The Law Debacle Resolved

[MarcR]

There seems to be a flock of folks coming in to argue anything else rather than to discuss teh simple teachings of the Word..

Remember the solution given in the OP......Do what Jesus teaches and did.

This flock is against these teachings in favor of keeping this thread in an uproar.

Now either deny we should do as did our Lord, and hear what He teaches or say why this is not a proper approach to satisfy both Grace detractors and law detractors, for neither are 100% correct with constan bickering on the two, for the two coexist in Jesus Christ. Hear Him, for He speaks of both as valid...........

I believe that everyone on the forum, who is a believer, agrees that we should indeed do what Jesus teaches and what He did. I do not believe that there is general agreement on what He taught, or even consistent interpretation on what He did.

For example: I believe that Jesus teaches that nothing we do by our own effort matters to God in terms of our relationship with Him.

You seem to not agree with my understanding. This is only one area of difference.

 

[JaumeJ]

I have been aware of this since the moment the Holy Spirit first entered into me. The indignation then and now is great how man teaches his traditions a commandment from God, no matter how he tries to disguise it. G

God is not a Baptist, a JW, Catholic, nor any other named denomination under the umbrella of Christianity. By virtue of any group requiring a name to separate it from another denomination is enough to know it is not of the Word, only strongly influenced by It. Do not think I do not beliee there are beleivers in ever walk of life in this world, but the Good Shepherd will separate the sheep from the goats inHis time.

None of the above have any bearing on the truth of the solution, but you may argue the solution if you are so disposed. I see nothing wrong with obeying Jesus Christ, doing as He did, and learning from Him. This should satisfy all, except of course any who are contentious,.

I saw your OP statement. I say again that there is no consensus on what Jesus taught; or even general agreement on what He did. If there were such agreement, this thread would never happen.

 

[ember]

Well I did not write either one of those quotes and don't know who did, but at the same time neither one of them says works save or maintain salvation.

Yes nobody should be resorting to using such unedifying tactics when responding to another, and I can attest that I have had a few toss those unedifying and belittling tactic's at me as well. This is not a one sided issue as there are those from different sides that do this to one another, and I even called for this unedifying behavior to stop in the past.

To no avail it did not work and will never work as long as they continue to believe they are doing nothing wrong !!!

I did not say you wrote those things...you obviously did not write those things

However, much of this thread and similar threads contain such posts and that is what we are taking a stand against

I told you who wrote them...in fact, one is from the op of this very thread!!! coffee anyone?

the other contains a link to that thread and the person who wrote it

No one said it is a one sided issue...if it were, we would all be off doing something else...I'm doing something else while continuing to come back here in response to this thread

I have provided the proof you asked for...that is all...there are many such posts

I am not saying you have said what is in those posts. I am pointing out what some are saying

 

[ember]

this post was totally neglected

This is not a Christan chat. What has happened to all of you?

well, it was your post

I have had posts and in fact, recently, an entire thread gone sideways because of certain people

just get up and try again!

some of the worst offenders have left the building...this thread is as long as it is because people feel deeply and this is an issue that really, determines how we think and behave

this is not exactly a chat thread though...it is a Bible thread and the most heated room in the place

I understand what you are saying....no one has to come into this thread if they don't want to

you are one of the gentler people here...unfortuneatley, there are some who are genuinely invested in this discussion and so it may go on for some time unless something unforeseen happens

 

[ember]

Find the reference to that allegation. The blind, deaf and dumb is in reference to anyone who does not understand the reference to the Bible lesson......this will always be true, it is not harsh, especially when referencing people who attack the Biblical referenc without understanding the usage in the quote. It is very easy, and at times, very devious to quote partly from a post without referencing the origins of it. If people do not understand the Biblical teachigs of being children of obedience, I am afraid if they continue to confuse the debate by attacking being children of obedience without understanding it, they are exactly that, whoever they may be. Alos, it was a general comment, no specific person in the thread was named, hoever if someone takes offence, I would be suspect.

yes. Indeed.

It was a general comment about those who disagree with your approach.

That would include me.

I would think you might notice that since I am quite sure that was your intent.

You were not writing on facebook...you were writing that to us folks here, in this forum and in this particular thread

Perhaps you might consider writing as though you thought others here might be believers also even if we do not agree with you

 

[KennethC]

I did not say you wrote those things...you obviously did not write those things

However, much of this thread and similar threads contain such posts and that is what we are taking a stand against

I told you who wrote them...in fact, one is from the op of this very thread!!! coffee anyone?

the other contains a link to that thread and the person who wrote it

No one said it is a one sided issue...if it were, we would all be off doing something else...I'm doing something else while continuing to come back here in response to this thread

I have provided the proof you asked for...that is all...there are many such posts

I am not saying you have said what is in those posts. I am pointing out what some are saying

The proof I asked for was showing where somebody said works save or maintain salvation, and neither one of those quotes said that.

