The Law Debacle Resolved

[oldthennew]

sometimes we refuse to hear or to confess the messes that we make,
even though our Father lays them on the table so that we maybe able
to make amends...

Faith is all about love and love triggers Faith when we are humble,
one of our jobs is to find in ourselves what is true and what is false...
this can only help us to love more and walk more like our Heavenly Father...
what gifts He honors us with and teaches us how to use, if we so choose -
it is truly an over-whelming...journey for us all....

 

[KennethC]

Hey! Don't you believe you should obey the law? Oh, right, to obey with the understanding of just how Jesus teaches us, and after He destroyed the curse of the law on the cross, we no longer need fear death because we are obedient. This is liberty, amen.

The grace in which we who obey live would be license were we not to obey. Are you in grace or license?

I believe in the "Perfect law of liberty through Christ" which is God's moral law that is written in our hearts and minds, but I do not believe in following the written ordinances of the Mosaic law as they are not upheld in the NT.

I am under God's grace which comes by faith through Christ !!! AMEN !!!

 

[KennethC]

And yet you constantly say you must work to maintain your salvation.

Again another false allegation that I have never once said !!!

 

[KennethC]

The word 'ABIDE' means to 'hold to' or to 'acknowledge', so saying abiding in Christ every day is indicating, IMO, you appear to think similar to some on here who believe salvation has a revolving door

Reading your posts, I think you do side more with the op...I think you are being very selective with your words and rather guarded with your answers

I remember posting in an op you started some weeks back, and you were definately all for the observance of the OT...saying ALL the words of God are still in effect

I'm wondering what's going on exactly...I don't think you are mixed up or unsure...certainly not from what I remember of the op I mentionned

Actually the Greek meaning for abide is to REMAIN !!!

 

[KennethC]

Please don't miss "Just between the 2 of you." this is a brother who sins against us personally. We do not walk around and point out every persons sins.

Read 1 Corinthians 5 from Paul and I think you will get a different understanding, as Paul is not speaking of somebody being sexual immoral personally against us.

For he is speaking of not allowing sinful behavior of some to continue in the congregation, for others will see this and thank it is okay for them to continue in their sinful ways as well. Their leaven (sinful behavior) will leaven a whole bunch (others) !!!

 

[KennethC]

Where are we commanded to keep Jesus commands?

Holman Christian Standard Bible
John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commands.
( If you love me, If I live in you, If my spirit is in you....You will find my yoke/commands light.)

I don't see anything here that says "You MUST keep the commands."

Kefa

Matthew 28:16-20


The Great Commission


16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

[Gr8grace]

Read 1 Corinthians 5 from Paul and I think you will get a different understanding, as Paul is not speaking of somebody being sexual immoral personally against us.

For he is speaking of not allowing sinful behavior of some to continue in the congregation, for others will see this and thank it is okay for them to continue in their sinful ways as well. Their leaven (sinful behavior) will leaven a whole bunch (others) !!!

That man was disturbing Pauls local assembly. He was sinning against Paul personally because he was disturbing the people who Paul had charge over(he was not there personally, but he had charge over them). Not only that.....................the people were bragging about this man.

Ken, in this point of time, the man was probably taking His step mom to the pagan temple and "worshiping" in the pagan temple with his fornication. He(a believer) was bragging about it to the people(believers) in the Corinthian church. And the majority of believers in the church were arrogant and bragged about this man. It was upsetting the local assembly.

How do you think Paul knew about it?........."It has been reported...."


New Living Translation
You are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame. And you should remove this man from your fellowship.

English Standard Version
And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.

Berean Study Bible
And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been stricken with grief and have removed from your fellowship the man who did this?

Berean Literal Bible
And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, so that the onehaving done this deed might be taken out of your midst!

New American Standard Bible
You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.


Never..............the....................less Paul addressed these people as SAINTS.

 

[KennethC]

We should not add things to scripture as Paul is talking about in this chapter of not allowing sinful behaviors such as sexual immorality seem to be acceptable in the congregation.

He says to cast these people out and shun them if they do not want to give up those sinful ways, for if we allow them to stay they will leaven others, meaning they will influence others to think sinful behavior is acceptable.

Also nowhere does Paul call these sexual immoral people saints !!!

 

[KennethC]

We should not add things to scripture as Paul is talking about in this chapter of not allowing sinful behaviors such as sexual immorality seem to be acceptable in the congregation.

He says to cast these people out and shun them if they do not want to give up those sinful ways, for if we allow them to stay they will leaven others, meaning they will influence others to think sinful behavior is acceptable.

Also nowhere does Paul call these sexual immoral people saints !!!

I would also add that yes it was reported to Paul which is why he came to the Corinthian church, to address all the wrong doings being done in that church. He told them they had every right to shun such people from the congregation so that they would not influence others with their bad sinful behavior.

As this was not the only issue the Corinthian church had that Paul came and addressed !!!

 

[Utah]

Again another false allegation that I have never once said !!!

So you believe in salvation through faith alone. Glad to know that.

 

[Gr8grace]

We should not add things to scripture as Paul is talking about in this chapter of not allowing sinful behaviors such as sexual immorality seem to be acceptable in the congregation.

He says to cast these people out and shun them if they do not want to give up those sinful ways, for if we allow them to stay they will leaven others, meaning they will influence others to think sinful behavior is acceptable.

Also nowhere does Paul call these sexual immoral people saints !!!

