The key to the Pre-Trib Rapture:

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Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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you said i was mixing up two events. The coming of Jesus in great glory. and the secret rapture.
i find no evidence for the secret rapture. it is a fairy tale invented by people in the past.

But the reason why you think they are a separate thing is because the wrath of God is not poured out on the saved.
The final judgements are different to the everyday trials in that men create these for each other, but the example of Israel in Egypt is not that different and the flood is not that different. We have examples from the past where God poured out His wrath on mankind and saved His people through the trials. Jesus is my ark to come through the trials.

Can God save His people through the trials? Can Gods people be protected from Gods wrath? The blood above the door (the pass over)....

As Christians that are confident in Jesus and confident in His salvation they are not fearful of the coming trials. No fear in Gods perfect love.

You are contradicting yourself in that Gods people can not be here for the final wrath and yet people will be saved in that final wrath.
The only ones saying " secret rapture" are postribbers.
Again, why leave out verses in an honest discussion????????
 

Hevosmies

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Sep 8, 2018
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True.
mortals left.
I agree.
They all will have the mark...according to the bible
Bruh... If all the mortals left got the mark of the beast, then the millennium will be EMPTY. There will be nothing but resurrected saints in there, which leaves no one to rebel at the END of the millenium.

(Going with the premillennialism gimmick here)
 

TMS

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Mar 21, 2015
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The only ones saying " secret rapture" are postribbers.
Again, why leave out verses in an honest discussion????????
Sorry, what should refer to the event as? The flashing away, the taking away.
Help me out..
I have given many bible verses for each point i make.
 

oyster67

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May 24, 2014
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The key to the Pre-Trib Rapture:

B red Y ;)
 

TMS

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Mar 21, 2015
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The mark of the beast
The coming in glory
The millennium
The final events in revelation ar all connected. If you get one wrong, the whole picture has to change. The interpretation of each event needs to fit the others... it can become a huge mess if one is wrong.
I have shown you that the futurism interpretation was invented by Jesuits to take the heat off the catholic church. It is not founded in the bible. Be honest and admit that futurism is a scam.
 

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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Sorry, what should refer to the event as? The flashing away, the taking away.
Help me out..
"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

The words 'caught up' are translated from the word 'harpadzo' which is defined as ' properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively – like someone seizing bounty (spoil, a prize); to take by an open display of force.'

It is the same word used when Paul was 'caught up' to the third heaven and when Philip was caught away from the eunuch. It is also used to describe the Male Child being 'snatched up to God and His throne.

Since you are asking this question, it would infer that you are not familiar with it. Yet you argue against this event? In order for you to do that you would have to be very familiar with it.

It is the Lord's appearing to gather the church, which some call the rapture. Paul mentions it in 2 Thess.2:1 when he says, "Concerning the coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him." It is also mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:50-53. This event is what the Lord told us to always be watching and ready for, because His appearing is imminent like a thief in the night. The gathering of the church is not related to Matthew 24:30-31 or Rev.1:7, those scriptures are referring to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.
 

TMS

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Mar 21, 2015
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"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

The words 'caught up' are translated from the word 'harpadzo' which is defined as ' properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively – like someone seizing bounty (spoil, a prize); to take by an open display of force.'

It is the same word used when Paul was 'caught up' to the third heaven and when Philip was caught away from the eunuch. It is also used to describe the Male Child being 'snatched up to God and His throne.

Since you are asking this question, it would infer that you are not familiar with it. Yet you argue against this event? In order for you to do that you would have to be very familiar with it.

It is the Lord's appearing to gather the church, which some call the rapture. Paul mentions it in 2 Thess.2:1 when he says, "Concerning the coming of our Lord and our being gathered to Him." It is also mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:50-53. This event is what the Lord told us to always be watching and ready for, because His appearing is imminent like a thief in the night. The gathering of the church is not related to Matthew 24:30-31 or Rev.1:7, those scriptures are referring to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.
The verse you quoted is referring to the coming of Jesus and it is the when He raises the dead and comes in glory.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 

TMS

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Mar 21, 2015
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Please give me evidence that shows that the coming in glory as Matt 24, 25 states, Rev 1 and the coming in Thes 4, 5, Rev 19, and the other verses are seperate events?
 
