The key to the Pre-Trib Rapture:

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TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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The star which fell from heaven is not the great angel who descended from heaven.
Agreed. (y)

While they both likely refer to angels, "FALL" is a negative, whereas "DESCEND" is NOT.







[again, for the readers: I believe "MID-trib" is at the "5th Trumpet / 1st Woe unto the earth" i.e. Rev9:1 (and Rev12:12,9)]
 

Absolutely

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100%

Antichrist comes first and with him comes the great tribulation for he will oppose everything god so called and all worship of god. This will mean the great persecution we are warned to expect. He will try to stamp out all religion.

Then he will sit in the temple and declare that he is himself God.

It is at THAT point the Lord returns and slays him by the brightness of His appearing and the breath of His mouth.

So the Lord returns to END Antichrist's career.
...all at the end of the trib.

....with the saints...not for them.
Rev 19 vividly depicts that.
 

Absolutely

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*
The hosses in 14 is not the tribulation, tribulation comes from man, the horses are God's wrath

The church is the Bride, not the bridal attendants, the Bride does not need to seek entrance to the marriage feast, it's in her [and the Grooms] honour. Moreover the the foolish maidens did not gain entrance into the feast, the kingdom, so they were not in heaven.
Jesus said " pray that you may be counted WORTHY To escape the things about to come upon. The earth and stand b 4 the son of God"
Worthy.
He told believers to pray for worthiness.

It is not automatic according to Jesus
 

Absolutely

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Also with the 10 virgins the 5 wise were worthy and The 5 foolish were not worthy.
 

Major

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Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving The Heavens And Earth By Fire

There Wont Be A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, After The Second Coming, Immediately After The Tribulation.

Matt 24:29-30 Immediately After The Tribulation, (They Shall See The Son Of Man)

Yes You Deny That When Jesus Christ Appears, Reveals, Comes, Immediately After The Tribulation, That There Will Be Fire In Judgement, As Shown Below.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved
, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God
, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Someone needs to go back and re-take Christianity 102 Basics.
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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Someone needs to go back and re-take Christianity 102 Basics.
Unable To Attend, I Have A Severe Allergy Relating To The False Teachings Of John N. Darby And Adulterer C.I. Scofield, Better Known As Dispensationalism :)
 

Hevosmies

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Unable To Attend, I Have A Severe Allergy Relating To The False Teachings Of John N. Darby And Adulterer C.I. Scofield, Better Known As Dispensationalism :)
You do know that the millennium isnt exactly a doctrine of dispensationalism? historical premillennialism has been there since day one.

Some Church fathers believed in it and they werent dispensationalists
 

TMS

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Mar 21, 2015
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Pretrib rapture is easy to defend.

My starting place is the rapture verses, Jesus first miracle, and the bride/ groom component
Postrib rapture has no such dynamic.
Postrib teachers NEVER go there.

Postrib rapture has no verses.
I have offered the rapture challenge and no postrib rapture adherent has ever found one postrib rapture verse.

Maybe you have one???

I invite you to post one.
i have quoted many verses to show how Jesus will come in Glory and that the pre trib rapture is not founded in the bible.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Jesus said that a terrible time of trouble would come upon the world just before His return and that it would be more intense than any other in the history of this world.
Matthew 24:21, 22. "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved."
We can be like the huge trees that have lived through harsh time and become strong in the storms of life by putting their roots deep around rocks and stand when these times come or just presume that Jesus will take us away, so we can relax about it all.
Noah prepared by building an ark to go through the storm.

"At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." Daniel 12:1.

Are we delivered before or after the storm????????

The Bible describes the 144,000 as "they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Revelation 7:14.

Jesus made the following statement immediately after mentioning the tribulation: "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Matthew 24:22. If the elect were not in the world during the great tribulation, they would not need the days to be shortened!

The children of Israel were not saved from Egypt before the plagues fell, but afterward. God demonstrated His love and power by preserving them in Egypt through the ten plagues. In the same way, the righteous will be in the world when the seven last plagues fall (Revelation 16), but God will preserve them.

God never promises that our lives will always be easy. Christ prayed to His Father for His disciples, "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil [one]." John 17:15. Likewise, in 2 Timothy 3:12 Paul states, "All that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." Paul also told a group of disciples that "We must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." Acts 14:22.

i have given a few Bible verses and reasons why the popular and appealing theory is not true. I know it is hard to except but it may help you to be ready.
 

