The Holy Spirit convicts of sin

[Grace777x70]

" the other problem with hyper-grace there is a doctrine that we should never talk about sin or confront believers about it" there ladies and gentlemen is a LIE. I am not hyper-grace, but I have not read that anywhere by anyone of merit. so there you go, total lie.

I agree...these are examples of the "constructs" people can make in their minds and then they proceed to talk about how bad that is and in reality - it is only in their minds.

I have often posted that sin is destructive and it is deceitful. It distorts our view of the Lord, ourselves, and those around us. It will destroy our lives, those we love and is a bad witness of the Lord.

This is why we preach and teach the grace of Christ so much as it is the only thing that teaches us how to live godly in this present world and it is all by the exchanged life we have in Christ because of what He has done for us.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No the twist is done by people like you taking what they say, twist what they mean, and going on these which hunts (heresy killers I have heard ot called) to expose why they think is a lie, But which they do not even understand what it is.

This OP has PROVED THAT POINT!

You apologized for falsely accusing Peter, now this? Amazing!

 

[Grace777x70]

Don't fall for the "baiting"..it serves no real purpose at all. We can leave our points and scriptures and trust the Holy Spirit to guide us in all things. He will be faithful to us! We can trust Him.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You know Peter, you do many a great disservice speaking in such a way. Could you please consider that you're falsely presenting the opposing stance, for but a moment? You may disagree with their interpretation of scripture, but there is no need for misrepresentation. I am telling you, listen. You are misrepresenting the stance of the "hyper-grace" people.

If you are the honest person you believe yourself to be, then you will reconsider your approach. You will not speak falsely upon those you disagree with. This is only if you're honest. Are you honest? Then please, reconsider your approach and speak as a man informed. Study up on their stance, because you're misrepresenting them. I am asking you, can you be honest? It would be appreciated.

Peter, if you like let's let this be the next item on the list. I do bear witness with you that hyper grace does teach that being sin conscious is evil.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Don't make the mistake of accusing someone of lying when you really don't know much about the subject or haven't read it somewhere. That makes you look like an accuser.

Peter, I can help you find the info to refute this charge if you would like.

Yeah, Lets all do as HRFTD does.

1. Go to webpages which speak against another group. SO we can find out what they (the other group we disagree with) really believe
2. Take what these people say as gospel truth, it does not matter if they speak truth or not.. They give us fuel so we can refute the so called lies of our enemy (the heretic)
3. Not go to the people themselves, to listen to what they have to say. (they are the enemy, they do not know what they are talking about anyway)
4. attack other people who try in kindness to show us what we are doing, and ask us to please listen to the ones we are trying so hard to fight against. then say they do not know what they are talking about. We have the truth, because we got it on the world wide web, or some book,
5. Even if the person himself comes and tries to explain their position. You know better than they do. so you can tell them they do not know what they are talking about.

And why is this stuff allowed to continue in Christian Chat. and be seen as ok???

 

[Ariel82]

there is a doctrine that we should never talk about sin or confront believers about it."
********

Rephrased:

There is doctrine that we should never talk about being convicted or rebuke believers concerning their sin.

*****_**
Replace word with convict and you can see both sides because the above is how I define the word convict.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Yeah, Lets all do as HRFTD does.

1. God to webpages which speak against another group. SO we can find out what they really believe
2. Take what these peopel say as gospel truth
3. Not go to the people themselves, to listen to what they have to say.
4. attack other people and say they do not know what they are talking about. We have the truth, because wegot it on the world wide web, or some book,
5. Even if the person himself comes and tries to explain their position. You know better than they do. so you can tell them they do not know what they are talking about.

And why is this stuff allowed to continue in Christian Chat. and be seen as ok???

Peter went to the website of a popular hyper grace teacher and quoted what he said, which refutes the false charge against him. Let's continue with the other items on the list following this methodology.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You apologized for falsely accusing Peter, now this? Amazing!

I did falsely accuse peter. Of saying they said the HS does not CONVICT a believer of sin.

But Peter misrepresented what they actually believed..

I will not appologize for exposing the lie behind the so called "truth"

 

[PeterJens]

More gentleness would help instead of the wounded victim act....
Why do you do that anyway?

"the wounded victim act...." sorry Ariel82. Step back just a little. I am a child sharing that which is most precious to me.
This is my life, what I have followed since being a teenager. It matters to me more than life. One thought, one avenue, one different perspective can send me down a different path both emotionally and physically.

I am told I know nothing, both in conversation, spiritual understanding, of simple realities and truths, that I am a sinner in need of being saved. Then I am told I am lying, a liar. So my life is a waste of time, my hope meaningless and I am on the way to hell. And why is this? OSAS.

Then it is because I defend my experience and what I stand for and all the traditional christian believers.

This type of attack is called a total personality assassination. If you do not see this, then you are blind.

And the person causing this is EG.

Now you are right it does not matter, because EG is the one who has no basis for anything he says.

So in summary this is no act, it is called being emotionally open. Too few know what this actually is. It is about being real.
EG will always be who he is, I expect nothing more.