Aug 3, 2018
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Be honest and admit that futurism is a scam.
Where Luke 21:32 says, "till ALL be fulfilled," consider that this must necessarily include items which a verse in this passage had just spelled out (already previously in the passage, namely in v.24), which items (together) are conveying that of a lengthy duration of time--three items:

[V.24]

1) "And they shall fall by the edge of the sword..." (referring to the events surrounding 70ad, some 40 yrs later);

2) "... and they shall be led away captive into all the nations: ..." (... consider the idea being conveyed by the word "captive"...); and

3) "... and Jerusalem shall be TRODDEN DOWN OF the Gentiles UNTIL the TIMES of the Gentiles [which started in 606/5bc... with Neb as "head of gold" (i.e. Gentile domination over Israel)] be FULFILLED."




V.32's "TILL ALL be fulfilled" must necessarily INCLUDE these three ^ "of-lengthy-duration" items (that v.24 had already just mentioned in this text).


Consider carefully the "chronology" issues in Scripture (pertaining to this topic). It does little good to merely lump a bunch of Scripture passages together apart from grasping what their contexts are conveying (as in this example of text, above).
 

Absolutely

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Bruh... If all the mortals left got the mark of the beast, then the millennium will be EMPTY. There will be nothing but resurrected saints in there, which leaves no one to rebel at the END of the millenium.

(Going with the premillennialism gimmick here)
So you are saying the bible is incorrect that all take the mark?
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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Please give me evidence that shows that the coming in glory as Matt 24, 25 states, Rev 1 and the coming in Thes 4, 5, Rev 19, and the other verses are seperate events?
Acts 1 " like manner" ( you need it to be "totally different manner")
Rev 19 the bride becomes the wife IN HEAVEN, DURING THE GT.
REV 14 Jesus on a cloud.
( cannot POSSIBLY be on horses that blacken the sky)
Mat 24 " noah BEFORE THE FLOOD"
( YOU NEED IT AFTER!!! YOU NEED HIM TAKEN AFTER!!!)

Lot taken b 4 judgement ( you need him taken out AFTER JUDGEMENT)

Baby jesus REMOVED PRE JUDGEMENT ( YOU NEED HIM REMOVED POSTJUDGEMENT)

1 THES 4...The dead in christ rise FIRST.
Pssssst....that means the living FOLLOW THE DEAD!!!!
NOW COMPARE rev 14( hello, hello,hello....You have the dead GATHERED AFTER THE REV 14 gathering)....game, set, match...big time.

The ac kills all without the mark.
Not some.... few ...many.... But ALL WITHOUT THE MARK.

BUT MAT 25 Gets the biggest emmy for postribbers trying to refit the components of the parable. That parable alone forever destroys postribbers great hope of attending the guillotines.

Oh wait. Postribbers DO ATTEND.

That is what happens when one ACTUALLY reads their bible.

I Have zero workbooks.

Nobody showed me acts 1 rev 14 rev 19. MAT 24 " BEFORE THE FLOOD", or the ac killing all without the mark.
I simply read it.

I get a belly laugh when i hear " i used to be pretrib then i studied the bible..."

That is the joke of the century
They skip verses purposefully to fit that THOROUGHLY DEBUNKED nonsense into some bizarre great hope of suffering and running from the ac's assasins. In fact my challenge has NEVER BEEN MET.
NO postrib rapture verses. All you guys have NEVER produced a single verse.!!!!!

No postrib rapturist will read my verses.
None will.
I just destroyed postrib rapture.

Postribs are unaware.
 

