The Law Debacle Resolved
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They will never capture the meaning, though it is quite simple, and worse yet, true...
Hands up... don't shoot! 
According to your explanation, from what I have read on this thread, (that's poetic LOL) the Grace police are against the law, and the law police are not against grace, just the grace police.
According to your explanation, from what I have read on this thread, (that's poetic LOL) the Grace police are against the law, and the law police are not against grace, just the grace police.
This is where long-suffering and patience must reign. Your posts will be constantly perverted by those who do not understand the Word. Jesus Christ is the Word, and though many claim to hear and understand Him, I am afraid they are the ones doing the twisting to suit the popular teachings of men as commandment from God. It is sad, very sad. Keep up the good fight. It is not a fight as in this age, it is agains the darkness of the enemy. These are not strong words nor deceitful in any manner, yet though understood and passed on from the Word, these too will be perverted by many.
Hey! Don't you believe you should obey the law? Oh, right, to obey with the understanding of just how Jesus teaches us, and after He destroyed the curse of the law on the cross, we no longer need fear death because we are obedient. This is liberty, amen.
The grace in which we who obey live would be license were we not to obey. Are you in grace or license?
The grace in which we who obey live would be license were we not to obey. Are you in grace or license?
The Sanhedrin is upon us, beware lest we be thrown out of the church, the building that is. How can anyone judge a person to this condemnation. The Lord Jesus' life shines brightly in his posts and many other folks here. Do those folks judge you?? I think not. Get a holy grip on the understanding of teh posts of others, and live love, the love of God. Love your enemies, even if they are only perceived as such, and God will be in your words producing fruits of the Holy Spirit.
Telling any brother he is not in grace when he has witnessed consistently he is because of his faith is not what most would describe as love, it is a judgment, and from having read Ken's posts it is a very wrong one. Remember with the judgment you mete out you will be judged. I do not judge you, but I am able to say rightly that you are wrong in disparaging the name of a brother in Christ.
God scripture sounds good, but what you must seek when reading the Word or people posting from understanding the Word is the understanding given by the Holy Spirit.
I see the scripture being used as a tool for justifying wring understanding in the Holy Spirit all of the time. This is an example of the written code killing, as is taught us.
Without the Holy Spirit, what is being share be it via quotes only or understanding of the Word only will not be understood by the hearer (reader.) So, seek understanding in the Holy Spirit.
I see the scripture being used as a tool for justifying wring understanding in the Holy Spirit all of the time. This is an example of the written code killing, as is taught us.
Without the Holy Spirit, what is being share be it via quotes only or understanding of the Word only will not be understood by the hearer (reader.) So, seek understanding in the Holy Spirit.
Many folks have begun to reign without the King being present, and this should not be so. No saint in this age should set himself up as a judge of the faith of others, but all should judge for himself what is right according to our Master's teaching.
Judgment will be handed over to the saints in God's time, as is written, and not before. Again, anyone judgin such now is reigning without Jesus present.
Judgment will be handed over to the saints in God's time, as is written, and not before. Again, anyone judgin such now is reigning without Jesus present.
Let's be fiar. You could be asked to show posts to the contrary. Many times I do not go back and post all of my sources due to being pressed for time and having difficutly reading. Today has been a very good day. I think it is the cooler weather, finally. Praise Jesus Christ. Jesus did not always name a prophet, the only one I can think of is Isaiah, however He was always quoting prophets. Of course He was repeating His own words. God bless you always in Jesus Christ...
Logical arguments. In all philosophies, theologies there is a basic assumption that structures all the following conclusions.
I think the fundamental point by the grace is enough camp has been revealed. We are doomed to be slaves to sin because sin is derived from impure thoughts and good deeds we wish we did but failed.
If you accept this premise, that however the grace of God works in your heart as a sinner you can never walk in righteousness, accept you are lost. Now the flip side of the argument is people who say at any point in their lives say they are walking in righteousness are hypocrites because it is impossible, whether you know the sin or not, so they must be pharisees.
But Paul though he admits we can walk in the flesh says in the Spirit we are slaves to righteousness. The image is of continual refreshing, cleansing, transformation, going from one state of glory to another.
Now the counter argument is if you say I am righteous, with past sin forgiven and you walking correctly, you are denying the need of Christ. But Jesus said something different. You will find you are a "good" person, but this is totally founded on the vine, the life of the Spirit within you. If you get tempted to believe it is you alone who now is righteous, you will slowly wither and die.
So fundamentally the standard for sin is crucial to your view. The strange thing is the law is actually less harsh than this idealism, so those who hold the standard this way are actually creating a new law of condemnation of their hearts.
Paul preached real grace, accepting the failures and seeing yourself in the light of Jesus's love. We sin because we do not see the sin, the hurt the damage and do not care. Listen to your heart when you hurt another and you will begin to understand.
