The law is not your problem.

[FreeNChrist]

“Morality helps most when it has the least to object to. If it is a guide at all, it is a guide to perfecting one’s virtues, not the reform of one’s vices. It keeps non-gamblers from being foolish at the racetrack. It does not keep child abusers from beating children, compulsive liars from lying, or lechers from leching. For those in the front lines of their faults, it is just a lovely, cruel vision of a home they cannot get to. The law only makes sin exceedingly sinful; it never saved anyone who really needed help.”

-Robert Farrar Capon

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The problem here is I never said I do not sin. You have assumed that. All I know is this, Since taking God at his word my life has changed and the things I used to do I do not do anymore. I still get tempted every day but I find his grace is sufficient and I no longer give into those temptations. Before temptation was something I gave into, now there is strength in Jesus to overcome every temptation that comes.

Is this so offensive to you, that Jesus can actually keep his promises and actually do them? Shall I lie and say that Christ does not keep his promises to make you feel better? God forbid. Is this where Christianity is today, that when someone testifies to the power of the blood and name of Jesus that people doubt.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Is this true or not. Either Christ makes a way out or he does not. I testify He does exactly as He says.

2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Pro 16:3 Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.

Is this true or not? I testify that it is true and God is able to direct your very thoughts.

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Is this true or not? I testify that it is true, He is faithful and will do these things and cause you to walk in his statutes.

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

You all like this text but is it true or not? I testify that God is able to make you holy and to preserve you blameless and is able to do it.

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from Sin, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Is this true or not? I testify that he is actually able to do it.

Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Is this true or not? I testify that it is true that Christ can do more than we can even imagine.

2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Is this true or not? I testify that He keeps his promise and that his power is enough.

We could keep on going, but the point is simple:

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

Do you believe that he is able to do it all that he has promised like Abraham did. Or do you consider your weakness? Do you believe in the God who calls was is not as if it were?

2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

1. I am not offended.. You are free to do whatever you want, and believe whatever you want. Your belief does not offend, or scare me
2. You should worry about what God thinks, Not what I think
3. Paul said in romans 7, After being a follower of the law his whole life. After a ministry to gentiles. where he was shipwrecked, and went through all kinds of tribulation. Had already written some scripture. Said at this poinnt in his life. HE STILL had a struggle between the flesh and spirit. And fo ryou to say you have reached the point where Paul did not even reach while on earth.. Well.. Maybe paul would be offended?

 

[Grandpa]

I never sin
​heheheheehee

That reminds me of when I was telling my daughter and her friend in bible college that no one walks in the spirit perfectly 100% of the time.

Her friend piped up and said "I do."

So I said "Well except for Nicole, no one walks in the spirit perfectly..."

Now its "No one except Nicole and Demi" walk perfectly in the spirit 100% of the time...

 

[LaurenTM]

It seems that many think Jesus came to do away with the law.

tell me who they are and I will make them sorry

Jesus fulfilled the law...we all know that

problems start when folks drive the OT right up the NT lanes at full throttle and hit verses right and left and leave them bleeding on the side of the highway

NOTE: there are lanes for traffic flowing both ways on a highway and even passing lanes

IMO, many people could use a rest on one of those scenic spots off the side where you can take a breather

how's that for a metaphor?

 

[Demi777]

That reminds me of when I was telling my daughter and her friend in bible college that no one walks in the spirit perfectly 100% of the time.

Her friend piped up and said "I do."

So I said "Well except for Nicole, no one walks in the spirit perfectly..."

Now its "No one except Nicole and Demi" walk perfectly in the spirit 100% of the time...

Well God always makes exceptions you know

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Are you still without understanding? The law points out sin full stop. If you sin it condemns you as it does all of us for all have sinned. This far you know. But tell me hypothetically, If you stopped sinning would you still be breaking the law?

The WORD of GOD/JESUS magnified the law from just outward purification to TRUTH Inwardly,so then,even If a person does not sin outwardly,how do they not sin In thoughts?

