The finished work of the cross ?

[Roughsoul1991]

ohhh yea i feel you, completely i have been on here for over a years, my first account i deleted in order to change my name from Jason to follow jesus. ive been in the circle with a few in particular and have also blocked a couple, but recently i unblocked the 2 or three i had to block for the same reasons yu are stating. i realized that even though theres the same grouop of folks who never change, its also a great site to meet folks who impart christian things, things of the word like you do so often, and ive always believes that one person cant really grasp all of it by Gods design, because we are meant to come together to a fuller Knowledge and dis=fferent perspectives of the same things help alot to widen the understanding, or confirm and encourage.


i miss a few members that left because of the constant attacks by the gog crowd especially. pl=ilgrim passing through was my favorite she always had good insight and always had in context scripture, always had a common understanding but i learned much and was able to also share much with her. i emailed with her after she left but got locked our of my email it got spammed or whatever u call it. also bkerchaz was awesome with sharing the word in Love and helped to impart things

theres still a few i really understand you are one, desert rose and well actually quite a few now days i really get what they are sharing and stephen 63...peterjenz often i understand him thoroughly and appreciate His posts he gets attacked often, but i understand what it comes from i been there too mostly i find the best value in some of the ones who are argued with because they are speaking good things. i pay closer attention to those rejected by certain crowds.


i look at it now as a blessing and just hold on to what Jesus said about being excluded and insulted for the sake of the gospel. exceeding Joy lol

i also realize at times i have been pretty stubborn, been working on that alot. still stumble but workin hard to Just make sure of my intention being to spread seed the right way, for the right intention. do my best to stray from argumentative threads but its hard on here.

Lol yes peter takes a lot of attack lol.

Its not funny but it is. I guess because I have been there in a few threads I started. Where you get opposing views coming at you by like 5 people and you answer one only to find 4 more questions or comments. Usually its the same crowd with a few new people who jump in for awhile. But hey thats sometimes reality.

 

[graceNpeace]

.thats why were forgiven because His blood sealed His word which is abundatly better than moses word. by design,

I am sorry, but I didn't miss anything about Hebrews - I understand its theology pretty well.

You still seem confused - what makes you think that Jesus shed His blood to seal His word - that certainly was NOT the reason Jesus shed His blood on cross, and we are certainly NOT forgiven because Jesus shed blood to seal His word.
Jesus words stand whether blood was shed or not. His words do not need to be "sealed".

We are forgiven, yes because Christ died and shed His blood on the cross, because, and ONLY because, He took our sins on that cross and died the death we should have.

 

[lastofall]

"..he that believeth not is condemned already.." (John 3:18)

There is no in between or so-called gray area, but only exactly what He says is all that remains.

 

[OneFaith]

I absolutely agree with this 100 percent, i think part of the issue is that some really still have the mindset of horeb " dont let God speak anymore to us or we will die"

so the answer for them is to create a doctrine that doesnt involve repentance, or obedience to Gods Word, that is now and has always been Life to the dead. some see the word "obey" as an oppression, something thats arbitrary rules that really dont matter. but really His word even in eden was to keep us safe, and alive. satans deception accomplished the changed mind that was then afraid of His word, thinking it was death and against them, oppresive keeping the good fruit from them.

i see in Gods word according to the gospel, that there is plenty to lift us up when we fail , and offers forgiveness through His doctrine " forgive and be forgiven" and " blessed are the merciful for they will receive mercy" and also there is much to teach us Gods ways, Love for others, turn the other cheek, get rid of lust and greed, give to the poor, dont serve money. i notice He always teaches and then makes clear " do these things, dont only hear, but do them they are Life, freedom, spirit that quikens you.....and then of course in the epistles there are words that testify to the same things. and tell us things like " faith comes through hearing the word of God"

like abraham heard God say go into a land i will show you, abram got up and went as the Lord had said because He believed Him. same with noah, Gods Grace came to noah in genesis 6:8, and then noahs faith saved Him because He did hat God said, even thoiugh He didnt see the flood yet, God said it was coming and noah did as commanded and became the heir to the righteousness of faith that paul speaks of.

i think the definition of faith is missing in todays popular doctrines. james says faith without works is dead, which kind of fits what noah did, He believed and obeyed and was saved. everything comes through the word even our obedience when we dont omit the things clearly saying " you must do these things, obey them and Live"

it seems theres so many omissions of even pauls writings all of the warnings about repenting of the sinful actions, putting to death the acts of the flesh by following the spirit. its as if the spirit is also misunderstood as just a magical spirit that comes and forces us to do everything and not the word of God that were to follow after, seek after. theres plenty of Grace in the word, but also so many things were told clearly and plainly to do.

i believe in line with what you are saying here because thats what is there in scripture, i dont really understand the thinking that we should only accept parts of it, because things like " repent of your sins" will somehow destroy your life, or obey my commandments, will somehow lead you astray. i believe faith is very simple Believe and trust, and actually obey what God says to do. and thats faith. trust Jesus died as an atonement, and then learn and follow His word to everlasting Life, if a person messes up, simply follow the word of repentance and forgiving others, and then get back to walking in the things you have learned are right.


thanks for the great post Here, God bless and Keep you in the things of Jesus Christ our Lord and precious Savior !! whos word will never harm or lead astray anyone who will follow .

