The Holy Spirit convicts of sin

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ladylynn

Guest
Here is an article from the Paul Ellis that the OP mentioned .

How Does the Holy Spirit Convict Us?

Through the law,” says the mixed-grace preacher. “It is by God’s law that we are convicted. When you sin, the Holy Spirit will remind you of God’s holy commands and show you the way to go.”

The Bible says you are not under law, but grace. But if we get rid of the law, how will we know how to please the Lord? How will the Holy Spirit set us on the straight and narrow? Or to use a recent example I read on Charisma News, how will we know it’s a bad idea to steal from Walmart?

The mixed-grace preacher says the law shows us the way of life. Yet the hyper-grace preacher Paul said the law ministers death (2 Cor. 3:7). Something doesn’t add up.

The mixed-grace preacher describes the Holy Spirit as a Spirit of law, but the writer of Hebrews said he is the Spirit of grace (Heb 10:29). Again, something doesn’t add up.

I have heard people say they were convicted of sin while reading the law and that this caused them to run to God in repentance. These experiences testify to the true ministry of the law—it helps us recognize sin and our need for grace. But the law is not the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Grace does not minister to you through the law.

The ministry that brought death, … was engraved in letters on stone… If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! (2 Cor 3:7-9)

Look into the mirror of the law and you will feel condemned, every time. That’s what the law does. It points out your faults and failings. But that is not what the Holy Spirit does. That is not the more glorious ministry that brings righteousness.

When you sin it takes no faith to look into the mirror of the law and agree that you made a mess. It takes faith to listen to the Holy Spirit and agree that in Christ you are as righteous and holy as he is! This is the good news that turns sinners into saints. This is the startling revelation that empowers you to go and sin no more.

How does the Spirit of grace convict us?

A law-conscious preacher will define conviction (elegcho in John 16:8) as fault-finding and rebuke. But an interpretation of conviction which is more consistent with the Holy Spirit’s gracious character is expose, or bring into the light. (More here.)




How does the Holy Spirit convict us? He does it by turning on the lights, not to shame you (Jesus carried your shame), but to show you the way to life. Ian Thomas describes it like this:

The Holy Spirit is like a man with a lamp entering a dark and dirty room, and what you have learned to live with in the dark becomes repugnant in the light.

Think of Saul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:3). By his own account he was chief of sinners. Then the lights went on and he became a different man.

I have written elsewhere about the need for a new covenant definition of conviction, one that does not emphasize your badness but God’s goodness and grace.

But the simple fact is the Holy Spirit will never convict you of your sin. When you sin, your conscience may condemn you, the law will condemn you, the judge and jury may condemn you, the religious may condemn you, and the devil will certainly condemn you, but against the chorus of condemners stands the sweet Holy Spirit who defends you and draws you to grace.

The Holy Spirit’s conviction has nothing to do with your sin and everything to do with God’s grace. It’s not about the bad thing you’ve done but the good thing he wants to do in you right now.


https://escapetoreality.org/2014/09/25/how-the-holy-spirit-convicts/






I like these simple illustrations you put up. Not sure why they are not appreciated for their simplicity lol. It is sort of funny in a way how once a person has been familiar with their idea of God, it is so difficult to put our limited human ideas aside and allow the true God of the Bible come through to take place of the human perspective we have had of God since we first heard of Him.

This does in fact happen in many people's lives once they go through a major tragic or horrific time in life. We are forced to re evaluate ALL we once knew as truth and fact about many many things in our life. We have no choice if we want to stay sane and function on some level.


We either change our ways OR go down the drain yelling we are right even as we get engulfed down the drain screaming "I AM RIGHT! I AM RIGHT! I HAVE TO BE RIGHT!!!!" (can you hear the water sucking the guy down the drain?) and there he goes.....

OR we can CHANGE before the drain sucks us down. Oh wow, change is so hard to do. We humans are not good at change. We build our lives around the familiar and the secure. We are made that way by God. It is how we survive. It is only when our survival is threatened that we will even open a door to the possibility of changing. That is why human pride is so dangerous and probably why God hates it so much. It will kill you one way or the other. Either now or later at the end of your life. A prideful person is an angry person and one who will fight to the death to prove their point. Why? because their way of life is at stake.