It is not my responsibility to find those posts, but it is the responsibility of those who make those claims to prove it.

Without the proof it is just an unsubstantiated claim !!!

 

[ember]

Some folks here are using my name, and distorting my posts to third parties. I only discover this when reading these possts as quotes in replies to them in that I have them, yes more than one, on ignore for this very reason.

Now, I would appreciate the folks, yes, more than one, who make reference to me by name, to third parties to stop this small practice. That is unless of course I do it with your name to third parties......

I posted that the remarks I quoted were from you.

they were.

You wrote it...no one else. so, maybe stop writing that way...it's offensive...who do you think you are writing to?

you refer to the children of disobedience quite a few times...are those folks who disagree with your opinions?

if not, then you might correct yourself, because right now, that is what you have most of us believing

 

[ember]

Some folks here are using my name, and distorting my posts to third parties. I only discover this when reading these possts as quotes in replies to them in that I have them, yes more than one, on ignore for this very reason.

Now, I would appreciate the folks, yes, more than one, who make reference to me by name, to third parties to stop this small practice. That is unless of course I do it with your name to third parties......

Listen. No one is USING your name....quoting YOU and what YOU said...is not using your name

what a truly strange notion. People here quote others frequently and repeatedly, yet no one gets upset about that

That, is how things are on a forum

You are no more special than the next person and you will be quoted and have been quoted over and over and over

Again, it's normal

 

[ember]

You cannot serve God and mammon. We are plainly taught to be children of obedience. Actually, for Ephesians and from my own experience, once the Holy Spirit enters a person, and he is convinced of Salvation in Jesus Christ, he cannot stop himself from learning from Jesus, obeying as taught by Jesus, and living as best possible as did Jesus.

There is only one Jesus Christ, and there can never be one as He, that is perfect. However, our Father hs begun a work in each of us, and it will be finished on that Day. Yes, we will be perfected, for the promise is "You shall be perfect for I am perfect, says the Lord." Why not cooperate a little on the way? Defiance is a sin.

Truly..this is a non-arguement

Of course the Spirit of God within us will glorify God by doing good works...so what are you saying?

 

[ember]

I am getting the impression here that we are talking about 3 different things and getting the conversations mixed up.

Kefa

yeah....you may have something there...there are definately some crossed wires!!

however, it seems there may be some give and take...for which we should be grateful!!

 

[ember]

I believe that everyone on the forum, who is a believer, agrees that we should indeed do what Jesus teaches and what He did. I do not believe that there is general agreement on what He taught, or even consistent interpretation on what He did.

For example: I believe that Jesus teaches that nothing we do by our own effort matters to God in terms of our relationship with Him.

You seem to not agree with my understanding. This is only one area of difference.

I think you nailed it!!

 

[ember]

JaumeJ;2320416

I have been aware of this since the moment the Holy Spirit first entered into me. The indignation then and now is great how man teaches his traditions a commandment from God, no matter how he tries to disguise it. G

uh...everyone who is saved has the Holy Spirit indwelling them...but He only has one truth...so...wouldn't you agree that not one single one of us has the entire truth or complete understanding?

God is not a Baptist, a JW, Catholic, nor any other named denomination under the umbrella of Christianity. By virtue of any group requiring a name to separate it from another denomination is enough to know it is not of the Word, only strongly influenced by It. Do not think I do not beliee there are beleivers in ever walk of life in this world, but the Good Shepherd will separate the sheep from the goats inHis time.

this should not be an excuse to talk down to others, don't you agree? it seems you are teaching here, rather then discussing and most folks come here to discuss...that may be a problem for someone who thinks they should teach...I'm not saying it is your problem, per se, but your threads do seem much more like teaching than discussion, so, when you get discussion instead, you don't seem to like it very much because you often object

None of the above have any bearing on the truth of the solution, but you may argue the solution if you are so disposed. I see nothing wrong with obeying Jesus Christ, doing as He did, and learning from Him. This should satisfy all, except of course any who are contentious,

argue the solution...wouldn't it be better and more truthful to state DISCUSS? for your information, most of us here would agree that we should obey Jesus...but we don't throw that at someone as though they would never dream of it themself!

Do you regard someone who questions what you write as contentious or perhaps see yourself as knowing better?

again, this forum is for discussion...so you cannot expect a thread to be one sided...that just does not happen

 

[Utah]

this is exactly what I just got done saying, reading into what another said and making it say other then what the person actually stated.

