The law is not your problem.

Grace777x70 · Nov 16, 2016

This should help to know the difference between "sin" - the noun used in Romans 6:14 "sin shall not have dominion over you" and "sinning" the verb which is the action of sinning.

In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".

Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection in the flesh" one that some try to promote. This doctrine will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and ship-wreck their faith.

This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.

We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do anymore.

Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.

There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb. Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life.

Sin the noun has been quarantined in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.

Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.

"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.

The set free from sin ( the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.

The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is where we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 : BUT "in the Spirit".

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13

As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life.

This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )

gotime · Nov 16, 2016

This is the problem that you have yet to learn from Abraham:

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

You like I did for many years considered my weakness. I have learned to not do that, but to look to his Strength.

You don't realise it yet but what you are saying is God can not do what his word promises. You elevate Human weakness above the power of the Christ.

Once you stop that you will have a whole new experience. Ps I did not say I do not sin. But I did say I am unaware of sin I am committing. In other words known sin. My conception of sin is deeper than you realise and assume.

gotime · Nov 16, 2016

Ps when Paul talks about sin in Romans 7 he demonstrates what that means, and he says clearly they are sinning. They are doing what they do not what to do.

gotime · Nov 16, 2016

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Grace777x70 · Nov 16, 2016

Until we understand what sin in the flesh actually means and that "sin shall not have dominion over us because we are in the spirit and not the flesh" - we will be creating works-based mindsets such as in the supposed keeping of the law of Moses.

These supposed law-keepers actually have a very low esteem for the law of Moses and for the work of the Lord Jesus Christ. They actually do not keep the law of Moses despite their attempts in the flesh.

They will use words like "grace" and "faith" because it is Christianeze talk but it lacks the power of God for salvation because that is only found in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and that is His finished work.

The true Christian life has nothing to do with the law of Moses - we live by the life of Christ now.

The law of Moses has nothing to do with the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ - look at the word for word accounts of the true gospel being preached by Peter in Acts 10 and Paul in Acts 13 and you will see the truth of the gospel and the Law of Moses.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 16, 2016

gotime said:

This is the problem that you have yet to learn from Abraham:

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

You like I did for many years considered my weakness. I have learned to not do that, but to look to his Strength.

You don't realise it yet but what you are saying is God can not do what his word promises. You elevate Human weakness above the power of the Christ.

Once you stop that you will have a whole new experience. Ps I did not say I do not sin. But I did say I am unaware of sin I am committing. In other words known sin. My conception of sin is deeper than you realise and assume.

so you will not admit you sin, But you do not now of any sin you are committing.

You are in a dangerous place my friend.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 16, 2016

gotime said:

Paul is telling us clearly. The law can not help us overcome sin. All it can do is expose our sin. Then he admits what is true, In the flesh, He can not do what he wants, and he can't stop dong what he does not want. The law is powerless to help him do anything. Only through CHRIST can he overcome sin.

But his flesh is not removed, It is an ongoing battle for every believer. The dangerous think a believer can do is think he has got it handled. He has made it. He is ok, Because it is then when he is at most danger for a fall.

A person can do one of two things concerning the law

1. Give up and run. I can't do it so why try

2. Hide or lower the standard. I am ok, This is really not sin, I do not know of any sin I am committing, At least I am not like those people..

Both are self centered. Both lack trust in God. And both may lead to one falling away to prodigalism

gotime · Nov 16, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

The problem here is I never said I do not sin. You have assumed that. All I know is this, Since taking God at his word my life has changed and the things I used to do I do not do anymore. I still get tempted every day but I find his grace is sufficient and I no longer give into those temptations. Before temptation was something I gave into, now there is strength in Jesus to overcome every temptation that comes.

Is this so offensive to you, that Jesus can actually keep his promises and actually do them? Shall I lie and say that Christ does not keep his promises to make you feel better? God forbid. Is this where Christianity is today, that when someone testifies to the power of the blood and name of Jesus that people doubt.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Is this true or not. Either Christ makes a way out or he does not. I testify He does exactly as He says.

2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Pro 16:3 Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.

Is this true or not? I testify that it is true and God is able to direct your very thoughts.

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Is this true or not? I testify that it is true, He is faithful and will do these things and cause you to walk in his statutes.

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

You all like this text but is it true or not? I testify that God is able to make you holy and to preserve you blameless and is able to do it.

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from Sin, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Is this true or not? I testify that he is actually able to do it.

Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Is this true or not? I testify that it is true that Christ can do more than we can even imagine.

2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Is this true or not? I testify that He keeps his promise and that his power is enough.