That is the reason our life has to be IN Christ or it is always subject to our own personal kind of defenses that comes out in anger and pride. I have found since being on both sides of this issue., that it (used to be) when someone says something so outrageous or does something so shocking to attack me, my first inclination is to put up walls of defenses. They are strong and high walls of my own making that were learned from years of experience. Then I shoot from the top of the walls of safety my own bullets of demolition at the perceived enemy. (this is so outrageous of us humans especially Christians)

But now, since Jesus is my defense and my shield I can actually see those walls going up as a natural human defense. They just go up like a turtle shell or any other defense we see in nature like fish changing color in the ocean to blend into the scenery or octopuses with the ink. All forms of defense.

Then the next part of defense begins to form., the part where I shoot my enemy from a top of my defense point. (this was the next natural defense) That is where the Holy Spirit has reminded me Jesus is my defense and my strong hold. I am no longer required to defend myself anymore. He will do it. I can also slowly allow the walls to go down because I realize I'm not in danger. The Holy Spirit directs me to Psalm 91 in my mind and reminds me I am a righteous daughter who has a shield and defender now.

Unless we are willing to change and allow God to be God in our lives the way He really is., we will never actually experience the joy of being defended by Him or the awesome sweet conviction of our righteousness in Christ by the Holy Spirit.



 
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Ariel82

Guest
I think you understand the whole concept of The Holy Spirit convicting (hang-dog sorrow) unbelievers. But, it should be obvious that you are not shamed by God when you do wrong (sin), but are shown your error, and are lovingly guided into doing right.
Seems the same to me. Can you clarify the difference?



God let's it rain on them both. Why wouldn't he convict them both of sin?

Only difference I see is the reaction of the saved versus unsaved.
 
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And willie? Please don't think that because I am not able to say it that I hate you, think you are evil, or have anything but loving intentions. I KNOW you are my brother and I am grateful that you are.

And please forgive me if having a conversation with me is confusing because I have someone on ignore.
So far, THIS post has been the only thing confusing to me. LOL ????
 
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I think you understand the whole concept of The Holy Spirit convicting (hang-dog sorrow) unbelievers. But, it should be obvious that you are not shamed by God when you do wrong (sin), but are shown your error, and are lovingly guided into doing right.
Hmmm...I can't say I am not at all ashamed by my behavior when He points it out to me. But I CAN say that a few years ago, in my journal, I was writing to God and I said, Lord, I feel I am never contrite enough when you show me these things in me but I can't help it because if I try to be contrite, I am overwhelmed with joy that you DO show me and don't leave me in self-deceit. I said/wrote: I want to be sorry but it is as if you are tickling me and the joy keeps me from being contrite enough!
 
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I am confused but trying to understand too. I wanted to ask if someone could...put it in their own words, maybe try a different way of explaining to get it through my gray matter.
There is no verse that says we are the righteousness of GOD. Willie thinks 2 Corinthians 5:21 does say that, but inwardly he knows that it really doesn't. IMO that's why he's giving you the run around.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Lovely words Ladylynn, it's wonderful to watch spiritual strongholds crumble and have enough faith to stop shooting arrows in our defense and allow God to be our shield and sword.

Truly wonderful.
 
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So far, THIS post has been the only thing confusing to me. LOL ????
Sorry haha!
I wanted you to know my heart and to not think that because I am not able to understand or to say, "I am the righteousness of God," that I didn't want you to think I was attacking you or saying you were evil or a heretic or any of the awful things I've heard you called. I wanted you to know that I know you are my brother!
 
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1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)

[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,



It's almost midnight here so I'm heading off to bed. Have a great night everyone and I pray that we grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord. Bless you all...:)
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Hmmm...I can't say I am not at all ashamed by my behavior when He points it out to me. But I CAN say that a few years ago, in my journal, I was writing to God and I said, Lord, I feel I am never contrite enough when you show me these things in me but I can't help it because if I try to be contrite, I am overwhelmed with joy that you DO show me and don't leave me in self-deceit. I said/wrote: I want to be sorry but it is as if you are tickling me and the joy keeps me from being contrite enough!
God doesn't want sack clothe and ashes. He gave us joy to remind us that though we make mistakes He still loves us and if we listen He will show is how to grow so that we can help and encourage others who face the same situation.
 
