The Law Debacle Resolved
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There are two options here. Either people see the ideas but refuse to acknowledge the ideas being presented or they are so firmly fixed in their minds, the ideas translate completely with all the attached concepts.
JW's have an equally entranched world view. Mention the words and they have their version of everything. As long as the model is bigger than the conversation, no matter alternatives, their ideas revert back to the original whole. One guy said after coming out after 10 years he just could not believe he believed what he did. It was just subtle remodelling the word so everything had a different slant.
It has taken me 4 years of slow drip feeding love centric words and ideas, to slowly bring people round to Jesus centric and overcoming situations in faith in my house group. So it does not suprise me you have a hard time taking on board obedience as working out grace, because the anti-pharisee mindset is a common idea preached in evangelical circles, which is the enemy, or being religious etc. Until you see Jesus sees the good and avoids judgementalism and simple labels, it is easy to get knocked off balance.
The reason I am here so much is because this all is so important and I did not understand how far off base the culture was. The Lord will not let me rest. But maybe you do not see this and it does not mean that much to you, it is just theological points and not your whole existance.
JW's have an equally entranched world view. Mention the words and they have their version of everything. As long as the model is bigger than the conversation, no matter alternatives, their ideas revert back to the original whole. One guy said after coming out after 10 years he just could not believe he believed what he did. It was just subtle remodelling the word so everything had a different slant.
It has taken me 4 years of slow drip feeding love centric words and ideas, to slowly bring people round to Jesus centric and overcoming situations in faith in my house group. So it does not suprise me you have a hard time taking on board obedience as working out grace, because the anti-pharisee mindset is a common idea preached in evangelical circles, which is the enemy, or being religious etc. Until you see Jesus sees the good and avoids judgementalism and simple labels, it is easy to get knocked off balance.
The reason I am here so much is because this all is so important and I did not understand how far off base the culture was. The Lord will not let me rest. But maybe you do not see this and it does not mean that much to you, it is just theological points and not your whole existance.
K
[h=3]Faith Triumphs[/h]5 Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace[SUP][a][/SUP] with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]2 [/SUP]We have also obtained access through Him by faith[SUP][b][/SUP] into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And not only that, but we also rejoice in our afflictions, because we know that affliction produces endurance, [SUP]4 [/SUP]endurance produces proven character, and proven character produces hope. [SUP]5 [/SUP]This hope will not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
E
there is no options, and no one is confused.
Some people are trying to drive their car to heaven, or weld their own bead to get a wage
Some people saw the train, climbed aboard in faith , and are letting God get them to heaven, and while they are on their way, Offering a helping arm to anyone who needs help to climb on board (work)
Some people are trying to drive their car to heaven, or weld their own bead to get a wage
Some people saw the train, climbed aboard in faith , and are letting God get them to heaven, and while they are on their way, Offering a helping arm to anyone who needs help to climb on board (work)
K
Nothing ever gets resolved in Law threads because people will continue with their preconceived and taught false allegations toward others instead of actually listen to what the others say.
Law threads are nothing but strife causes as some think no standards still apply, others think all the law still applies, and then yet others believe some standards and the morals of God still apply.
Law threads are nothing but strife causes as some think no standards still apply, others think all the law still applies, and then yet others believe some standards and the morals of God still apply.
P
Hebrews 8 : 1-13
Now this is the main point of the things that we are saying: We Have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the Heavens, 2) a minister in the sanctuary and the true tabernacle,which the Lord, not man, set up. 3) For every High priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifies. Therefore it is necessary that this priest also have something to offer.4) For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests that offergifts according to the law.5) They serve in a sanctuary that is an example and the shadow of the heavenly one, as Moses was instructed by God when he was about to make the tabernacle,"See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain." 6) But Now he has obtained amore excellent ministry, because He is the Mediator of a better convenant, which was establishedon better promises. 7) For if that first convenant had been faultless, then no occasion would have been sought .8) For Finding Fault with them, GOD Says: "Surely the days are coming, says the Lord, when i will make a new convenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 9) not according to the convenant that I made with their fathers in the day when i took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt; because they did not continue in my covenant, and i rejected them,says the Lord, 10) This is the covenant that i will make with the house of Israel after those days , says the Lord: I will put my Laws into their minds and write them on their hearts; I will be their God, They shall be my people.11) No Longer shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother saying 'Know The Lord,' for all shall know me from the least of them to the greatest.12 For I will be merciful toward their unrighteousness, and their sins and their LAWLESS deeds I will remember no more."
Now this is the main point of the things that we are saying: We Have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the Heavens, 2) a minister in the sanctuary and the true tabernacle,which the Lord, not man, set up. 3) For every High priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifies. Therefore it is necessary that this priest also have something to offer.4) For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests that offergifts according to the law.5) They serve in a sanctuary that is an example and the shadow of the heavenly one, as Moses was instructed by God when he was about to make the tabernacle,"See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain." 6) But Now he has obtained amore excellent ministry, because He is the Mediator of a better convenant, which was establishedon better promises. 7) For if that first convenant had been faultless, then no occasion would have been sought .8) For Finding Fault with them, GOD Says: "Surely the days are coming, says the Lord, when i will make a new convenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 9) not according to the convenant that I made with their fathers in the day when i took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt; because they did not continue in my covenant, and i rejected them,says the Lord, 10) This is the covenant that i will make with the house of Israel after those days , says the Lord: I will put my Laws into their minds and write them on their hearts; I will be their God, They shall be my people.11) No Longer shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother saying 'Know The Lord,' for all shall know me from the least of them to the greatest.12 For I will be merciful toward their unrighteousness, and their sins and their LAWLESS deeds I will remember no more."
K
Please do not throw false allegations on me about the Apostle Paul because that is the first thing the Holy Spirit had me study on.
Paul did not teach a different gospel nor did he do away with what our Lord Jesus taught, as he upheld and expounded on it.
The bad teaching is trying to teach as if Paul did away or made what Jesus taught not for all believers, that is a very bad misconception.
Again the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-20) says that everything the Lord commanded/taught is for all believers !!!
K
I did not single anybody out so I do not know why you are acting like I did, however the truth remains that we all follow under one of those three categories.
It is not assumption either as all one has to do is go back and read through the thread and see how some do still continue to place false allegations on others and state things they never said.
Again I did not pinpoint or call out anybody directly, so I would appreciate it if you would not treat it like I did !!!
It is not assumption either as all one has to do is go back and read through the thread and see how some do still continue to place false allegations on others and state things they never said.
Again I did not pinpoint or call out anybody directly, so I would appreciate it if you would not treat it like I did !!!
1 Corinthians 2:6-7 (KJV)
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Sorry, but that's how your worldly psychology, philosophy and sociology sounds to me.
I'm also sorry you feel you have to play Holy Spirit in bringing people around to Jesus centric...something.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Sorry, but that's how your worldly psychology, philosophy and sociology sounds to me.
I'm also sorry you feel you have to play Holy Spirit in bringing people around to Jesus centric...something.
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