The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[Absolutely]

The fact that you continually reject every single thing that TDW provides, is, shall we say
extremely suspicious......

The fact is that TDW is rarely if ever in the wrong on this topic. He is literally batting 1000. And providing copious quantities of BOTH nuanced and profound biblical truth.

All of this you reject for no good biblical reason IMO. Furthermore there's no doubt in my mind whatsoever that you are absolutely dead wrong on this topic. You're literally 100% wrong 100% of the time it's amazing really. I dare not express my opinion on why.....it's far too embarrassing....

I maintain they are "anti pretrib" first and postrib adherents secondly.

They just believe "pretrib rapture" is unfair.

They are conjecture centered.

 

[Absolutely]

I know most bibles do say what you are saying but not everyone takes the mark.

Rev 20:4 Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.

Yes
That is my point.
They are martyred for refusing.
Hence all have the mark.

 

[Absolutely]

I have been watching your discussion and I have been wondering if Paul was covering the departure and the falling away with one word. ( apostasia ) I sent this question to a skilled language professor at a university and waiting to hear back. Just wondering if it is possible?

You have about the same access to that component as he does


It simple translates " from standing" ( walking away...departing)

So anybody can torture it into saying most anything.

" from the faith" is implied.

It is not a smoking gun for either side of the debate.

But it is best to go with the literal " departure" because " from the faith" is already upon us in a massive scale.

Literal is best..." Departure"

 

[Absolutely]

The unsaved cannot commit Apostasy. It is speaking of Christians who don't understand the antichrist will come first and deceive as many Christians as he can and it will be a large amount. This is why bad doctrines are so very dangerous. If "Jesus" comes and says he wants to rapture you, tell him no and walk away. The fake "Jesus" will come first, long before the real one does.

Actually it is postribs that think the rapture involves Christ on a white horse.
I contend that it is you guys who are actually waiting for a white horseman that will be deceived by the white horseman fake christ.

 

[Absolutely]

THE TRIAL OF OUR FAITH IS MUCH MORE PRECIOUS THAN GOLD.


WHAT DOES IT SOUND LIKE?
2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.


DEFINITELY WHAT I AM LOOKING TO FIND
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, my father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.

THE TRIAL OF OUR FAITH IS MUCH MORE PRECIOUS THAN GOLD

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.


THE TRIAL OF OUR FAITH IS MUCH MORE PRECIOUS THAN GOLD.
SO THAT THE PROVEN GENUINENESS OF YOUR FAITH MORE PRECIOUS THAN GOLD PERISHING BY FIRE THOUGH BEING REFINED MAY BE DISCOVERED TO RESULT IN PRAISE AND GLORY AND HONOR IN REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST.


1383. dokimion ►
Strong's Concordance
dokimion: a testing
Original Word: δοκίμιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: dokimion
Phonetic Spelling: (dok-im'-ee-on)
Definition: a testing
Usage: a test, trial, what is genuine.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 1383 dokímion (a neuter noun) what is found approved (genuine) after testing, focusing on the inevitable results of this. See 1384 (dokimos) and 1381 (dokimázō).

1381b. dokimasia ►
Strong's Concordance
dokimasia: a testing, a proving
Transliteration: dokimasia
Definition: a testing, a proving



1384. dokimos ►
Strong's Concordance
dokimos: tested, approved
Original Word: δόκιμος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: dokimos
Phonetic Spelling: (dok'-ee-mos)
Definition: tested, approved
Usage: approved, acceptable, tried.

1 Corinthians 11:17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.
18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
9 Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted:
10 But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away.
11 For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways.
12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love Him.
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
18 Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

One must know the purpose of the gt and the rapture.

That should be ones starting place.
(Not some conjecture in ones mind about the rapture being unfair)

 

[Absolutely]

THE TRIAL OF OUR FAITH IS MUCH MORE PRECIOUS THAN GOLD.


WHAT DOES IT SOUND LIKE?
2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.


DEFINITELY WHAT I AM LOOKING TO FIND
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, my father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.