Lol. Ken, you do this all the time. You did it to me twice today. Not only that, you do this all the time. Did I mention you do this all the time? Yes, you do this all the time. Lol.

 

[RickyZ]

probably because I hold Scripture above 'common sense' and 'rationalism'...you should try it sometime yourself.

Besides, I gave you a whole wall of scripture. All the scripture, not just one side of it. You should try looking at both sides sometime for yourself.

 

[KennethC]

Lol. Ken, you do this all the time. You did it to me twice today. Not only that, you do this all the time. Did I mention you do this all the time? Yes, you do this all the time. Lol.

When and where as I usually almost always pose it as a question, which is not stating a person said something they didn't.

That is the difference between making false blanket statements of stating somebody said something they didn't, and posing it as a question instead to make sure proper understanding. If it was a blanket statement then I apologize as that is never my intent, for like I said it is usually posed as a question when I post !!!

 

[JGIG]

The Law Debacle - Resolved by GRACE \o/


An excerpt:

The choice isn't really Law or Grace;

the choice is really Law or LIFE \o/!
​

Grace brings us to Life;

Grace enables us to walk in Life;
​

Walking in the Life of Christ produces His Fruit, which we bear.
​

(See Rom. 7, Gal. 2 and 5, Tit.2)​

Law arouses sin;

​Law accuses and brings death;​

Walking in Law produces fruits of the flesh.
​

(See Rom. 7, Gal. 2 and 5, Tit.2)

​

Grace and peace to you all,
-JGIG

If your point here is to respond to the actual OP, go and read it. I fyou are going off on your own , then go ahead, but do not post as though your are responding to the OP. Lef folks know you are on a new subject.

As for your stating "Law or Life," consider the curse of the law, death, has ben abolished by Jesus Christ on the Cross, making the law something no longer to fear for it cannot kill anymore, not those who are truly in Christ.. God bless you.

It wasn't the curse IN the Law that is taken away in Christ, but the curse OF the Law.

Scripture is clear: Righteousness from God comes apart from the Law (see Rom. 3) and the Law brings death (see Rom. 7,8, and 2 Cor. 3). The Law brings wrath (Rom. 4), yet you preach Law to those who have died to and been released from the Law.

I did respond to the actual OP.

Here and in a new thread. Take it or leave it. It's completely your choice .

Grace and peace,
-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

We are warned in the Word not to take away nor to add to God's Word; it is a sin. Yes, even for those living in grace, sin still exists.

And where are the sins of the believer in Christ according to the Scriptures?

-JGIG

 

[KennethC]

And where are the sins of the believer in Christ according to the Scriptures?

-JGIG

Repented and confessed of sins are cast away never to be used/imputed on us again, but those two words repented and confessed are the key.

Apostle Paul warns Apostle Timothy twice in those two epistles of becoming impure again do to sin, and Paul states in Colossians 1:22-23 that we will be presented blameless and without spot (remission of sins) only if we continue in the faith and not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

 

[JGIG]

I do know what I am talking about thanks be to the Holy Spirit of God, as I have over 6 years of in depth bible study and over 20 years all together. Including that of early church history and some doctrinal starting points, and am currently in the third year of prophecy studying.

I am still learning new things everyday as we all are but to deny the morals of God would mean that people could live however they want including to continue to be deliberately sinful and still end up with eternal life. The Word of God completely refutes that kind of thinking and says anybody who teaches the gospel or grace to allow lewdness is in apostasy.

Therefore if God's grace and the gospel of Christ does not allow lewdness, then there are morals that apply and love is the greatest and even mentioned greater then faith by Paul. Because all hangs on love !!!

2 To Timothy my true son in the faith:
Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies.

Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith.

5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk.

7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm. (from 1 Tim. 1)​

 

[Gr8grace]

Repented and confessed of sins are cast away never to be used/imputed on us again, but those two words repented and confessed are the key.

Apostle Paul warns Apostle Timothy twice in those two epistles of becoming impure again do to sin, and Paul states in Colossians 1:22-23 that we will be presented blameless and without spot (remission of sins) only if we continue in the faith and not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

22yet He has now reconciled(Our position as believers) you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present(our experiential sanctification as believers) you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

Forever saved in our position IN Christ, but some believers have moved away from the HOPE(eternally secure) of the Gospel. and will NOT be presented blameless, they will have SHAME before the judgement seat of Christ.

New American Standard Bible
Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.

Many believers have lost hope in the Gospel, and do not have confidence in their salvation.........they think it is possible to lose salvation.

They are still saved, but they will experience shame from moving away from the security Christ offers them. They will not be presented holy and blameless. They will be saved as if through fire, because all their human good(EVIL) will be burned up.

It will be the same for the believer that took grace as a license to sin........saved, but as if through fire.