The real perspective dear reader is what matters is your approach and your love for the Lord and your walk with Him.
So may I encourage you to listen to Jesus's words, walk in obedience and righteousness and find the Kingdom of Heaven in your heart.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

there is a doctrine that we should never talk about sin or confront believers about it."

Replace word with convict and you can see both sides because the above is how I define the word convict.

Just remember, Some people my interpret the word "convict" a different way, And we can not be so legalistic in our mindset that we can;t see, they may be right too..

Willy, Ben and Grace777 have all said and admitted, we need to confront people who are struggling with sin, Just not wiht a judgmental attitude, Why do you have to tell a person, THATS SIN, When they already know it..

I used to watch people do that type of convicting (westboro baptist church who is always out picketing are perfect examples) that type of convicting should make us all sick to our stomachs, because it does not represent God.

 

[BenFTW]

Peter, if you like let's let this be the next item on the list. I do bear witness with you that hyper grace does teach that being sin conscious is evil.

You're licking your lips and showing your teeth. Are you so hungry for a fight? How is that peace in your soul? God can give you rest. VVhy is it at every turn you're so adamant to passive aggressively stir the pot? Do you enjoy strife? You too, I ask, can you be honest? Please reevaluate the way you present things, because at the moment, whether of ignorance or malintent, you are bearing false witness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Peter went to the website of a popular hyper grace teacher and quoted what he said, which refutes the false charge against him. Let's continue with the other items on the list following this methodology.

keep on going herose.

You all have been proven over and over to take people out of context. and yell and scream they are lies.. as well as go to other websites to post lies about other believers. A horrific thread which was closed last week was based on those things..as well as posting some things others have said out of context to prove theri lie.

Did Peter prove his point, that they say the HS does not convict.

Yes

Did peter prove that they are heretics.. No. Far from it. He proved he is on witch hunt (as you all are)

Its been going on for MONTHS NOW. it is time to STOP THIS NONSENSE.

If your going to bear false witness against others. Expect to be confronted..

Your so out to prove everyone as liars, by nitpicking everything said, You can't see truth.

don;t blame others for saying you do this, when it has been a habit of doing those things over and over.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"the wounded victim act...." sorry Ariel82. Step back just a little. I am a child sharing that which is most precious to me.
This is my life, what I have followed since being a teenager. It matters to me more than life. One thought, one avenue, one different perspective can send me down a different path both emotionally and physically.

I am told I know nothing, both in conversation, spiritual understanding, of simple realities and truths, that I am a sinner in need of being saved. Then I am told I am lying, a liar. So my life is a waste of time, my hope meaningless and I am on the way to hell. And why is this? OSAS.

Then it is because I defend my experience and what I stand for and all the traditional christian believers.

This type of attack is called a total personality assassination. If you do not see this, then you are blind.

And the person causing this is EG.

Now you are right it does not matter, because EG is the one who has no basis for anything he says.

So in summary this is no act, it is called being emotionally open. Too few know what this actually is. It is about being real.
EG will always be who he is, I expect nothing more.

The real perspective dear reader is what matters is your approach and your love for the Lord and your walk with Him.
So may I encourage you to listen to Jesus's words, walk in obedience and righteousness and find the Kingdom of Heaven in your heart.

Never ever admit, I may be wrong, even when a sister tried to talk to you with kindness..

I should just let yuo go peter. You prove almost every time you speak everyting i say is true. Not that that matters, because it saddens me to no end.. Because I have seen people like you, and been you myself. and it is a sad place to be..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You're licking your lips and showing your teeth. Are you so hungry for a fight? How is that peace in your soul? God can give you rest. VVhy is it at every turn you're so adamant to passive aggressively stir the pot? Do you enjoy strife? You too, I ask, can you be honest? Please reevaluate the way you present things, because at the moment, whether of ignorance or malintent, you are bearing false witness.

sadly, it seems some are here for that very purpose..

so many good people have left lately because of this nonsense, I just pray things get back under control soon before others leave.

 

[PeterJens]

In all discussion words will always approximate a position. To have a discussion you need to believe in the integrity of the participants. If you start saying someone is lying, intentionally saying things that are not true, you no longer have a discussion it is just a dispute. In christian terms it is also sin and against what we stand for.

Now if participants what to believe a different faith and follow a different set of morals, that is fine, but it is not following Jesus.

To put it simply hyper-grace are a generic group which have a rolling set of beliefs, so the best you can do is go with ones expressed by a leader or teacher and discuss its merits. What makes this discussion often heated is people say it is evil to believe these points and not those. This creates a different atmosphere.

A further complication is certain concepts have a logical meaning, though the speaker can mean them differently. It is not wrong to express the logical meaning and differentiate from the intended. They are both valid ideas. A further complication is when the words used culturally are used differently by the groups, then understanding is no longer possible without clarification while using these words.

My experience of groups is some use this to create friction and animosity, and then reject and run down the opposition without engaging properly.

And why do I write all this. Is because truth will win out, and you find the truth by working through it step by step.
But dare the hyper-grace people trust God this much to walk in the light?