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Seems the same to me. Can you clarify the difference?



God let's it rain on them both. Why wouldn't he convict them both of sin?

Only difference I see is the reaction of the saved versus unsaved.
When I was first shown my sinfulness, thirty seven years ago, I cried on my bed for three solid hours. And because I was steeped in legalism (CoC) I was baptized out of pure fear of burning in a Hell.

Today, when I go wrong, I almost feel joy at the Spirit pointing it out, and I can often hardly wait for the chance to go try to straighten things out with a brother or sister, absolutely thrilled at the opportunity to do so.

THAT is the huge difference in being CONVICTED, and being reminded that I am God's kid, and that I need to let it show more in my walk so that He will be more glorified than He has been by some of the stuff I had been doing.
 
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Sorry haha!
I wanted you to know my heart and to not think that because I am not able to understand or to say, "I am the righteousness of God," that I didn't want you to think I was attacking you or saying you were evil or a heretic or any of the awful things I've heard you called. I wanted you to know that I know you are my brother!
Can I tell you a little story about that?

A friend had awful problems with lust, and he started repeating that verse. Sometimes fifty times a day, he related to me. And it brought him right through that mess. I adopted the same tactic, and it has worked for me. And, I never used to be a verse-quoting person. So, I advertise it now in my signature.
 
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God doesn't want sack clothe and ashes. He gave us joy to remind us that though we make mistakes He still loves us and if we listen He will show is how to grow so that we can help and encourage others who face the same situation.
I agree. This has been my experience. It also seems to be what grace777 and willie are saying.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
It reminds me when my kids do wrong, they cry and start beating themselves up. Its like their whole world collapses.

I just hug them and tell them, look you made a mistake but I still love you. I will love you no matter what, even if one day you decide you hate me.

If course my kids tell me, mom I could never hate you.

And I respond, then why do you think I could ever stop loving you.

Why did I answer like that, because before I had kids and I rebelled against God and ran from Him. I had a dream that I continued down a path of selfishness and seeking only my own pleasure. Eventually I didn't care about anything and ended up murder my family. I work up with the vision of my blood stained hands and a twisted me laughing as blood and destruction rained down...

My heart was convicted and I gave God control of my life. Not because I was afraid of punishment but I was made aware of the destruction I could cause by cutting my own path.

I fell down on my knees and prayed. Heartbroken, condemning myself, feeling worthless. God found me and filled my heart with joy and told me His love was eternal.

Dreams can be warnings not to walk down paths of temptation or the can be inspired messages to encourage and bless others around us. Or could be a way for our minds to process our day or our hearts and minds...

Perhaps that is why we should not let the sun set on our anger but pray and forgive others.

Don't know if any of that makes sense..
 
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Sorry haha!
I wanted you to know my heart and to not think that because I am not able to understand or to say, "I am the righteousness of God," that I didn't want you to think I was attacking you or saying you were evil or a heretic or any of the awful things I've heard you called. I wanted you to know that I know you are my brother!
BTW, don't hold it against some of these guys for the vile things they call me. Ten years ago, I would have been right beside them, throwing rocks at someone who said some of the things that I do.

They don't understand, and I understand that they can't, and won't, unless the Holy spirit leads them out of that same religious prison I was in. I certainly don't equate myself with Jesus, but He explained it well when He said, "They don't know what they are doing."
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Can I tell you a little story about that?

A friend had awful problems with lust, and he started repeating that verse. Sometimes fifty times a day, he related to me. And it brought him right through that mess. I adopted the same tactic, and it has worked for me. And, I never used to be a verse-quoting person. So, I advertise it now in my signature.
Well, thank you. I'm not there though. I can say God counts my faith in Christ as righteousness. And I am very grateful for that because it is only by faith in Him that I have ever gotten better about anything or ever begun to see any victory over my enemies. Maybe He will let me see what you have seen that makes you able to say it. I am so grateful I won't pay for my sins and they won't be held against me and that I have a way to Him even when I do sin in my heart. But I am not where you are. Not where I was either though, so that's good!
 
