The Letter to the Romans...

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Hoffco

Guest
#981
#981
I personally think the "rabbits trails" are ok, if we keep discussing the leaders commentary on the passage at hand. The problem is, no one is following the subject at hand; or no one will follow a new leader for the subject at hand, Romans. We have had two or three persons who have tried to revive, to lead, the discussion; so let me try, again, to keep it going; homwardbound has started Rom.7 again with post 971 , with the death of our old husband "the law". Let us discuss WHO was our old husband. I know OLD traditional positions are hard to brake.; But, I am trying to brake this one. Because the law of God is not the bad, old husband which we need to be freed from. The bad old husband we need to be freed from, and have been freed from, is SIN, The LAW of SIN and DEATH".! God's answer to how to be freed from sin (old husband) is the new birth of the SPIRIT. Please look at the immediate setting, then the overall setting. In Rom. 7, Paul praises the GOOD, HOLY, RIGHTEOUS LAW of GOD. Paul does not think that the LAW is BAD for us. He serves the GOOD law of God with his mind, but his "flesh" ,sin nature, wants the bad old husband, who is still around trying to butt in to the new marriage to righteousness. We could broaden the analogy to: Satan= old husband and Christ = new husband. Read Romans. chs, 1,2,5:19-ch.8 and see if this is not the fact , the LAW is not the problem, SIN is the problem. "I will return" Douglas ??, Love to all, Hoffco
 
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psalm6819

Guest
#982
#982
Paul's conclusion (ch7 v21-25) seems to condense what the chapter is about that while our spirit strives to do what is right we battle with our flesh but thanks to Jesus Messiah (ch8 v1) there is no condemnation because the law of the Spirit of Life has made us free. Free from what???? the law of sin and death!!!!! Praise the Lord!!!!!
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#983
#983
"we are not under law, but under grace" Rom.6:15 ( we broaden our setting) Pauls argument is not to throw out the law, but to throw out SIN. ""you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leadng to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness" ( you once had the old mean husband of SIN, but now you are freed from "SIN" and free to serve your new husband "RIGHTEOUSNESS".) v.18 "And having been set free from sin, you become slaves of righteousness." vs, 19-21, from serving your old husband you get DEATH; vs. 22-23 BUT, from serving your new husband you get eternal life. 22-23 "But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our lord." SELAH, THINK on this!, Love to all Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#984
#984
psalm6819, you are soooo right! Lets continue the contextual study ,Who is our old husband.? Go forward to ch. 8. Jesus killed our old husband sin, Jesus became our old husband, SIN, on the cross, and died, as our old husband, sin, that He could , rise again, to replace the old husband by Himself, our new husband. Jesus became our perfect SAVIOR, HUSBAND, by killing our old husband, SIN, and rising to life again to be our new husband, RIGHTEOUSNESS personified in the person of The LORD JESUS CHRIST. And this, righteousness, became our new position and condition, In Christ, our new husband. Our new personal relationship to Christ, "by God's doing" is what salvation is all about. IT is Sanctification and Justification "in Christ". Love to all, Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#985
#985
Please read Rom. 8:1-5 , In light of my interpretation; Is this not what Paul is saying? Love to all, Hoffco, more "context" to follow.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#986
#986
Paul revisits in Rom. 8:1-3 our new birth experience by the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. SUMMARY: In chs. 1,2 5:19-,6,7,8 we see our new birth experience and holy life exp.. chs, 3,4,5:18 is our justification exp.. Love to all, Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#987
#987
Romans is the Gospel according to Paul. He finishes what John began to do, to give a clear cut theological interpretation of the work of Christ. This is basic for all the real of the New T.. Because Jesus was made under the Old T.. law,He had to keep the old t.. to the "letter" and "spirit". Paul, and Hebrews, moves on do (matures, develops) what Jesus was not allowed to do, leave the old fully, under the Fathers command to fulfill the old and then to get the Apostles to clean up, mop up, the obsolete tapestry old the Old T.. Jesus pointed the way, "the new wine of the New Covenant can not be put into the old skins", then Jesus did the final part of the "mop up" campaign in 70 ad with the destruction of the Temple and the city of Jerusalem as he prophesied. Love to all, Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#988
#988
As I have said before , I like the rules set up by Yahshua, Please feel free to disagree, without name calling and shameful remarks. And hopefully homwardbound and Elin and RedTent, psalm6819 and many others will add their insight, KINDLY, please. Someone paste in the text, I do not know how. As always, the full context is the whole Bible; But keep in mind, the old T.. can never interpret the New T., the Old can only illustrate the New T.. What ever can not fit into the New T. is throw out as obsolete, Sooo, don't Teach from the Old T. any thing that is not in accord with the New T., that is called judaizing. love to all, Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#989
#989
Romans 8:4-5 Jesus killed sin by His death for our sin and to the sin of the whole world. General and limited (particular) atonement is taught in the Bible. Jesus killed our old husband, sin, and now we are married to righteousness. SO, "That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." 6:22 "But now having been set free from sin, and having becomes slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end , everlasting life." Love to all, Hoffco I need a little more sleep
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#990
Oct 24, 2012
16,956
636
113
#990
Hoffco said:
"we are not under law, but under grace" Rom.6:15 ( we broaden our setting) Pauls argument is not to throw out the law, but to throw out SIN. ""you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leadng to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness" ( you once had the old mean husband of SIN, but now you are freed from "SIN" and free to serve your new husband "RIGHTEOUSNESS".) v.18 "And having been set free from sin, you become slaves of righteousness." vs, 19-21, from serving your old husband you get DEATH; vs. 22-23 BUT, from serving your new husband you get eternal life. 22-23 "But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our lord." SELAH, THINK on this!, Love to all Hoffco
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Thanks and all thoughts are taken captivated by this truth to the obedience of Christ, no thought needed truth is truth and sets us free to be the righteousness of God by Faith and through Faith in this we show it by the fruits, of Father through us
by the power of the same Holy Spirit that led Chirst you think?
We are by this stress free being released from the commandment to be and made to be what we are made to be.