 

[PeterJens]

Complete nonsense again. It is a construct of your own mind that says there is no change or growth. You are "twisting" what is said into your own make-believe world again. Peter , at some point you need to come out of this type of nonsense.

You do not understand righteousness which is why you are always trying to create and maintain your own righteousness. It is an anti-Christ belief system that denies the work of Christ. He is our righteousness and you really need to get a revelation of this as all your "good works" is as filthy rags to the Lord when it comes to righteousness.

There are many praying for you grace777.
Also a lot who think you are beyond understanding and very deceptive.

Now if I need to understand righteousness correctly to follow your theology, then it does
not rely on faith alone, but ones own understanding as well.

Now I do not understand why you cannot see you are stuck as the first believer, reaching
out to Christ without experience and relying on being cleansed, and not knowing how to walk
in His ways yet.

It is easy to project this state as the totality of the walk, which you appear to do.

Now it makes perfect sense that Jesus's sacrifice opens the way to learn how to walk
righteously in love.

Now even you have to believe when we see Jesus face to face we will have achieved this.
It maybe as through fire, but we will be the unblemished bride.

The mirage of your position is at one point to say you are perfect in your new spirit, while
at the other to say you are always unrighteous and lost. Depending on the argument you
choose either of the positions. I call this delusion, because either you are acceptable or you
are rejected. It is a binary position.

My position is simple. You are pure and holy, washed clean until you are defiled by sin. At
which point to you confess and search for cleansing. It is faith in Christ that keeps you saved,
so whether you stand in unconfessed sin or not, it is the direction of travel that matters.

 

[Chester]

My position is simple. You are pure and holy, washed clean until you are defiled by sin. At
which point to you confess and search for cleansing. It is faith in Christ that keeps you saved,
so whether you stand in unconfessed sin or not, it is the direction of travel that matters.

Interesting statement above Peter - I think that some here think you believe it is good works that keep a person saved.

But you say it quite clearly here; "It is faith in Christ that keeps you saved."

 

[royalscot]

my postion i is simple too, what law did you get your definition to what a sin is. (acts 15)
when did you stop thinking, is thinking bad things a sin, how will would you find reasoning, with the soul .
how did you grow in understanding without reasoning with self first. etc
ie
23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.24 Wretched man that I am! Who will Romans 7: Released from the Law

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free.

so each of us ,has free will and a soul.

6 The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen?7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it."Genesis 4:

who sacrifice was excepted. even the heb writer telling you.


Hebrews 8: Jesus, High Priest of a Better Covenant

13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.


if jesus is not coming back to deal with sin. why are you looking at sin . when you should be enjoying your life.

Romans 8: Life in the Spirit
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death

if your point is only saying unworthy or hell. or no forgiveness .

no wonder the new covenant finds the old in want. what law saved you.

21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.Galatians 2

 

[Grace777x70]

.

The mirage of your position is at one point to say you are perfect in your new spirit, while
at the other to say you are always unrighteous and lost. Depending on the argument you
choose either of the positions. I call this delusion, because either you are acceptable or you
are rejected. It is a binary position.

.

Where in the world do you come up with these nonsense statements like the one in brown above. What happens in your mind that causes you to say such bizarre statements that are not based on anything real?

This is why many say to you that you continually make up things in your mind and then you proceed to speak as if they are real.

This is the reason some of us have you on ignore. You make up things in your mind not based on reality no matter how many times someone says the complete opposite - you maintain something else is being said.

Someone says - "What a beautiful blue sky the Lord gave us today."

You respond back to them - " You are in delusion - the sky is not green - it is blue and everyone knows it".

It is impossible to have any sort of a meaningful discussion with this kind of a mindset.

Sometimes I check to see how you are doing but unfortunately I still see the same behavior.