We could keep on going, but the point is simple:

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

Do you believe that he is able to do it all that he has promised like Abraham did. Or do you consider your weakness? Do you believe in the God who calls was is not as if it were?

2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Demi777 · Nov 16, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

I never sin
heheheheehee

Grace777x70 · Nov 16, 2016

I believe in all the promises of God that are "yes and Amen in Christ" - but none of them have anything to do with keeping the law of Moses. They are all based on what Christ has already done for us that believe and have received Him.

We are saved by grace through faith in Christ alone. No additives or preservatives needed. No GMO's needed....

Keeping the law even if we water it down to make it look like it's "do-able" will never make us righteous. Only Christ makes us righteous by grace through faith in His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

We have died with Him and we have risen with Him and now sit with Him at the right hand of the Father. We are new creations in Christ which have been created in righteousness and holiness.

We will never be any more righteous than the day we received Christ and believed in Him.

gotime · Nov 16, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

Paul is telling us clearly. The law can not help us overcome sin. All it can do is expose our sin. Then he admits what is true, In the flesh, He can not do what he wants, and he can't stop dong what he does not want. The law is powerless to help him do anything. Only through CHRIST can he overcome sin.I have never said the law can help us. Christ is our only hope and only help. Paul is illustrating a slave to sin. And yes Christ is the answer to that situation.

But his flesh is not removed, It is an ongoing battle for every believer. The dangerous think a believer can do is think he has got it handled. He has made it. He is ok, Because it is then when he is at most danger for a fall.Temptation continues yes but we do not give in because of his promises to keep us. I have repeatedly lifted up Christ as the answer to our needs. I have never said that we can handle it. You are not listening. Jesus is the one who does it, it is his promises that work. Jesus is the creator of all things. He only has to speak and it is. this is why i believe his word has the power to do what He says. This is Jesus work not mine or any mans. And all may have it if they will simply usethe measure of faith which God has given them.

A person can do one of two things concerning the law

1. Give up and run. I can't do it so why try

2. Hide or lower the standard. I am ok, This is really not sin, I do not know of any sin I am committing, At least I am not like those people.I don't compare myself to other people. Jesus is our example.

3. Look at our weakness and let that dictate what is possible in Christ for you and for others.

4. Trust God to do what he says he will do. and rest in his promises in Christ Jesus which are all Yes and amen in Him.

Both are self centered. Both lack trust in God. And both may lead to one falling away to prodigalism

The first 3 lack faith in Christ. the only one that is solely based on Faith is the 4th. That is the one I testify of. Jesus is able to do all He has promised and more.

gotime · Nov 16, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Are you still without understanding? The law points out sin full stop. If you sin it condemns you as it does all of us for all have sinned. This far you know. But tell me hypothetically, If you stopped sinning would you still be breaking the law?

GandalfTheWhite · Nov 17, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

The word is clear that everything in the Bible is about Christ. So if we read about Adam, Abraham, Noah, Jacob, David etc it is not to glorify them, it is to glorify Christ. If we can't see Christ then we are glorifying man

.

This is exactly the same with the law. If the law doesn't glorify Christ we are reading it wrong.

David was a man after God's own heart. Was it because David was without sin? No, we know he was a sinner just like you and me but the difference was David's heart. When He sinned he was in front of God begging Him for mercy.

If you look at Saul and David you see two kings, both of them sinned but the difference was repentance. When God told Saul what to do he didn't do it or he did only part of what God told him. That is sin. If we are not in line with God's Word we are in sin. Saul even went to Samuel and said to him he did what God asked him to do but meanwhile he only did it halfway. That is sin.

David also sinned but he was before God on his knees understanding repentance. What do we do when we sinned. Do we use grace as a excuse or do we go before God on our knees and beg Him for mercy, therefore repenting of our sins?

David knew Yeshua (or Jesus) and he had a relationship with Him but he also understood repentance

PeterJens · Nov 17, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Above lies the distortion of everything. The first lie is the moral law impossible to follow. The second is
the version people say is acceptable is not righteousness. The third is implicit there is no morality, no
guidelines, no marks, you just follow what you believe God is telling you.

Now this abandonment of any moral foundation is the problem. It resolves the problem of guilt, or
responsibility for sin. Except in another way it makes guilt even worse, because there is no resolution
or victory, it is all religious. The lie they think is to believe you can be righteous or moral.

The real deception is you cannot measure righteousness or success. So in their mind there is no
difference between believers and non-believers only the religion they follow.

But why does Paul write about sin and the corinthinians repenting? Why in revelation are the churches
called to repent and walk in victory, overcome if this is not needed? So this group is simply wrong.