TMS

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Mar 21, 2015
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Joh 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
Joh 2:5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
Joh 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
Joh 2:7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
Joh 2:8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

i'm not sure how the miracle above proves pretrib. It tells me to obey Jesus.
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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i have quoted many verses to show how Jesus will come in Glory and that the pre trib rapture is not founded in the bible. Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Well let's take a moment to carefully consider this verse and why it cannot possibly have anything to do with the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints.

1. Behold He cometh with clouds: are these clouds of water vapor or is "clouds" used as a metaphor for the clouds of saints and angels surrounding Christ at His Second Coming? Jude uses the word "saints" for those who come with Christ (which is literally holy ones and could apply to both saints and angels) but Paul includes the mighty angels of Christ in 2 Thessalonians. Why clouds? Because they are all dressed in white (Rev 19) and radiating light (1 Cor 15), thus from a distance they appear as radiant clouds.

So if the saints are coming with Christ at this time, it should be obvious that He came for them at the Resurrection/Rapture some time before His Second Coming. Therefore just this phrase shoots down your misconception about no Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

2. And every eye shall see Him: this is a reference to all the kindreds of the earth who will wail -- in fear of His wrath -- because of Him (see Rev 6). So this is definitely not a reference to the saints on earth at the Rapture, who will rejoice at His coming. Furthermore genuine Christians are a minority at all times, not ALL the kindreds of the earth. So this phrase further shoots down your theory.

3. And they also which pierced Him: even though it was a Roman soldier who actually pierced the side of Christ after His death, this is a reference to the Jews who caused Him to be crucified and then pierced, since "they (not he) shall look upon Him whom they pierced". So this is a reference to unbelieving Jews at the Second Coming of Christ. So now this phrase shoots down your theory.

4. And all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him: Jude gives us the reason why they will wail because of Him: To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. So every phrase and clause in this verse totally refutes any nonsense about the Second Coming being identical to the Resurrection/Rapture.

Which means that you and others who hold to this erroneous view will need to go back to square one and totally revise your eschatology.
 

Evmur

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The angel unlocks the bottomless pit at the 5th Trump in rev 9:1-2 and satan is loosed (During The Great Tribulation) as seen in Rev 9:11 same exact event of satan being loosed in Rev 20:7-8 (During The Great Tribulation)

The book of Revelation is seen in "Parallel" teachings of same events,not chronologically as dispensationalism and millennialist teach.

There will be no 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth, a fairy tale of man

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire, immediately after the tribulation.

Revelation 9:1-2 & Revelation 20:7-8 is the same event in a "Parallel" teaching

Revelation 9:1-2 & 11KJV
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Revelation 20:7-8KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
After the 1, 000 years ... so there will be a 1, 000 years
 

Evmur

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You falsely teach Jesus Christ will return to this earth, and rule in Jerusalem amongst mortal humans.

Its your teaching Jesus Christ warned his followers about.

The deceptive part on a literal Millennial Kingdom on earth is, many teach Jesus Christ is going to return and take a physical throne of David in Jerusalem, "Amongst Mortal Humans"?

Beware Of (The Man Of Sin/The Antichrist)!

Jesus Christ Warns Of (The Man Of Sin/The Antichrist) Seen Below, "Go Not Forth" "Believe It Not"

(For There Shall Arise False Christs And False Prophets)

The Antichrist And False Prophet, Showing Signs And Wonders!

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
You do believe in the rapture when Jesus will come in clouds of glory and every eye shall see Him. He will gather His church and He will begin to reign. All your nay saying doesn't count for a tin of beans, it will happen.

The prayer will be answered "Your kingdom come Your will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven"

He reigns now among mortal men so what's your beef? the only difference is now He reigns in secret [so far as the world is concerned] but then He will reign manifestly.

The 1, 000 years is the time when He will put all His enemies under His feet, the last enemy to be defeated is death. BILLIONS WILL BE SAVED ... according to you billions will perish

But the rebels will be punished with all the punishments spoken about in Revelations.

Christ's 2nd coming is not the end of the world, it is the end of the age.
 