A good example a toaster can not function correctly without being plugged into the source that causes it to work correctly and make toast as that is what it is designed for

See the pohysical analogy to bring home the Spiritual reality, what we are designed for? Father, plug us in, and thank you for Son the plug in to you
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#991
Oct 24, 2012
16,956
636
113
#991
Hoffco said:
As I have said before , I like the rules set up by Yahshua, Please feel free to disagree, without name calling and shameful remarks. And hopefully homwardbound and Elin and RedTent, psalm6819 and many others will add their insight, KINDLY, please. Someone paste in the text, I do not know how. As always, the full context is the whole Bible; But keep in mind, the old T.. can never interpret the New T., the Old can only illustrate the New T.. What ever can not fit into the New T. is throw out as obsolete, Sooo, don't Teach from the Old T. any thing that is not in accord with the New T., that is called judaizing. love to all, Hoffco
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Interesting this insight, Thanks Doug, as I see the First Testament is the Giant and the second the fulfillment of the first, the midget
Now if i only see them the first and the second Testament standing along side of each other, then there is much trouble in seeing home, which is heaven.

So when God showed me to put the midget on the giants Shoulder, I then got to see home and not stop to walk in trust To Father through Son and do not derail others and get angry over as is what flesh selfishness is and does, and am still learning daily deeper and deeper, seeing the food Chapter now as deeper than just about food

[h=3]Romans 14[/h]Living Bible (TLB)