And worse still they condemn those who oppose this heresy as anti-christ. This is 100% divisive and
corrosive, hitting at the heart of the gospel and what it means to walk with Jesus.

The last sentence summarises the real issue

We will never be any more righteous than the day we received Christ and believed in Him.

So no change of behaviour, or growth, or becoming like Christ, no sense of leaving the old self behind
and being remade into the likeness of Christ. It is the fundamental concept of antinomianism.

PeterJens · Nov 17, 2016

gotime said:

A change inside, how we relate to both God and the world, changes our emotional makeup, how we
feel about everything.

Walking in Gods promises is accepting Him as Father and making it real.
The law is about relationship, attitude, and by placing yourself in the right place the law reflected
where you were rather than a fake fit, that you were always trying to be, but it did not gel.

I have found the same realities, rather than asking have I broken things, you express who you are
and the love you have to others and the Lord, and that is it.

royalscot · Nov 17, 2016

you touch ,on police of pharisee state.
however , one is born under an old covenant, the other in a new covenant.

paul had a handful of warrants signed by who. at conversion.

the problem, with an educated state, it has an opinion.

definition to any law will give a good or bad action, or idea, to what is a crime or a sin.

19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you.(me)Luke 10

(me)is the head.1 Corinthians 12v12-31
27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.

an i say again ,1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to youMatthew 7: Judging Others

some are thinking in human form as baby aoudad , and some are thinking in the spiritual as a baby aoudad.
and an other problem you have, is mixed religion beliefs . the only fruit logic with find in mixing human and spiritual is rejection.

but be of good cheer , i have overcome the world.(jc)

Grace777x70 · Nov 17, 2016

gotime said:

Are you still without understanding that the Christian has died to the law, has been released from the law and is NOT under the law of Moses? The law of Moses has done it's job and brought us to Christ.

That is a good question about if you stopped sinning would you still be breaking the law. What is sin according to the law of Moses? If you fail to stone your child for being dis-obedient - that is sin.

If you do not separate your wife and daughter from the house when they are in their monthly cycle - that is sin. If you fail to stone any family member that tries to get to not to rely on the Lord - that is sin.

To break any of the 613 laws is to break them all - that is sin.

FreeNChrist · Nov 17, 2016

gotime said:

"Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Romans 8:1

Grace777x70 · Nov 17, 2016

GandalfTheWhite said:

I love David - he would look prophetically into the future and see what was going to come by means of the grace of God through the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

David pulled that aspect into his life when he had sinned. He should have been killed according to the law of Moses for what he had done.

When we sin ( which we do not want to do because of the life of Christ in us ) - we come boldly to the throne of grace because we know the sacrifice that Christ has done for us and that we are forgiven by the blood of Jesus. We rely on His life and finished work for living life now.

David understood the grace of God and looked forward to the time when the Lord will NOT impute sin to people.

Romans 4:5-8 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

[SUP]7 [/SUP] "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] "BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT."

This above is what David saw - the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ - the true gospel in a nutshell.

True repentance for the Christian and for the unbeliever when they come to receive Christ is not a work that we conjure up nor is it a work that "we produce". It is granted by God. Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25

Grace777x70 · Nov 17, 2016

PeterJens said:

Complete nonsense again. It is a construct of your own mind that says there is no change or growth. You are "twisting" what is said into your own make-believe world again. Peter , at some point you need to come out of this type of nonsense.

You do not understand righteousness which is why you are always trying to create and maintain your own righteousness. It is an anti-Christ belief system that denies the work of Christ. He is our righteousness and you really need to get a revelation of this as all your "good works" is as filthy rags to the Lord when it comes to righteousness.

Many of us are believing that you will one day see the real gospel of Christ and it will change your life forever. We have a great salvation in Him - it is in Him only - not in our own works.

When we preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one says "What?...are you saying we can just go out and sin because of grace?" - if no one says that to us when we are preaching the grace of God. Then we have not preached the gospel like Paul did.

The very nature of the gospel leads the carnal mind to think that it means we can sin all we want because of grace and this is also what the natural mind that some Christians live by...which is what they hear when they hear the true gospel being preached that believers are saying it's ok to sin all you want now because of grace...

..the reality is what is being said is the complete opposite of what those listening with their natural minds think is being said.

We don't need to water down the gospel because it might get mis-understood as it takes away the full strength of the completed and awesome work that our Lord Jesus Christ did for all of us..

The answer to shall we sin so that grace may abound is in Romans chapters 6 and 7. Then chapter 8 puts the final nail into that coffin!

The law is not your problem.

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