Thank you so much for saying so.

 

[mailmandan]

so thats your explaination of the gospel, why does Jesus say its all about His words so many times? and expressly says keep my words, obey my commands and you will receive the holy spirit, keep my sayings and you will be set free...ect..ect.... and How do you define faith?

i guess im wondering what changes Jesus words from what is plainly written, to something that is no where to be found?

It's sounds to me like you are putting the cart before the horse and are teaching salvation by works. What did Jesus say in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26 in regards to receiving eternal life? Where did Jesus say keep keep my words and obey My commands then after that you will receive the Holy Spirit? Believers keep His words and obey His commands BECAUSE we have received the Holy Spirit and are saved and not in order to receive the Holy Spirit and become saved. You have this backwards. We receive the Holy Spirit when we BELIEVE in the Lord Jesus Christ/believe the gospel (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17: 15:8,9: Ephesians 1:13).

Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Saving faith is belief, trust, reliance in Christ for salvation. Obedience which follows is works and we are not saved by works.

 

[Muzungu256]

i believe peters warning about pauls letters should be heeded by many.

yes we must be careful!!!!!!!!!!!!! but it says that those who are unlearned and unstable will twist them to their own destruction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mailmandan]

also where does this fit

hebrews 5:9 "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"

It sounds to me like you are reading this verse through the lens of salvation by works. So who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping His commandments and practicing righteousness (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him. Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6) so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so-called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works. *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

How do you define faith? What do you believe the gospel is and what do you believe it means to believe the gospel?

 

[Grace777x70]

In Romans 10:16, we read: But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" We can clearly see that we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Refusing to believe the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:8) is refusing to obey the gospel.

The gospel is a message of grace to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.

The gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes.. (Romans 1:16). We obey the gospel by choosing to believe/trust in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Amen...that is the finished work of Christ. He has bought us with His own blood and obtained eternal redemption for all those that hear and believe the message of Him.

Hebrews 9:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[Grace777x70]

The finished work of Christ is not a doctrine in itself - it is a summary statement, a phrase, that denotes the significance of what Jesus Christ accomplished on the cross for us.
It is true to say without this understanding there is no possibility that one can really be a Christian simply because one is putting one's faith in a false view of Christ.
Likewise, one's doctrinal views will be hopelessly flawed.

Well said...there is a religion called Christianity by some that tries to "mimic" the life of Christ by "doing Jesus' words" in the gospels. All good moral living religions of the world do the exact same thing and try to mimic good living and morals..

The gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is a transformation by God creating a new creation in Christ. A new heart and His life lived by walking by the Spirit within us.

This is living by grace through faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ in all the aspects that are to do with Him and in all that He has already accomplished.

Jesus said "I have many things to tell you but you cannot bear them now. But the Holy Spirit when He comes - He will teach you all things and reveal the things of Me and show them unto you."

Meaning - Jesus had many other things to tell us but the disciples couldn't understand them yet - Jesus has used Paul to show what these things are by the Holy Spirit. You do not get these in the 4 gospels. The words spoken to Paul are from Jesus' words and are just as valid.

The proclamation of Christ produces the profession of Christ, but the explanation of Christ is what produces the experience of Christ.

Believers can never fully enjoy the triumph of the gospel and express Christ in this world victoriously until there has been an explanation and exposition of the vivid details of the redemptive work of Christ that has gained a foothold in our renewed minds.

The 4 gospels were eyewitness accounts of the historical events in the life and ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ. Christianity is based on the veracity of these events as having occurred in real time, in all historicity and specificity.

Nevertheless it is the unveiling of the spiritual realities of these events that relates to the believer in Christ. This is found in the revelation that the Lord Jesus Christ gave to the apostle Paul.

The 4 gospels are the proclamation of the gospel. They disclose to us what men saw. Acts of the apostles is the demonstration of the gospel, but it is Paul's letters which give us an explanation of the gospel. It is the Pauline Epistles that are the constitution of this church age.

Paul's epistles explain what happened from the cross, death, burial, quickening and resurrection to the being seated at the right hand of the Father. Without these epistles we would have no idea what Jesus our Lord actually accomplished for us.

Paul was taught by Jesus Christ Himself to explain His gospel = to reveal the mystery that was hidden in God until it was revealed by Christ to Paul. The mystery being Christ Himself and the riches of that glory is that Christ is in us and we are in union with Him as one spirit!