 

[Ariel82]

Quote from PeterJens

"That which is most precious to me.
This is my life, what I have followed since being a teenager. It matters to me more than life. One thought, one avenue, one different perspective can send me down a different path both emotionally and physically."

You need a hug.

You don't need to be a victim is the message I am trying to tell you.

Dig your roots deep and allow God to make you mature and perfect in Christ. Then people's words won't wound you so deeply.

Even though you have walked with the Holy Spirit since you were a teenager, God still asks us all to grow in Him until we are no longer babes but mature adults able to help others.

I know you may not be there yet, but I see you growing and praise God for that.

Remember that God loves you and you have brothers and sisters who do understand what you say and love and pray with you too.

The others don't know what it is they are doing with their words, but you have to let go of pride and the desire to be seen as righteous.

We have no righteousness in ourselves, only in Christ.

If we accept that then it doesn't matter as much how people see us, but the conversation says focused on what God says and His truth.

If we keep getting offended every time someone calls us a bad name, then the conversation moves from focus on God to fights to defend self.

Let us allow God to defend our character and our hearts and let us use our words and time to defend God's truth


***note..Sorry if you get offended if I call you a babe in Christ, If it helps I consider myself 5 years old but I know toddlers hate being called baby.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In all discussion words will always approximate a position. To have a discussion you need to believe in the integrity of the participants. If you start saying someone is lying, intentionally saying things that are not true, you no longer have a discussion it is just a dispute. In christian terms it is also sin and against what we stand for.

Now if participants what to believe a different faith and follow a different set of morals, that is fine, but it is not following Jesus.

To put it simply hyper-grace are a generic group which have a rolling set of beliefs, so the best you can do is go with ones expressed by a leader or teacher and discuss its merits. What makes this discussion often heated is people say it is evil to believe these points and not those. This creates a different atmosphere.

A further complication is certain concepts have a logical meaning, though the speaker can mean them differently. It is not wrong to express the logical meaning and differentiate from the intended. They are both valid ideas. A further complication is when the words used culturally are used differently by the groups, then understanding is no longer possible without clarification while using these words.

My experience of groups is some use this to create friction and animosity, and then reject and run down the opposition without engaging properly.

And why do I write all this. Is because truth will win out, and you find the truth by working through it step by step.
But dare the hyper-grace people trust God this much to walk in the light?

I would rather dare you to open your heart, and listen to people with that open mind, and you will see, they are not the horrible, evil, heretical group you all are trying to make them out to be.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see things different than Ariel does, as far as what is really happening, But I will pray and ask God to continue to give her wisdom and strength, and maybe SHE can finally do what others have tried, and break through a persons heart to what is going on..

Good luck sis.

 

[Ariel82]

In all discussion words will always approximate a position. To have a discussion you need to believe in the integrity of the participants. If you start saying someone is lying, intentionally saying things that are not true, you no longer have a discussion it is just a dispute. In christian terms it is also sin and against what we stand for.

Now if participants what to believe a different faith and follow a different set of morals, that is fine, but it is not following Jesus.

To put it simply hyper-grace are a generic group which have a rolling set of beliefs, so the best you can do is go with ones expressed by a leader or teacher and discuss its merits. What makes this discussion often heated is people say it is evil to believe these points and not those. This creates a different atmosphere.

A further complication is certain concepts have a logical meaning, though the speaker can mean them differently. It is not wrong to express the logical meaning and differentiate from the intended. They are both valid ideas. A further complication is when the words used culturally are used differently by the groups, then understanding is no longer possible without clarification while using these words.

My experience of groups is some use this to create friction and animosity, and then reject and run down the opposition without engaging properly.

And why do I write all this. Is because truth will win out, and you find the truth by working through it step by step.
But dare the hyper-grace people trust God this much to walk in the light?

Just remember everyone who claims the title "hyper grace" can't be lumped together.

Give them what they crave..,respect by treating them as a unique person loved by God.

Find out first what each person who wants to converse with you stands for before blasting down things...

It's like trying to talk to a teenager who is playing video games at the same time....very rude not to pay attention to those you are talking too and instead continue blasting things down.

 

[PeterJens]

Guys - all you do is claim the victim card and never properly discuss why we do not accept your position.

You then say we are the aggressive ones, when you constantly tell us we are not saved, blind, lost, pharisees etc like you were before you came to the light.

Where I started was simple. God is righteous. We are called to be righteous. God empowers us through Christ to walk righteously and be holy. We have an emotional and moral imperative to follow Jesus. Obedience to Jesus's commands show we are His friends.

Now somewhere along these lines you all disagree and call us legalists, self righteous, earning our salvation.

My first question months ago was is it possible to walk righteously? I now would say yes.
Are we called to do so and confess and repent of sin in the traditional meaning of this phrase when we are aware of it? I would say yes.

Now this walk took us through doctrines of Total Inability, conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit and ones conscience.
It appears many agree with the conviction of sin is true and right, but not sure about total inability.

Maybe that should be the next topic. What is total inability?