I'll have to put you back on ignore until you come out of this crazy thinking because no matter how many times people tell you things - you make up in your own mind and carry on saying the complete opposite of what people are actually say. There is something drastically wrong in Denmark. I have to part from communicating with you any more again Peter.

Bless you...the Lord has great things for you and you are His favorite and He loves you dearly.

 

[PeterJens]

Thankyou Grace777 for putting me on ignore, you ignore everything I say anyway so it is consistent.

Now imagine this. Every discussion has a position that disagrees with it or agrees with it.
If you hold two different positions and can pick the one that fits to disagree this is what I call
a mirage.

G7 ( short for grace777 ) holds you are born again with a perfect spirit from God.
It is your "flesh", whatever remains that is sinful. Now I am told the perfect spirit is righteous
and holy etc. and it is the flesh that has to die over time, while you recognise the perfection
within.

Now with this theology you could say you are perfect at the point of salvation or you are
always a sinner and unrighteous because of the flesh. So some say they are now perfect, it
is only the flesh that is sinning, while others hold to God only sees Jesus, and ignores the flesh,
ie sin of the believer as it has been forgiven already.

Now it is not hard to accept this is the theology being held to. But walking in the light like this
is hard, when people want to appear orthodox while following heresy.

I am told I just need to have faith in Jesus to be saved which I do, so I am saved.
Except I am not saved if I understand sin wrongly, and righteousness, and do not believe I cannot
loose my salvation, then I must not be saved. But then it is not just having faith in Jesus it is
also about sin and righteousness, so they are being honest about their own conditions.

But it cannot be about behaviour, because it does not matter how you behave, it does not effect
your salvation, only faith.

But when I say this I am told I am lying and slandering them. Opps. So behaviour does matter.

This is what I call a mirage, a made up position to keep themselves happy but does not add up.
It would be nice if you could understand this, but obiously this is too advanced for you...

By the way, how is this me inventing the above. These are simple valid points.
But you obviously find it impossible to see the obvious, QED.

 

[Grace777x70]

Christians are perfect in their spirits in the new birth in Christ. This is a stumbling block for the D.I.Y self-righteousness mindset to get their minds around.

We are already perfect in our spirits - the new man in Christ - now we have to work that outwardly while we are in this flesh.

Hebrews 12:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Hebrews 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.



Paul is saying in Phil 3:12-14 that he has not yet attained to manifest all that Christ is in him now and that he is forgetting all the good and the bad that was in his past as He presses on to walk out the life of Christ that is in him - including Paul's calling from God to "reveal Christ" in Paul.

Paul said that he was not perfect yet in attaining to all that Christ has made him to be.


We have this treasure ( which is Christ ) in this earthen vessel Paul says in 2 Cor. 4:7

Paul also said that we have been created in righteousness and holiness. Eph. 4:23-24

Ephesians 4:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

[SUP]24 [/SUP] And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

As Jesus is - so are we in this world. 1 John 4:17. His love has made us to be joined with Him forever - that is the gospel message. We are joined to the Lord as one spirit. 1 Cor.6:7

We will never be anymore righteous than we already are now in Christ. There are fruits of this righteousness which is in us but that is a different subject. Let's get the foundation built on Christ's work first.

To the natural humanistic mindset - all this is a mystery, the new creation in Christ is a mystery. The new inner man in Christ is complete.

Now, we need to work out what is already in us in our new creation. This is called the renewing of our mind and we are transformed outwardly as we behold the glory of the Lord as in a mirror - to reflect what Christ has done in the new creation that is in Him.

Without this understanding we are left with a religious striving "to try to become" what God has already made us to be by His work in Christ.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Until we understand what sin in the flesh actually means and that "sin shall not have dominion over us because we are in the spirit and not the flesh" - we will be creating works-based mindsets such as in the supposed keeping of the law of Moses.

EXACTLY...

 

[PeterJens]

Christians are perfect in their spirits in the new birth in Christ. This is a stumbling block for the D.I.Y self-righteousness mindset to get their minds around.