Absolutely

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The verse you quoted is referring to the coming of Jesus and it is the when He raises the dead and comes in glory.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
No
You guys made that up along with the riderless horses descending from heaven for those raptured to jump onto.
No such dynamic.
You guy fabricated that out of thin air. (no pun intended)

The horses , millions of them, HAVE RIDERS already on them IN HEAVEN.
( YOU NEED THAT COMPONENT REMOVED FOR YOUR THEORY TO WORK)
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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The mark of the beast
The coming in glory
The millennium
The final events in revelation ar all connected. If you get one wrong, the whole picture has to change. The interpretation of each event needs to fit the others... it can become a huge mess if one is wrong.
I have shown you that the futurism interpretation was invented by Jesuits to take the heat off the catholic church. It is not founded in the bible. Be honest and admit that futurism is a scam.
UH pretribs believe all that.

You left out the rapture.
I can prove it is separate.
Hands down, decisively, prove it.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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Sorry, what should refer to the event as? The flashing away, the taking away.
Help me out..
I have given many bible verses for each point i make.
Have you actually read it in context?

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

" when they say PEACE AND SAFETY..."

DID you read that?????

You really believe the setting of the end of the gt with the earth destroyed as well as 2/3 of mankind with people praying to die...A WORLD WIDE CURSE AND JUDGEMENT....IS PEACE AND SAFETY?????????

POSTRIB rapture is one of the biggest deceptions of the century.

Pure deception.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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Perception


Because the perception of the postribber is " pretrib is ruled out" , " I refuse to look at their verses"

The grand canyon opening of deception opens up.

You guys better wake up.

Even the foolish virgins knew Jesus was coming

Could be this year.

If nothing stops the swamp who controlls biden, we could be speaking chinese real soon.
They told him to his face he is weak.
 
Mar 12, 2015
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The verse you quoted is referring to the coming of Jesus and it is the when He raises the dead and comes in glory.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
And that is why you err. 1 Thess.4:16-17 is the event of the gathering of the church, not the event of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.

1 Thess.4:13-18 and 1 Cor.15:50-53, are referring to the gathering of the church

Matt.24:30-31 and Rev.1:7, are referring to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.

Until you understand that these are two different events, which take place at different times and for different purposes, you will be in error regarding end-time events.

Revelation 19:6-8 shows the bride/church as already being in heaven attending the wedding of the Lamb. Then in verse 14, it shows the church following Christ out of heaven riding on white horses and wearing the same fine linen that she will have received at the wedding. Furthermore, we also have the following information regarding Christ returns to the earth to end the age:

In order to follow the Lord out of heaven, you would already have to be in heaven.

"They (beast and ten kings) will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

The words 'and with Him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers' would also demonstrate that the church will be returning with Him to the earth to end the age to confront the beast and his armies.

"Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

When the Lord comes, Ten thousands of His saints will come with Him, which is supported by the previous scripture when those who will have been resurrected, changed and caught up, will be following Christ out of heaven on white horses.

The basic principle remains in that, because Jesus already suffered God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely, God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer. We are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath and therefore must be gathered from the earth prior to said wrath. Regarding this, Jesus warns us to watch ourselves so that we do not go back into the world to willfully living according to the sinful nature, so that the time of God's wrath which will be coming upon all who live on the face of the whole earth, will not close on us like a trap.

Furthermore, as a promise to all those who overcome and endure patiently, the Lord says that He will keep us 'out of' the hour of trial, that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth. The 'hour of trail' is another name for the Day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath.

If you understood this basic principle and the severity of God's coming wrath, you would not continue to believe and teach that the Lord is going to put His bride/church through the time of His wrath. Anyone on the earth during that time will be exposed to the results of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the plagues that the two witnesses bring.
 

Hevosmies

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Sep 8, 2018
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POSTRIB rapture is one of the biggest deceptions of the century.

Pure deception.
Thats hilarious cause pre-trib rapture is the most recent. Didache from the 1st century = post-trib. All church fathers = post-trib, all creeds, churches, whatever = post-trib.

ONly people who are pre-trib are some charismaniacs and baptists, along with a few KJVonly cultists and hyper dispies.

Historically? No one. The only thing yall got is the pseudo-ephraim gimmick. You are preaching something no one has ever heard of and instead of answering my question you said "So you think Bible is lying" no i dont. I asked yo, if AC kills everyone and rapture/resurrection is pre-trib. WHO is in the flesh in the millenium? PRAY TELL.