Ken, the majority were allowing this to take place and BRAGGING about it. Why did Paul not hand over everybody to satan and shut down the church.

We are all sinners and sin, why didn't Paul kick everybody out and shut the doors? Because if we keep our mouths shut,learn and don't DISRUPT service we are all welcome to stay.

We are ALL sinners and have sins in the closet..............we bring them out of the closet and disrupt those who want doctrine and sacrifice their time to learn doctrine............we get kicked out or rebuked.

 

[KennethC]

Ken, the majority were allowing this to take place and BRAGGING about it. Why did Paul not hand over everybody to satan and shut down the church.

We are all sinners and sin, why didn't Paul kick everybody out and shut the doors? Because if we keep our mouths shut,learn and don't DISRUPT service we are all welcome to stay.

We are ALL sinners and have sins in the closet..............we bring them out of the closet and disrupt those who want doctrine and sacrifice their time to learn doctrine............we get kicked out or rebuked.

You again would be adding to scripture as Paul was addressing those in the church that were walking properly to shun these others out.

The other behaviors that was addressed in the Corinthian church was women being unruly during service and such, things that was easily corrected by calling it out. Those referred to in chapter 5 are those who continued to live these sinful behaviors and had no intention of giving them up.

Nowhere does the bible say shut up about others who consider themselves believers but continue in deliberate sinful ways, it says just the opposite to call them out and expose them. (Ephesians 5:11)

 

[KennethC]

So you believe in salvation through faith alone. Glad to know that.

I believe what Ephesians 2:8-9 says that we are saved by grace "through faith in Christ".

I also believe in what the Lord Jesus Himself defined what believing in Him means in the faith from Luke 6:46-49 and John 3:16-21. Those who come to Him, hear what He says, and does it !!!

 

[Utah]

I believe what Ephesians 2:8-9 says that we are saved by grace "through faith in Christ".

I also believe in what the Lord Jesus Himself defined what believing in Him means in the faith from Luke 6:46-49 and John 3:16-21. Those who come to Him, hear what He says, and does it !!!

Do you believe that obese people who are guilty of gluttony put their salvation at risk? Does an obese person who dies at an early age due to their gluttonous sins have salvation?

 

[JaumeJ]

Why tempt a brother into judging another? You have done this before, and it is nto a good practice.

Do you believe that obese people who are guilty of gluttony put their salvation at risk? Does an obese person who dies at an early age due to their gluttonous sins have salvation?

 

[Utah]

Why tempt a brother into judging another? You have done this before, and it is nto a good practice.

Don't talk to me; you're on ignore.

 

[Gr8grace]

You again would be adding to scripture as Paul was addressing those in the church that were walking properly to shun these others out.

It amazes me how even common sense gets thrown out the door...............look close(not even close, just take off the "Glasses") He was addressing those that were PROUD and ALLOWING this. The NLT really brings this out.

1I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you—something that even pagans don’t do. I am told that a man in your church is living in sin with his stepmother.[SUP]a[/SUP] 2You are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame. And you should remove this man from your fellowship.

He was not addressing those who were "mourning in sorrow and shame" He was addressing the fact that NO ONE was mourning over this disruption in the assembly.

 

[KennethC]

Do you believe that obese people who are guilty of gluttony put their salvation at risk? Does an obese person who dies at an early age due to their gluttonous sins have salvation?

First we need to understand that not all people who are obese is do to gluttony !!!

Second what does the bible say about those who put their trust on earthly things, as in put things before God ??? It says those who do such things do not have the truth abiding in them.

The good news is that by faith in Jesus and through the guidance and help of the Holy Spirits, and those who are mature in the faith can lead these people out of their sinful behaviors.

The other thing we must take into effect is if they repented or not before they died !!!

The bible is very clear even in the NT of those who will and those who will not inherit eternal life, as Paul for one gives lists for both. We can not turn and say that certain people are saved when the bible clearly says who is not !!!

 

[atwhatcost]

I didn't get past this. You're just mad because I reported you for using bad language.

I simply no longer care what you have to say and would rather put Tabasco sauce in my eyes than waste another minute of life reading your hate-filled diatribes. Go cleanse your soul.

LOL
A. I didn't know you reported me for bad language.
B. No one told me I used bad language.
C. So, the only time you would have reported me for "bad language" is when I shortened my Uncle Butch's name to his initials? If you're going to count that as bad language, than shoot, dangit, dabnabit and Oh My Gosh is all bad language too.

The hate is you and quite a few others on this post. That's what mobs do. And then you justify it by blaming others, saying "I'm just telling the truth, some newbie might read all the way to 70+ pages and never ever ever figure out who's telling right, and doggone it I'm from Jersey so I'm supposed to have an attitude." Anything anything at all to avoid the obvious -- are you doing what God wants you to do?

Which, for the record, was the purpose of this post. And strangely it was said as something that was supposed to be agreed on -- no we don't, but we should.

My bad. I thought you had a heart for God. Apparently not, just for making sure everyone mirrors your personal beliefs.

The first time you invited me to be your friend, I didn't accept. I ad just seen you beating people over the head for something less important that this belief you now fight for. But then you were nice for a few post and I changed my mind. My first instinct tends to be right. You're a lesson learned. You're also a bully that needs a group to encourage you.

 

[RickyZ]

I ... would rather put Tabasco sauce in my eyes

You already have tobasco sauce in your eyes, that's kinda what I've been trying to point out to you