We are already perfect in our spirits - the new man in Christ - now we have to work that outwardly while we are in this flesh.

Without this understanding we are left with a religious striving "to try to become" what God has already made us to be by His work in Christ.

Now here is the simple error. We are a whole being, so either we are perfect or we are
flawed, we cannot be both, but above here we are being both.

Then we have the idea we are trying to be something we are not. But the whole concept is
to be transformed, to learn how to walk in purity, righteousness and love.

But ofcourse if you are always dirty and never clean, then there is no walking in something
you can never be.

To these religious junkies, who say they are not religious but religion is all they have, saying
they are never clean and always fallen their DIY mystic faith, of being both perfect yet
sinner, is just rubbish. If you are dirty you need a wash, and if cleansed, you are clean
until you get dirty again. But this simple analogy they deny.

But if we are never clean, pure and holy, then why does Paul, Peter, John all call us this.
Why is Paul blameless, Timothy pure, without a hint of sexual immorality, if this can never
be achieved. It is why I call G7's position heresy.

Jesus referred to the disciples as being clean because of the words spoken to them, which
is certainly not G7's position. And Peter still denied Jesus but did not loose faith.

So walking righteously does not mean you will not stumble, it implies though you seek forgiveness
pick yourself up and walk on. Peter was also unsure about being Jewish and christian, and Paul
likewise still went through a purification ritual.

It is always easier as the DIY mystics claim to just reject all problematic compromises, but it does
not get round the tension between conscience, the word of God and the conviction of the Holy
Spirit. And being condescending about watering down Gods law, just proves you do not follow the
Lord or know His heart. When Jesus said ask anything believing it will be done for you and it will,
he meant this alone. Jesus always talked about Gods will and intentions, so everything is caviated
with this reality, but not for these guys. No caviates unless specially mentioned and even then
ignored.

 

[PeterJens]

To the natural humanistic mindset - all this is a mystery, the new creation in Christ is a mystery. The new inner man in Christ is complete.

Here is the funniest hypocracy. G7 came to faith as a child, and like almost all the most ardent
preachers of this position.

Yet if they came to faith, then they have been complete since early childhood yet they are still
complete flawed failures, no different today than when they first started.

So knowing Christ changes nothing in your life, you carry on just as before, because whatever
you do it does not matter, you are forgiven because you have a new spirit.

But they were so screwed up by failure and sin, they gave up the faith, until it dawned on them
behaviour did not matter, they were saved anyway. Somehow they call this a new revelation, but
by their own theology they were saved as kids because faith is all that matters.

But hey, I am not saved, I am an anti-Christ, because though I have faith I have added to it.
So again their belief system is more than just faith, it is their own spiritual rules, which are worse
than sin, because they instantly loose your salvation. Opps. Even though you just believed in
Christ and started to follow, you are lying, because now you add the following.

This is more like a clown show with water and planks of wood, making it all so confusing...

 

[Dai3234]

A similar point I have made in another thread, has connected with this one. I feel, battles in my mind and body. The side that wins often in my opinion, decides if we are following Christ etc. But some battles go on. Living a life only for god, devoting yourself, feels like a battle for the newer or relaxed/little effort Christian. The more battles won in Christ, the stronger you become in your Christian "metal". Eventually you unavoidably become more like Christ. If you listen to your conscience. Christ clings to nothing but is good. So eventually, it is likely that you will cling to nothing but Christ. Though the battles are sometimes confusing as to what to do.

You will not cling to children more than god, or items or persons or feelings other than the will/ feelings god gives/creates in you.

You are not told to by the law. But it is said:

YOU DID NOT LISTEN TO YOUR CONSCIENCE, EVEN THOUGH YOU HEARD IT,. I NEVER KNEW YOU ( you are not saved) (roughly).