Absolutely

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i have quoted many verses to show how Jesus will come in Glory and that the pre trib rapture is not founded in the bible.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Jesus said that a terrible time of trouble would come upon the world just before His return and that it would be more intense than any other in the history of this world.
Matthew 24:21, 22. "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved."
We can be like the huge trees that have lived through harsh time and become strong in the storms of life by putting their roots deep around rocks and stand when these times come or just presume that Jesus will take us away, so we can relax about it all.
Noah prepared by building an ark to go through the storm.

"At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." Daniel 12:1.

Are we delivered before or after the storm????????

The Bible describes the 144,000 as "they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Revelation 7:14.

Jesus made the following statement immediately after mentioning the tribulation: "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Matthew 24:22. If the elect were not in the world during the great tribulation, they would not need the days to be shortened!

The children of Israel were not saved from Egypt before the plagues fell, but afterward. God demonstrated His love and power by preserving them in Egypt through the ten plagues. In the same way, the righteous will be in the world when the seven last plagues fall (Revelation 16), but God will preserve them.

God never promises that our lives will always be easy. Christ prayed to His Father for His disciples, "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil [one]." John 17:15. Likewise, in 2 Timothy 3:12 Paul states, "All that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." Paul also told a group of disciples that "We must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." Acts 14:22.

i have given a few Bible verses and reasons why the popular and appealing theory is not true. I know it is hard to except but it may help you to be ready.
""" have quoted many verses to show how Jesus will come in Glory and that the pre trib rapture is not founded in the bible.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Jesus said that a terrible time of trouble would come upon the world just before His return and that it would be more intense than any other in the history of this world.
Matthew 24:21, 22. "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved."""

We both believe he comes in glory after the trib.

The Bible describes the 144,000 as "they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Revelation 7:14.

Jesus made the following statement immediately after mentioning the tribulation: "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Matthew 24:22. If the elect were not in the world during the great tribulation, they would not need the days to be shortened!
i have quoted many verses to show how Jesus will come in Glory and that the pre trib rapture is not founded in the bible.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Jesus said that a terrible time of trouble would come upon the world just before His return and that it would be more intense than any other in the history of this world.
Matthew 24:21, 22. "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved."
We can be like the huge trees that have lived through harsh time and become strong in the storms of life by putting their roots deep around rocks and stand when these times come or just presume that Jesus will take us away, so we can relax about it all.
Noah prepared by building an ark to go through the storm.

"At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." Daniel 12:1.

Are we delivered before or after the storm????????

The Bible describes the 144,000 as "they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Revelation 7:14.

Jesus made the following statement immediately after mentioning the tribulation: "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Matthew 24:22. If the elect were not in the world during the great tribulation, they would not need the days to be shortened!

The children of Israel were not saved from Egypt before the plagues fell, but afterward. God demonstrated His love and power by preserving them in Egypt through the ten plagues. In the same way, the righteous will be in the world when the seven last plagues fall (Revelation 16), but God will preserve them.

God never promises that our lives will always be easy. Christ prayed to His Father for His disciples, "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil [one]." John 17:15. Likewise, in 2 Timothy 3:12 Paul states, "All that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." Paul also told a group of disciples that "We must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." Acts 14:22.

i have given a few Bible verses and reasons why the popular and appealing theory is not true. I know it is hard to except but it may help you to be ready.
I can accept VALID components .
No problem at all.
However you need to reevalute a few things.






"""The Bible describes the 144,000 as "they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Revelation 7:14.

Jesus made the following statement immediately after mentioning the tribulation: "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Matthew 24:22. If the elect were not in the world during the great tribulation, they would not need the days to be shortened! """

You arbitrarily, out of no where assigned the 144k to the innumerable number in rev 7.

1 ....The 144k are tribal Jews. Strict lineage and born Jews.
2.... The Jews are ushered to safety. ...the elect...they alone get the special protection to be raptured later in rev 14.
3... ONLY the 144k are sealed against the flying scorpions. ...and they are believers already sealed by the Holy Spirit at salvation...yet get another seal SPECIFICALLY against the stings.
4... The ac murders via decapitation EVERYONE ON THE PLANET refusing the mark. (bingo..the innumerable number we see before the throne in rev 7)
the 144k are JEWISH (STRICTLY AND EXCLUSIVELY JEWISH) FIRSTFRUITS.
JEWISH FIRSTFRUITS.

I got more also if you like.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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You do believe in the rapture when Jesus will come in clouds of glory and every eye shall see Him. He will gather His church and He will begin to reign. All your nay saying doesn't count for a tin of beans, it will happen.

