it really means. -- If I am being led by Him then my faith is true. But trust me, I understand what you are saying too. One's faith is true if they hold on with hope in the promises left behind. If one is in the process of being lead, then that faith is true and if they were to die, they have salvation. If one is in the process of being lead and then abandons the walk, then that is a different story. As He is faithful to finish what He has started, so are we to remain faithful to the one who is doing the change in us. Indeed our Abba will pick us up, but only when we repent and change the path we are walking on. Just as a child of the rebellion who must first repent and turn to God as a merciful God, we too, when we fall into sin, must repent. God knows the intent of the heart, true repentance is what is sought by God.

Thats why I trust God. and not self. --Neither should anyone trust the self, seeing that self cannot stand justified before God by its works, but only by the shed blood of Christ. I do not trust myself and that is the reason why I place hope in God to show me the way.

..................

Sorry about the coming and going....now I need to cook super for the family...BBS

 

[cfultz3]

hope it all goes well!!

Just slapped me some ribs in the oven, that should free me up for about 2 hours.

he and my other dog was apparently playing to hard and he got his eye bruised.

 

[psychomom]

Just slapped me some ribs in the oven, that should free me up for about 2 hours.

he and my other dog was apparently playing to hard and he got his eye bruised.

Oh, man, for a second there...I mean I was thinking about the puppy, and then...you said ribs in the oven, so I...

Well, I'm glad to hear the dog's okay,

 

[cfultz3]

How did He do this?

Wouldn't this be a more Biblical statement?

is not Him reconciling us also Him showing us the way back to what was lost......a real fellowship. But yes, if that will clear things up, then I will change that to what you said was a more biblical statement. Thank you.

 

[cfultz3]

LED?
Have you YET done a greek study on this ever-so-imporant-to-you issue?
Please don't delay.

Find it in your favorite proof text, then check every passage where it is used.

Then let's see what it means.
Let's see how POWERFUL the Holy Spirit is, and if God can be trusted to accomplish His Will.

marianna,

again I must say you really turn my ears off from what you have to say.