Though sometimes your conscience has a battle of choices that have unknowns.
Is it correct to vote BREXIT or not. Is it good or bad in the long run for the world etc. In these areas we battle violently in our minds and often just pick one after maybe praying on it. I may have made the wrong choice but am still undecided, am I sinning out of God will or not?

These battles are probably, maybe, why an apostle still struggled with things. Maybe. You see from these points, that the battles won through god, eventually lead to not following the law, but following and becoming like Christ, WHOM MET THE LAW PERFECTLY. BY BEING HIMSELF.
Thoughts?

 

[Grace777x70]

To keep the nonsense down to a minimum - and to reveal this foolishness that are the products of the "made-up" things of the natural humanistic mind.

I will give you my testimony of what the Lord has done when He revealed to me my complete dependence on the gospel of the grace of Christ.

He has changed my mind ( As, only God can give true repentance ) on how I view a lot of things concerning Him and my life in Christ and of course that means all kinds of different sin - for "whatsoever is not of faith is in fact sin ". I have posted this a few times in CC.

If people feel the need to castigate what the Lord has done in my life - then so be it. I am not denying Christ in me and what He has done. I am not ashamed of the gospel - for in it is the power of God for real salvation.

I have a great passion for Christ!..here is what knowing Him because of the revelation of the gospel of the grace of Christ has done for me.

I was praying one morning and thinking about how the grace of Christ has affected me. I had the scripture come up in my spirit where the Pharisees were arguing about whether a man was born blind or not after Jesus healed him. Of course the Pharisees were trying to discredit the message of Jesus. The man said.." All I know is that I was born blind but now I see."

This is what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:

I realize that these beliefs in the grace of God....especially the acceptance grace, repentance from dead works and the total forgiveness that Jesus bought and paid for with His blood....that these can be offensive to our religious beliefs and what we have been taught in church. (they were initially to me as well )

This gospel of the wondrous grace of Christ has had a beautiful affect on me. I am more in love with Jesus and the Father more then ever....in love with studying His word....praying in the spirit constantly with a heart full of joy!

This gospel has given me a compassion for other people and to reach out in love to them. To give more than I ever have with a heart full of love.

To live a holier life in Him...which is not only living separate from the "biggie sins" but everything that He reveals about anything that is contrary to life and His nature that is in me....this has led me to be a witness of the life and love of our Lord in me.

If these are the horrible fruit of the grace of Christ in me....I want more!.....give me more grace please my Lord and God!


I am living a much fuller life now, more deeply in love with Jesus and the Father then ever before or ever dreamed was possible and I am just starting.

I am free from the horrible religion of self-effort, having the love of God pour out in me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self-performance based gospel ( which is not the gospel )

I was blind but now I see. I see Jesus and His finished work for me!

It will always be in eternity "Worthy is the Lamb"..

It will never be.."Worthy is the Lamb......and me...because I did my own D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness to help Jesus out"

It has always been about Jesus and Him alone and it will always remain that way for all eternity.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Ephesians 2:8-10
King James version(KJV)

8.)For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

9.)Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10.)For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Interesting statement above Peter - I think that some here think you believe it is good works that keep a person saved.

But you say it quite clearly here; "It is faith in Christ that keeps you saved."

He also believes the person stays saved by doing good works.

 

[PeterJens]

To keep the nonsense down to a minimum - and to reveal this foolishness that are the products of the "made-up" things of the natural humanistic mind.

All the rest of G7 justification was how he was trying to earn Gods favour rather than just accepting
Christs acceptance. But this is what all believers do.

And all the conforming to Christ and His word, again is what followers of Christ do because they
love Him and want to be and are loving people.

It is always about Jesus and His work in our hearts. So what is so deceptive is to say these words
while condemning other believers as being anti-Christ. So underneath all this gloss is deep error and
deception, but I cannot find out where it is, other than in their own history and distortions.

And to summarise, if the Lords love and the cross is preached, Amen, some will be saved.