The key to the Pre-Trib Rapture:

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Evmur

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You say the devil is at present bound ... when did that happen?

Paul talks about him, Peter talks about him, James and John talk about him so he wasn't bound then
 
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far out man

When He comes in the clouds every eye shall see Him, there is no secret coming, no secret rapture .... but He does come to reign, He is Lord of both Heaven and Earth.
Rev 14 is not the coming on horses.

Neither is 1 thes 4 or mat 25.

Rapture is pretrib.
Coming for war on horses is postrib.

According to the bible
 

Truth7t7

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You say the devil is at present bound ... when did that happen?

Paul talks about him, Peter talks about him, James and John talk about him so he wasn't bound then
Please provide my quote when responding, common courtesy, thanks
 

Truth7t7

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You say the devil is at present bound ... when did that happen?

Paul talks about him, Peter talks about him, James and John talk about him so he wasn't bound then
Satan Is "Currently Bound", As The Saints "Currently Reign" (In The Spiritual Realm), And This (Symbolic) 1,000 Years Ceases At The Second Coming, Immediately After The Tribulation.

Satan is bound from one specific purpose (Deceive The Nations) this isnt general deception, or all evil on earth as many Millennialist falsely claim, its (Deceive The Nations) to the final battle as clearly interpreted in Rev 20:7-8 & Rev 16:12-15 below, just prior to the second coming.

(Scripture Interprets Itself, Before Your Eyes)

Revelation 20:3KJV
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

As is "Clearly Seen" (Deceive The Nations) is to battle, the seal and binding of Satan is seen in the 6th Vial, Rev 16:12 that must be poured out, then he is loosed to (Deceive The Nations)

Revelation 20:7-8KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 16:12-15 below, is a "Parallel" teaching of Rev 20:7-8, the 6th vial is poured out, Satan is loosed.

(The Deception) is devils going forth to the Kings of the Nations, to gather them to battle, the 6th vial below was the binding of Satan in Rev 20:3, from this one specific purpose (Deceive The Nations) to battle, as verse 15 is the (Second Coming)

Rev 16:12-15KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
 

Evmur

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Rev 14 is not the coming on horses.

Neither is 1 thes 4 or mat 25.

Rapture is pretrib.
Coming for war on horses is postrib.

According to the bible
Revs 14 is wrath and is post rapture. Tribulation is persecution and is pre rapture "in the world you will have tribulation"
 

Evmur

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Satan Is "Currently Bound", As The Saints "Currently Reign" (In The Spiritual Realm), And This (Symbolic) 1,000 Years Ceases At The Second Coming, Immediately After The Tribulation.

Satan is bound from one specific purpose (Deceive The Nations) this isnt general deception, or all evil on earth as many Millennialist falsely claim, its (Deceive The Nations) to the final battle as clearly interpreted in Rev 20:7-8 & Rev 16:12-15 below, just prior to the second coming.

(Scripture Interprets Itself, Before Your Eyes)

Revelation 20:3KJV
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

As is "Clearly Seen" (Deceive The Nations) is to battle, the seal and binding of Satan is seen in the 6th Vial, Rev 16:12 that must be poured out, then he is loosed to (Deceive The Nations)

Revelation 20:7-8KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 16:12-15 below, is a "Parallel" teaching of Rev 20:7-8, the 6th vial is poured out, Satan is loosed.

(The Deception) is devils going forth to the Kings of the Nations, to gather them to battle, the 6th vial below was the binding of Satan in Rev 20:3, from this one specific purpose (Deceive The Nations) to battle, as verse 15 is the (Second Coming)

Rev 16:12-15KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
When did this binding of Satan take place?

Paul speaks about him, Peter speaks about him, James and John speaks about him, so he was not bound then.
 

Evmur

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Rev 14 is not the coming on horses.

Neither is 1 thes 4 or mat 25.

Rapture is pretrib.
Coming for war on horses is postrib.

According to the bible
I think [pardon if I'm wrong] you agree that the great multitude which John saw in heaven dressed in white which no man could number were martyrs. John asked "who are they?" and was told "these are they who have come out of great tribulation ..."
 

Evmur

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Please provide my quote when responding, common courtesy, thanks
You's saying he was bound [only] from deceiving the nations, but Revs 20 says a mighty angel descended from heaven with a chain and cast him into the bottomless pit.
 

Truth7t7

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When did this binding of Satan take place?

Paul speaks about him, Peter speaks about him, James and John speaks about him, so he was not bound then.
Please associate your response with the (Bold Red) below, and respond to my claim, (Bold Red), will you disregard this as you have the (FIRE) at the second coming.