THE TRIAL OF OUR FAITH IS MUCH MORE PRECIOUS THAN GOLD

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.


THE TRIAL OF OUR FAITH IS MUCH MORE PRECIOUS THAN GOLD.
SO THAT THE PROVEN GENUINENESS OF YOUR FAITH MORE PRECIOUS THAN GOLD PERISHING BY FIRE THOUGH BEING REFINED MAY BE DISCOVERED TO RESULT IN PRAISE AND GLORY AND HONOR IN REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST.


1383. dokimion ►
Strong's Concordance
dokimion: a testing
Original Word: δοκίμιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: dokimion
Phonetic Spelling: (dok-im'-ee-on)
Definition: a testing
Usage: a test, trial, what is genuine.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 1383 dokímion (a neuter noun) what is found approved (genuine) after testing, focusing on the inevitable results of this. See 1384 (dokimos) and 1381 (dokimázō).

1381b. dokimasia ►
Strong's Concordance
dokimasia: a testing, a proving
Transliteration: dokimasia
Definition: a testing, a proving



1384. dokimos ►
Strong's Concordance
dokimos: tested, approved
Original Word: δόκιμος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: dokimos
Phonetic Spelling: (dok'-ee-mos)
Definition: tested, approved
Usage: approved, acceptable, tried.

1 Corinthians 11:17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.
18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
9 Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted:
10 But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away.
11 For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways.
12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love Him.
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
18 Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

No wonder you hate the rapture.

You see God never puts down his bull whip.

" tie my bride to the tree and lay her back bare. I will cleanse her with my whip. I will make her worthy"

Gives me the creeps how postribbers see God.

 

[Omegatime]

Yes
That is my point.
They are martyred for refusing.
Hence all have the mark.

Zechariah 13:8
In the whole land, says the Lord,
two thirds shall be cut off and perish,
and one third shall be left alive.
9 And I will put this third into the fire,
and refine them as one refines silver,
and test them as gold is tested.
They will call on my name,
and I will answer them.
I will say, ‘They are my people’;
and they will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’”

Surely these 1/3 did not take the mark of the beast.

And did not the Lord warn the righteous to flee from the antichrist in Jerusalem

15 “So when you see the desolating sacrilege spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; 17 let him who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house; 18 and let him who is in the field not turn back to take his mantle.

Some are martyred but many will not -- warned to flee from persecution

 

[cv5]

It is impossible that it is the main harvest of the gentile bride ( the rapture).

Definitely.

 

[cv5]

All first believers were all jewish and as gentiles we were grafted in, and now you want to separate the jews from the gentiles?

Myself I do believe that there is a distinction between Jew and Gentile in the 70th week wrath/DOTL. The 144,000 Israelites being an example.

There is no distinction in the age of Grace the Church age this is absolutely a fact. But there certainly is a clear distinction afterward. Undeniably there is also a clear distinction in the millennial reign....which itself is part of the DOTL.

Again this reinforces a pre-trib rapture dynamic.....as well as a dispensational dynamic.

It is my suspicion that all distinctions will disappear at the new creation Rev 21:1. This might also clear of the quandary of the Jews being the wife of Jehovah and the Church being the bride of Christ. I don't want to go there so please don't open up that topic lol.

 

[cv5]

THE TRIAL OF OUR FAITH IS MUCH MORE PRECIOUS THAN GOLD.

Rev 3:10.......any such testing in the 70th week does not apply to the Church. In fact we are promised to be kept from it.

 

[Absolutely]

Can any postribber explain the "all take the mark" anomaly?

I think it says " every man , woman, and child"

^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^

 

[cv5]

No wonder you hate the rapture.

You see God never puts down his bull whip.

" tie my bride to the tree and lay her back bare. I will cleanse her with my whip. I will make her worthy"

Gives me the creeps how postribbers see God.

Psycho sadistic wife beaters?

 

[Absolutely]

Here is GOD ADDRESSING THOSE WHO TEACH THE PRE TRIB APOSTASY DOCTRINE


Ezekiel 13:2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;

3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.