These "explanations" of the mystery of the gospel that Christ is in us - cannot be found openly in the 4 gospels themselves. We need to marry the things Paul said with the words of Jesus in the 4 gospels.

It is in Paul's explanation of the gospel that Christ is in us - the hope of glory where we find the nutrients to walk by the spirit.

 

[Hungry]

Have you ever had to suffer through something...like a big exam? When it was done I'm sure you said something like, "Ahhh, it's finished." Or, "I'm glad that's over." Well, let's not over spiritualized everything. Sin separates us from God. Sacrifices atone for our sins. Christ was such a Holy sacrifice that it atoned for any sin that the world can ever dish out. This unites us with the Almighty perpetually. Now we don't suffer any interruption in communication so He can give us instructions on how we should serve Him. We swap this short life, for an eternal one at the resurrection. Our life is to be dedicated to His service. We are His body and He works His power through us. We are like catalysts. When we drive a car, it is the driver's will. He is to be in the driver seat of our vehicle (body). We surrender it to Him. Just like a radio signal needs a receiver to make the energy sensible. God needs our bodies to enact His will, to make His Spirit sensible in this world.

 

[Meggido]

The cross was the final task.

If that is the case then he is still dead and never rose again.

 

[Meggido]

Do you overlook who it was that was on the cross?


its the cut to the heart revelation of HIS laying down the life for us so as to be for us OUR LIFE and OUR HOPE

Thats what we take to heart and that's what brings us to the knee buckling/ heart rending truth of the GOSPEL

just how far all had fallen short of the HOLY GLORY of GOD and just how much all were in need of a savior


This is what leads us to repentence and it's our love for HIM that brings us to obedience to OUR LORD

you seem to be throwing out the parts of the NT when Paul says we have died with him and also raised with him.

Romans 6

 

[BeyondET]

I've shown this to someone once before, the prodigal son parable, in that the new is quite different than the old.

 

[miknik5]

you seem to be throwing out the parts of the NT when Paul says we have died with him and also raised with him.

Romans 6

I don't throw anything out
and wont

Thank you though for understanding that the word "seem" is your opinion and does not hold as a truth of anyone

it is best to speak of what you know for a certainty to be truth and not to offer opinions

 

[miknik5]

you seem to be throwing out the parts of the NT when Paul says we have died with him and also raised with him.

Romans 6

Who did Paul address
did he address those outside THE BODY?

paul wrote letters to the believing BODY IN CHRIST
And he only wrote letters of instruction and correction as issues arose within the believing BODY

He didn't actress unbelievers...

 

[SarahFaith]

How can we get on the cross with HIM?

HE's not there
HE is risen!


HE didn't say get on the cross with ME

HE said pick up your cross (of flesh) and follow HIM

HE is leading us by LIVING WATER unto the PRESENCE of THE FATHER

Our work is to remain in HIM and walk by faith and not by sight

that's a stilling of the flesh and that's a very hard "work" because it is more a passive work than an active one


Do you understand?

we come to rest in HIS SOVEREIGNTY in all things

the "righteous" shall live by faith
and the "righteous" will testify that it wasn't anything in themselves that made them "righteous"

but it was HIS ROYAL ROBE AND COVERING OF RIGHTEOUSNESS

Revelation 19

7 “Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.”

8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

 

[miknik5]

Revelation 19

7 “Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.”

8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

ROMANS 3:21 through 3:26
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

[miknik5]

Revelation 19

7 “Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.”

8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

Can I ask you?

do you have any idea what "works"' these saints will be doing during this time?

 

[dcontroversal]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and God-given freewill. I encourage you to think for yourself. We all must study the Bible and ask, seek, and knock for understanding. I have, and believe I've been granted, for He said he who seeks finds. How exactly do you believe I am misunderstanding scripture? What do you believe is the meaning of the prodigal son?[/QUOTE]

The meaning is obvious....

A prime example of a saved child of God squandering his inheritance through riotous living......things to note....

a. He was a SON through the whole process
b. He never LOST his position as a SON through the whole process
c. He was perceived as DEAD by HS actions, but was VERY MUCH ALIVE through the whole process
d. He WAS still received as a SON at the end of the process
e. THE robe and ring point to the COVERING and Authority as a SON through the whole process

This parable has ZERO to do with gaining, keeping or losing salvation....it is about the loss of reward or inheritance due to sinful, riotous living by a saved child of GOD

1st Corinthians 3 bears this out with EVERYMAN'S work being tried by fire....the PRODIGAL'S SON works being found under the banner of wood, hay and stubble.....HE shall suffer LOSS, yet will STILL be SAVED..........

 

[SarahFaith]

ROMANS 3:21 through 3:26
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Revelation 19


7 “Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.”
8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine LINEN, CLEAN and BRIGHT, for the fine LINEN is the righteous acts of the saints.