Many suggest Satan isnt currently bound as seen in Rev 20:3, because deception, evil is currently seen, this being the (False Claim) of those supporting a literal Millennium


Satan Is "Currently Bound", As The Saints "Currently Reign" (In The Spiritual Realm), And This (Symbolic) 1,000 Years Ceases At The Second Coming, Immediately After The Tribulation.

Satan is "Currently" bound from one specific purpose (Deceive The Nations) this isnt general deception, or all evil on earth as many Millennialist falsely claim, its (Deceive The Nations) to the final battle as clearly interpreted in Rev 20:7-8 & Rev 16:12-15 below, just prior to the second coming.

(Scripture Interprets Itself, Before Your Eyes)

Revelation 20:3KJV
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

As is "Clearly Seen" (Deceive The Nations) is to battle, the seal and binding of Satan is seen in the 6th Vial, Rev 16:12 that must be poured out, then he is loosed to (Deceive The Nations)

Revelation 20:7-8KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 16:12-15 below, is a "Parallel" teaching of Rev 20:7-8, the 6th vial is poured out, Satan is loosed.

(The Deception) is devils going forth to the Kings of the Nations, to gather them to battle, the 6th vial below was the binding of Satan in Rev 20:3, from this one specific purpose (Deceive The Nations) to battle, as verse 15 is the (Second Coming)

Rev 16:12-15KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
 

Evmur

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Please associate your response with the (Bold Red) below, and respond to my claim, (Bold Red), will you disregard this as you have the (FIRE) at the second coming.

Many suggest Satan isnt currently bound as seen in Rev 20:3, because deception, evil is currently seen, this being the (False Claim) of those supporting a literal Millennium

Satan Is "Currently Bound", As The Saints "Currently Reign" (In The Spiritual Realm), And This (Symbolic) 1,000 Years Ceases At The Second Coming, Immediately After The Tribulation.

Satan is "Currently" bound from one specific purpose (Deceive The Nations) this isnt general deception, or all evil on earth as many Millennialist falsely claim, its (Deceive The Nations) to the final battle as clearly interpreted in Rev 20:7-8 & Rev 16:12-15 below, just prior to the second coming.

(Scripture Interprets Itself, Before Your Eyes)

Revelation 20:3KJV
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

As is "Clearly Seen" (Deceive The Nations) is to battle, the seal and binding of Satan is seen in the 6th Vial, Rev 16:12 that must be poured out, then he is loosed to (Deceive The Nations)

Revelation 20:7-8KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 16:12-15 below, is a "Parallel" teaching of Rev 20:7-8, the 6th vial is poured out, Satan is loosed.

(The Deception) is devils going forth to the Kings of the Nations, to gather them to battle, the 6th vial below was the binding of Satan in Rev 20:3, from this one specific purpose (Deceive The Nations) to battle, as verse 15 is the (Second Coming)

Rev 16:12-15KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
You saying the nations are not deceived?
 

Truth7t7

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You's saying he was bound [only] from deceiving the nations, but Revs 20 says a mighty angel descended from heaven with a chain and cast him into the bottomless pit.
Is Satan Bound In Literal Chains, Does The Angel Have A Literal Key, Ace Hardware, Home Depot? :)

We clearly see an angel opening the bottomless pit at the 5th Trump below, and that guy Abaddon/Apolloyon is released, when does that take place?


Revelation 9:1-2 & 11-12
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit;
and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
 

Truth7t7

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You saying the nations are not deceived?
I clearly responded to (deceive the natoins) in that they will be deceived to battle, will the games now start :giggle:

(The Deception) is devils going forth to the Kings of the Nations, to gather them to battle, the 6th vial below was the binding of Satan in Rev 20:3, from this one specific purpose (Deceive The Nations) to battle, as verse 15 is the (Second Coming)

Rev 16:12-15KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
 

Truth7t7

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You saying the nations are not deceived?
You gave a smiley face 30 min ago, and no response, I'll post it again, don't leave me now Evmur? :giggle:

We clearly see an angel opening the bottomless pit at the 5th Trump below, and that guy Abaddon/Apolloyon is released, when does that take place?

Revelation 9:1-2 & 11-12
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit;
and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
 

Evmur

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You gave a smiley face 30 min ago, and no response, I'll post it again, don't leave me now Evmur? :giggle:

We clearly see an angel opening the bottomless pit at the 5th Trump below, and that guy Abaddon/Apolloyon is released, when does that take place?

Revelation 9:1-2 & 11-12
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit;
and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
I'm afraid we disagree ... that doesn't mean I think you are gunna be fried :LOL:

I BELIEVE that Jesus now reigns and He is Lord of both heaven and earth ... but His kingdom is not yet manifest [except to we whose spiritual eyes are open.