5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith and the LORD hath not sent them and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?

8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.

9 And Mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

10 Because, even because THEY HAVE SEDUCED MY PEOPLE SAYING PEACE and there was no peace and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:

WHOSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE SEDUCED? WHO IS GOING TO HEAR 'PEACE AND SAFETY?'

11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.

TO ALL THOSE PREACHING THE PRE TRIB APOSTASY DOCTRINE I SAY
IT SHALL FALL, THERE SHALL BE AN OVERFLOWING SHOWER AND YE, O GREAT HAILSTONES SHALL FALL AND A STORMY WIND SHALL REND IT

12 Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?

IT ISN'T like we don't keep asking for you to lay it all out in plain GODS WORDS, which WILL have to be done at some point.


13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in My fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in Mine anger, and great hailstones in My fury to consume it.

THAT IS WHAT GODS WRATH LOOKS LIKE

14 So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

WHAT IS THE FOUNDATION OF PRE TRIB? IT HAS NONE. IT GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING GOD HAS WRITTEN.

15 Thus will I accomplish My wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;

16 To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD.

17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,

18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

GET IT STRAIGHT. WILL YOU SAVE? NO, BUT YOU CAN "SAY" YOU WILL SAVE BY TEACHING PRE TRIB APOSTASY.

19 And will ye pollute Me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?


AGAIN, WHAT DOES PRE TRIB APOSTASY TEACH? BELIEVE THIS AND YOU ARE SAVED FROM TRIBULATION, DEATH. ARE THERE ANY OTHER DOCTRINES THAT TEACH WHAT PRE TRIB APOSTASY TEACHES?

20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

THERE WILL BE NO FLYING OFF TO HEAVEN.

21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

If God is delivering people out of YOUR hand that makes you one of THEM. Never mind, that is just conjecture

22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

PROMISING HIM LIFE WITH THE PRE TRIB APOSTASY DOCTRINE. AGAIN, IS THERE ANOTHER DOCTRINE ABOUT PROMISING LIFE BY 'FLYING' AWAY ? IF SO I HAVE NEVER HEARD IT

23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver My people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.


WARNED


17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.


My hands are clean

Who are you warning?

We all know what is coming.

The bible ends with what is coming.

Maranatha.

You know, what you do not believe.

The last words of the bible. From heaven. The heart of God and heaven

Postribs don't even know it or believe it if they ever did read it.

 

[cv5]

Rev 3:10.......any such testing in the 70th week does not apply to the Church. In fact we are promised to be kept from it.

What I mean to say is that we will be raptured before Gods wrath ever comes upon those who dwell upon the earth.

 

[Absolutely]

Psycho sadistic wife beaters?

It is beyond irony....because tribulation does have that cleansing, resetting, and maturing, component.

But we see the time of the gentiles finished or completed, and the times of Jacobs/ Israels trouble begins. At the trib..


Enter the bride.
If you notice, they NEVER go there.
NEVER.

THE major component of the apex of purpose....THE APEX.... is COMPLETELY MISSING!!!!

THAT IS APPALLING AND TRAGIC.

They shot at the barn, emptied both barrels, and missed, from 2 ft away.

 

[Absolutely]

What I mean to say is that we will be raptured before Gods wrath ever comes upon those who dwell upon the earth.

1 thes 1
9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Wow!!!!!!

I came across this yesterday at a bible study.

I can guarantee you, no postribber will ever bring that little jewel forward

 

[cv5]

Here is GOD ADDRESSING THOSE WHO TEACH THE PRE TRIB APOSTASY DOCTRINE


Ezekiel 13:2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;

3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.

5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith and the LORD hath not sent them and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?

8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.

9 And Mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

10 Because, even because THEY HAVE SEDUCED MY PEOPLE SAYING PEACE and there was no peace and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:

WHOSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE SEDUCED? WHO IS GOING TO HEAR 'PEACE AND SAFETY?'

11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.

TO ALL THOSE PREACHING THE PRE TRIB APOSTASY DOCTRINE I SAY
IT SHALL FALL, THERE SHALL BE AN OVERFLOWING SHOWER AND YE, O GREAT HAILSTONES SHALL FALL AND A STORMY WIND SHALL REND IT

12 Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?