The prayer will be answered "Your kingdom come Your will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven"

He reigns now among mortal men so what's your beef? the only difference is now He reigns in secret [so far as the world is concerned] but then He will reign manifestly.

The 1, 000 years is the time when He will put all His enemies under His feet, the last enemy to be defeated is death. BILLIONS WILL BE SAVED ... according to you billions will perish

But the rebels will be punished with all the punishments spoken about in Revelations.

Christ's 2nd coming is not the end of the world, it is the end of the age.
Sorta.
He comes WITH his church..not for it.....after the trb.
 

Absolutely

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Well let's take a moment to carefully consider this verse and why it cannot possibly have anything to do with the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints.

1. Behold He cometh with clouds: are these clouds of water vapor or is "clouds" used as a metaphor for the clouds of saints and angels surrounding Christ at His Second Coming? Jude uses the word "saints" for those who come with Christ (which is literally holy ones and could apply to both saints and angels) but Paul includes the mighty angels of Christ in 2 Thessalonians. Why clouds? Because they are all dressed in white (Rev 19) and radiating light (1 Cor 15), thus from a distance they appear as radiant clouds.

So if the saints are coming with Christ at this time, it should be obvious that He came for them at the Resurrection/Rapture some time before His Second Coming. Therefore just this phrase shoots down your misconception about no Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

2. And every eye shall see Him: this is a reference to all the kindreds of the earth who will wail -- in fear of His wrath -- because of Him (see Rev 6). So this is definitely not a reference to the saints on earth at the Rapture, who will rejoice at His coming. Furthermore genuine Christians are a minority at all times, not ALL the kindreds of the earth. So this phrase further shoots down your theory.

3. And they also which pierced Him: even though it was a Roman soldier who actually pierced the side of Christ after His death, this is a reference to the Jews who caused Him to be crucified and then pierced, since "they (not he) shall look upon Him whom they pierced". So this is a reference to unbelieving Jews at the Second Coming of Christ. So now this phrase shoots down your theory.

4. And all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him: Jude gives us the reason why they will wail because of Him: To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. So every phrase and clause in this verse totally refutes any nonsense about the Second Coming being identical to the Resurrection/Rapture.

Which means that you and others who hold to this erroneous view will need to go back to square one and totally revise your eschatology.
rev 14 HAS A GATHERING during the gt.

Postrib rapturists have NEVER thought that through.

So simple.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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i have quoted many verses to show how Jesus will come in Glory and that the pre trib rapture is not founded in the bible.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Jesus said that a terrible time of trouble would come upon the world just before His return and that it would be more intense than any other in the history of this world.
Matthew 24:21, 22. "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved."
We can be like the huge trees that have lived through harsh time and become strong in the storms of life by putting their roots deep around rocks and stand when these times come or just presume that Jesus will take us away, so we can relax about it all.
Noah prepared by building an ark to go through the storm.

"At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." Daniel 12:1.

Are we delivered before or after the storm????????

The Bible describes the 144,000 as "they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Revelation 7:14.

Jesus made the following statement immediately after mentioning the tribulation: "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Matthew 24:22. If the elect were not in the world during the great tribulation, they would not need the days to be shortened!

The children of Israel were not saved from Egypt before the plagues fell, but afterward. God demonstrated His love and power by preserving them in Egypt through the ten plagues. In the same way, the righteous will be in the world when the seven last plagues fall (Revelation 16), but God will preserve them.

God never promises that our lives will always be easy. Christ prayed to His Father for His disciples, "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil [one]." John 17:15. Likewise, in 2 Timothy 3:12 Paul states, "All that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." Paul also told a group of disciples that "We must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." Acts 14:22.

i have given a few Bible verses and reasons why the popular and appealing theory is not true. I know it is hard to except but it may help you to be ready.
"""I have quoted many verses to show how Jesus will come in Glory and that the pre trib rapture is not founded in the bible.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Jesus said that a terrible time of trouble would come upon the world just before His return and that it would be more intense than any other in the history of this world.
Matthew 24:21, 22. "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved.""""

We both believe Jesus returns in power and war fiercely to destroy the ac and his army.....Postrib

The rapture verses you purposely leave out make the case for the correct view...PRETRIB RAPTURE.

Of course you do not look at them or study outside you view.

Sad you purposefully do that