Now I have a real understanding how love and forgiveness work, because I live it. Jesus commands us to live it as well. Whether this is perfection, we are called not to judge, but to repent when convicted of sin. If the law shows us failure, surely our hearts should listen, not the letter but to what the Spirit teaches us about the issue.
Why do you condemn yourselves over issues the Lord is sad about but does not call sin?
I think the fundamental point by the grace is enough camp has been revealed. We are doomed to be slaves to sin because sin is derived from impure thoughts and good deeds we wish we did but failed.
If you accept this premise, that however the grace of God works in your heart as a sinner you can never walk in righteousness, accept you are lost. Now the flip side of the argument is people who say at any point in their lives say they are walking in righteousness are hypocrites because it is impossible, whether you know the sin or not, so they must be pharisees.
But Paul though he admits we can walk in the flesh says in the Spirit we are slaves to righteousness. The image is of continual refreshing, cleansing, transformation, going from one state of glory to another.
Now the counter argument is if you say I am righteous, with past sin forgiven and you walking correctly, you are denying the need of Christ. But Jesus said something different. You will find you are a "good" person, but this is totally founded on the vine, the life of the Spirit within you. If you get tempted to believe it is you alone who now is righteous, you will slowly wither and die.
So fundamentally the standard for sin is crucial to your view. The strange thing is the law is actually less harsh than this idealism, so those who hold the standard this way are actually creating a new law of condemnation of their hearts.
Paul preached real grace, accepting the failures and seeing yourself in the light of Jesus's love. We sin because we do not see the sin, the hurt the damage and do not care. Listen to your heart when you hurt another and you will begin to understand.
Now I have a real understanding how love and forgiveness work, because I live it. Jesus commands us to live it as well. Whether this is perfection, we are called not to judge, but to repent when convicted of sin. If the law shows us failure, surely our hearts should listen, not the letter but to what the Spirit teaches us about the issue.
Why do you condemn yourselves over issues the Lord is sad about but does not call sin?
And the Lord said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.
So NT grace must be the same personage as the OT God? Then the law of sin death is not God's law, making God's law a law of Grace. Right? The law of sin and death is man's law and not of grace. Is this right?
So NT grace must be the same personage as the OT God? Then the law of sin death is not God's law, making God's law a law of Grace. Right? The law of sin and death is man's law and not of grace. Is this right?
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The authentic act
So many have felt legalism matters. If you do things, make sure it is for the right reasons. Listen to the lie. Unless the act is done for the right reasons it is not a good act. What matters firstly is good acts of kindness. The enemy will work to destroy and stop such things, undermine those who do them, and turn everything into only self interest and doing things for defended calculated reasons. This is why the idea of random acts of kindness came about.
Righteousness is a great thing. It is not bad, even when done for the wrong reasons. What is bad is doing it for show destroys the purpose or source of the acts, and is a denial of why righteousness works, driven by love. Jesus did not criticise the acts of the pharisees just they had their reward in the recognition they received.
Jesus said unless your righteousness exceeds that of the pharisees and saducees you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. It is a simple statement. Unless you do righteousness for righteousness sake, ie driven from the heart out of love, it is not part of the kingdom. He did not say this to say you cannot achieve it, but that this is what it is like to be in the kingdom.
I do not see any of those talking obedience are saying other than this reality is possible, and you will find you are walking in it already.
The problem is the grace camp are saying the measuring of righteousness is too low, ie hypocracy, so are accusing brothers and sisters of sin which does not exist. So the argument is not as it might appear at all, in fact obedience followers are preaching real grace, transforming the heart into real righteousness and power.
So many have felt legalism matters. If you do things, make sure it is for the right reasons. Listen to the lie. Unless the act is done for the right reasons it is not a good act. What matters firstly is good acts of kindness. The enemy will work to destroy and stop such things, undermine those who do them, and turn everything into only self interest and doing things for defended calculated reasons. This is why the idea of random acts of kindness came about.
Righteousness is a great thing. It is not bad, even when done for the wrong reasons. What is bad is doing it for show destroys the purpose or source of the acts, and is a denial of why righteousness works, driven by love. Jesus did not criticise the acts of the pharisees just they had their reward in the recognition they received.
Jesus said unless your righteousness exceeds that of the pharisees and saducees you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. It is a simple statement. Unless you do righteousness for righteousness sake, ie driven from the heart out of love, it is not part of the kingdom. He did not say this to say you cannot achieve it, but that this is what it is like to be in the kingdom.
I do not see any of those talking obedience are saying other than this reality is possible, and you will find you are walking in it already.
The problem is the grace camp are saying the measuring of righteousness is too low, ie hypocracy, so are accusing brothers and sisters of sin which does not exist. So the argument is not as it might appear at all, in fact obedience followers are preaching real grace, transforming the heart into real righteousness and power.
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