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It reminds me when my kids do wrong, they cry and start beating themselves up. Its like their whole world collapses.

I just hug them and tell them, look you made a mistake but I still love you. I will love you no matter what, even if one day you decide you hate me.

If course my kids tell me, mom I could never hate you.

And I respond, then why do you think I could ever stop loving you.

Why did I answer like that, because before I had kids and I rebelled against God and ran from Him. I had a dream that I continued down a path of selfishness and seeking only my own pleasure. Eventually I didn't care about anything and ended up murder my family. I work up with the vision of my blood stained hands and a twisted me laughing as blood and destruction rained down...

My heart was convicted and I gave God control of my life. Not because I was afraid of punishment but I was made aware of the destruction I could cause by cutting my own path.

I fell down on my knees and prayed. Heartbroken, condemning myself, feeling worthless. God found me and filled my heart with joy and told me His love was eternal.

Dreams can be warnings not to walk down paths of temptation or the can be inspired messages to encourage and bless others around us. Or could be a way for our minds to process our day or our hearts and minds...

Perhaps that is why we should not let the sun set on our anger but pray and forgive others.

Don't know if any of that makes sense..
Perfect sense.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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BTW, don't hold it against some of these guys for the vile things they call me. Ten years ago, I would have been right beside them, throwing rocks at someone who said some of the things that I do.

They don't understand, and I understand that they can't, and won't, unless the Holy spirit leads them out of that same religious prison I was in. I certainly don't equate myself with Jesus, but He explained it well when He said, "They don't know what they are doing."
Yes, I agree. I don't hold it against them. I don't hate them, even though I have had to avoid them for now.

Do you know, you've hit on what my problem is in not being able to say, I am the righteousness of God. It sounds and seems to me like I would be equating myself with God. Reading where you said you don't equate yourself with Jesus made it clear to me why I couldn't say it...
 
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There is no verse that says we are the righteousness of GOD. Willie thinks 2 Corinthians 5:21 does say that, but inwardly he knows that it really doesn't. IMO that's why he's giving you the run around.
Gosh, how MUCH of Heaven you could have right now..... if only you would let yourself.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
When I was first shown my sinfulness, thirty seven years ago, I cried on my bed for three solid hours. And because I was steeped in legalism (CoC) I was baptized out of pure fear of burning in a Hell.

Today, when I go wrong, I almost feel joy at the Spirit pointing it out, and I can often hardly wait for the chance to go try to straighten things out with a brother or sister, absolutely thrilled at the opportunity to do so.

THAT is the huge difference in being CONVICTED, and being reminded that I am God's kid, and that I need to let it show more in my walk so that He will be more glorified than He has been by some of the stuff I had been doing.
Legalism is harsh and I am sorry that the word convict is your trigger word for the abuse you suffered under that false doctrine.

The word itself is not evil...just what you have built up around the word.

Convict and condemn are not the same thing....if you come strongly against the word condemn the I agree whole heartedly that God does not condemn people, but he definitely convicts them.

If God let people get away with hurting other children, would he be just?

No, that is why God convicts people when they transgress against others and His law of love and worship.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Yes, I agree. I don't hold it against them. I don't hate them, even though I have had to avoid them for now.

Do you know, you've hit on what my problem is in not being able to say, I am the righteousness of God. It sounds and seems to me like I would be equating myself with God. Reading where you said you don't equate yourself with Jesus made it clear to me why I couldn't say it...
I prefer to say God armed me with a breastplate of righteousness to protect me. It is not my righteousness that I wear ( that wouldn't hold up against a lump noodle) no God clothed me in His righteousness.

My enemies can find holes in my life, but they are left speechless when they realise whose armor I am wearing.

So I Say instead.,"I am clothed in the righteousness of God through Christ Jesus redeeming work on the cross"