IT ISN'T like we don't keep asking for you to lay it all out in plain GODS WORDS, which WILL have to be done at some point.


13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in My fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in Mine anger, and great hailstones in My fury to consume it.

THAT IS WHAT GODS WRATH LOOKS LIKE

14 So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

WHAT IS THE FOUNDATION OF PRE TRIB? IT HAS NONE. IT GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING GOD HAS WRITTEN.

15 Thus will I accomplish My wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;

16 To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD.

17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,

18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

GET IT STRAIGHT. WILL YOU SAVE? NO, BUT YOU CAN "SAY" YOU WILL SAVE BY TEACHING PRE TRIB APOSTASY.

19 And will ye pollute Me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?


AGAIN, WHAT DOES PRE TRIB APOSTASY TEACH? BELIEVE THIS AND YOU ARE SAVED FROM TRIBULATION, DEATH. ARE THERE ANY OTHER DOCTRINES THAT TEACH WHAT PRE TRIB APOSTASY TEACHES?

20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

THERE WILL BE NO FLYING OFF TO HEAVEN.

21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

If God is delivering people out of YOUR hand that makes you one of THEM. Never mind, that is just conjecture

22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

PROMISING HIM LIFE WITH THE PRE TRIB APOSTASY DOCTRINE. AGAIN, IS THERE ANOTHER DOCTRINE ABOUT PROMISING LIFE BY 'FLYING' AWAY ? IF SO I HAVE NEVER HEARD IT

23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver My people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.


WARNED


17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.


My hands are clean

Why are you constantly quoting Old Testament verses and apply them to the Church? Oh wait....you think that the house of Jacob is the Church.

Properly stated the Church, the gentile Bride (and the rapture) are a mystery NOT revealed in the Old Testament.

 

[cv5]

1 thes 1
9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Wow!!!!!!

I came across this yesterday at a bible study.

I can guarantee you, no postribber will ever bring that little jewel forward

Agreed. 1Thes 1:10 is a bull's-eye rapture verse. In fact I think the first and second Thessalonians really needs to be viewed as a total package.....In the fullness of its overall context and theme.

The removal from wrath and rapture components are indelibly stamped and quite irrefutable. Both concepts are there together at the same time.

And thank God for that blessed hope, comfort, relief and rest so provided.

 

[FreeGrace2]

LOL. No. Apostates depart because they never believed.

Possibly you failed to read my ENTIRE post. Where I cited a dictionary definition of 'apostacy'.

It means one who NO LONGER BELIEVES what they used to believe.

Of course, there are many believers who refuse to believe reality that believers have left the faith, such as Charles Templeton, who as a world renown evangelist, mentored a young Billy Graham, before leaving the faith.

They never believed with true saving faith I can tell you that.

Yes, you can give me your opinion. But a dictionary will tell you the truth.

Because if they did TRULY believe they would never depart. Simple as that.

Yes, I understand your opinion. But it isn't reality, as I've just given you a real example.

John 10:28,29. Boiler plate doctrine and unfailing guarantee. Spoken by Christ Himself.

These 2 wonderful verses don't even address apostasy. They teach eternal security. iow, even those who leave the faith are still saved.

I know that really bugs both Arminians and Calvinists, but such is life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus ONLY said it was the angels with Him as I quoted.

The clothing `fine linen, white and clean,` (Rev. 19: 14) is the same as the angels described in Rev. 15: 6. It refers to HOLY angels and not the demonic ones.

When God`s word says `holy ones,` then we need more clarification. It does NOT mean both.

I believe my response and explanation to you should suffice. If not, I am convinced by Rev 19 anyway.

Someone (maybe you?) even noted that "holy ones" can refer to either angels or saints.

What I can't get past is that Rev 19 has the saints in heaven getting ready for the wedding supper and then Jesus is returning to earth.

Why would He leave any saint in heaven when He is about to resurrect all the dead saints?