The prayer is "Thy kingdom come Thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven" that prayer will be answered in the Millennium. People preach "believe the kingdom of heaven is at hand" then they subtract the kingdom.

...the devil knows it, Hitler boasted that his 3rd reich would last a 1, 000 years, then he set about murdering those to whom the kingdom belong.
 

Truth7t7

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I'm afraid we disagree ... that doesn't mean I think you are gunna be fried :LOL:

I BELIEVE that Jesus now reigns and He is Lord of both heaven and earth ... but His kingdom is not yet manifest [except to we whose spiritual eyes are open.

The prayer is "Thy kingdom come Thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven" that prayer will be answered in the Millennium. People preach "believe the kingdom of heaven is at hand" then they subtract the kingdom.

...the devil knows it, Hitler boasted that his 3rd reich would last a 1, 000 years, then he set about murdering those to whom the kingdom belong.
Thanks for the response, we disagree no problem

Please answer my question below in (Bold Red)

We clearly see an angel opening the bottomless pit at the 5th Trump below, and that guy Abaddon/Apolloyon is released, when does that take place below?

Revelation 9:1-2 & 11-12
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit;
and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
 

Evmur

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Thanks for the response, we disagree no problem

Please answer my question below in (Bold Red)

We clearly see an angel opening the bottomless pit at the 5th Trump below, and that guy Abaddon/Apolloyon is released, when does that take place below?

Revelation 9:1-2 & 11-12
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit;
and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
It is not related to the angel who comes down from heaven with a chain to bind the devil.

Trying to get 2 christians to agree on anything in Revelations is a lifetime job. best to go by open scriptures.
 

Truth7t7

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It is not related to the angel who comes down from heaven with a chain to bind the devil.

Trying to get 2 christians to agree on anything in Revelations is a lifetime job. best to go by open scriptures.
You asked several questions in the past hours, I answered every one presented, now it's your turn.

You avoided answering my question below, I will try again.

We clearly see an angel opening the bottomless pit at the 5th Trump below, and that guy Abaddon/Apolloyon is released, when does that take place below?

Revelation 9:1-2 & 11-12
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit;
and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
 

Evmur

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... you didn't answer if the nations were no longer deceived, but no, we have to disagree amicably. I say there is to be a 1, 000 year reign of Christ on earth you say no.
 

Hevosmies

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The Bible can be misunderstood and poorly divided even by well-read people. It happens. It's a complicated book in my honest opinion. Have you considered that Revelation is divided up into parallel teachings?

Seems plausible, but it doesn't exactly say where each teaching ends and another begins nor does it expressly state this is the case, but there is good evidence to suggest it is so.

In any case, keeping in step with the rest of the New Testament, the rapture occurs post-great tribulation at the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Ever wonder how it's possible for two sober minded and intelligent people to look at the same texts and come to two vastly different conclusions? In case of the rapture doctrine, it's usually because of biases. People form their interpretation around single ideas that aren't clearly stated.

Someone, somewhere, wanted the rapture to be pre-trib so he created a doctrine and deceived the world with it.

I'll just stick with Matthew 24:29-31 and trust Jesus.
The way I see eschatology is a wasteland of theology, really.

Its interesting to me but I flipflop on it back and forth. It has done so much damage to Christianity recently, ever since the 1800s the false predictions of Jesus' return has diminished the credibility of the Church. We lookin like straight bozos because of Harold Campings and the like!

Ive made a whole long post about it one time, going thru all the different eschatological views and the holes I find in them. NO SYSTEM is airtight, thats the problem.

Im with you on that btw, if you just go with the simple words of Jesus in the gospel, He comes back and judges people thats it. We need to just be ready for the return, HOWEVER it occurs. Thats whats more important.
 

Truth7t7

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... you didn't answer if the nations were no longer deceived, but no, we have to disagree amicably. I say there is to be a 1, 000 year reign of Christ on earth you say no.
I will end response in conversation, you have been asked questions and refuse to engage in open dialogue on your belief, your eschatology is (False)

1. You have refused to acknowledge that Jesus Christ returns in fire, numerous amounts of scripture showing this fact, Luke 17:29-30, 2 Thess 1:7-8 examples

2 You refuse to answer the simple question of when the 5th Trump takes place in Rev 9:1-2, and the angel opens the bottomless pit

3. You have associated Hitler with the 1,000 years seen in Revelation 20:1-7

4. You teach that Jesus Christ is going to rule from Jerusalem (On This Earth) amongst mortal humans, Jesus Warned his followers against this teaching as seen in Matthew 24:23-27 "Go Not Forth" "Believe It Not" seen below

Jesus Christ Warns Of (The Man Of Sin/The Antichrist) Seen Below, "Go Not Forth" "Believe It Not"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.