14 Give a warm welcome to any brother who wants to join you, even though his faith is weak. Don’t criticize him for having different ideas from yours about what is right and wrong.[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]2 [/SUP]For instance, don’t argue with him about whether or not to eat meat that has been offered to idols. You may believe there is no harm in this, but the faith of others is weaker; they think it is wrong and will go without any meat at all and eat vegetables rather than eat that kind of meat. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Those who think it is all right to eat such meat must not look down on those who won’t. And if you are one of those who won’t, don’t find fault with those who do. For God has accepted them to be his children. [SUP]4 [/SUP]They are God’s servants, not yours. They are responsible to him, not to you. Let him tell them whether they are right or wrong. And God is able to make them do as they should.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Some think that Christians should observe the Jewish holidays as special days to worship God, but others say it is wrong and foolish to go to all that trouble, for every day alike belongs to God. On questions of this kind everyone must decide for himself. [SUP]6 [/SUP]If you have special days for worshiping the Lord, you are trying to honor him; you are doing a good thing. So is the person who eats meat that has been offered to idols; he is thankful to the Lord for it; he is doing right. And the person who won’t touch such meat, he, too, is anxious to please the Lord, and is thankful. [SUP]7 [/SUP]We are not our own bosses to live or die as we ourselves might choose. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Living or dying we follow the Lord. Either way we are his. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Christ died and rose again for this very purpose, so that he can be our Lord both while we live and when we die.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]You have no right to criticize your brother or look down on him. Remember, each of us will stand personally before the Judgment Seat of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For it is written, “As I live,” says the Lord, “every knee shall bow to me and every tongue confess to God.” [SUP]12 [/SUP]Yes, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]So don’t criticize each other anymore. Try instead to live in such a way that you will never make your brother stumble by letting him see you doing something he thinks is wrong.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]As for myself, I am perfectly sure on the authority of the Lord Jesus that there is nothing really wrong with eating meat that has been offered to idols. But if someone believes it is wrong, then he shouldn’t do it because for him it is wrong. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And if your brother is bothered by what you eat, you are not acting in love if you go ahead and eat it. Don’t let your eating ruin someone for whom Christ died. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Don’t do anything that will cause criticism against yourself even though you know that what you do is right.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For, after all, the important thing for us as Christians is not what we eat or drink but stirring up goodness and peace and joy from the Holy Spirit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]If you let Christ be Lord in these affairs, God will be glad; and so will others. [SUP]19 [/SUP]In this way aim for harmony in the church, and try to build each other up.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Don’t undo the work of God for a chunk of meat. Remember, there is nothing wrong with the meat, but it is wrong to eat it if it makes another stumble. [SUP]21 [/SUP]The right thing to do is to quit eating meat or drinking wine or doing anything else that offends your brother or makes him sin. [SUP]22 [/SUP]You may know that there is nothing wrong with what you do, even from God’s point of view, but keep it to yourself; don’t flaunt your faith in front of others who might be hurt by it. In this situation, happy is the man who does not sin by doing what he knows is right. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But anyone who believes that something he wants to do is wrong shouldn’t do it. He sins if he does, for he thinks it is wrong, and so for him it is wrong. Anything that is done apart from what he feels is right is sin.
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#992
Oct 24, 2012
16,956
636
113
#992
Hoffco said:
As I have said before , I like the rules set up by Yahshua, Please feel free to disagree, without name calling and shameful remarks. And hopefully homwardbound and Elin and RedTent, psalm6819 and many others will add their insight, KINDLY, please. Someone paste in the text, I do not know how. As always, the full context is the whole Bible; But keep in mind, the old T.. can never interpret the New T., the Old can only illustrate the New T.. What ever can not fit into the New T. is throw out as obsolete, Sooo, don't Teach from the Old T. any thing that is not in accord with the New T., that is called judaizing. love to all, Hoffco
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So are you maybe seeing the war is as has been form day one of the fall as: Just asking for view on this verse below?
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
[h=3]Galatians 4:29[/h]Living Bible (TLB)

[SUP]29 [/SUP]And so we who are born of the Holy Spirit are persecuted now by those who want us to keep the Jewish laws, just as Isaac, the child of promise, was persecuted by Ishmael, the slave-wife’s son.

Could this be?
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#993
Oct 24, 2012
16,956
636
113
#993
Hoffco said:
Romans 8:4-5 Jesus killed sin by His death for our sin and to the sin of the whole world. General and limited (particular) atonement is taught in the Bible. Jesus killed our old husband, sin, and now we are married to righteousness. SO, "That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." 6:22 "But now having been set free from sin, and having becomes slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end , everlasting life." Love to all, Hoffco I need a little more sleep
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100% agreed all Father though Son, Father's Mercy toi us the debt paid that no one could ever pay is paid and we begged for Mercy and it is given to us. So in response to this do we then give it or keep and attack others ass if they can't have it and need to pay us for it?
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#994
Oct 24, 2012
16,956
636
113
#994
Romans 8 is begun just look at the separation of flesh we all are originally born with Son's of Adam, needing to be Son's of Father through the only Son of God that God the Father is pleased with Christ Jesus and is the only flesh that has ever pleased Father ever or ever will. Think that might be why he Christ said we need to be born again, from flesh, Son's of Adam to Son's of God by Christ the Son, the way, the truth and the new life he came to give?




  • 1 Corinthians 15:39 And just as there are different kinds of seeds and plants, so also there are different kinds of flesh. Humans, animals, fish, and birds are all different.
    1 Corinthians 15:38-40 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 15 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  • 1 Corinthians 15:50 I tell you this, my brothers: an earthly body made of flesh and blood cannot get into God’s Kingdom. These perishable bodies of ours are not the right kind to live forever.
    1 Corinthians 15:49-51 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 15 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  • 2 Corinthians 12:7 I will say this: because these experiences I had were so tremendous, God was afraid I might be puffed up by them; so I was given a physical condition which has been a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from Satan to hurt and bother me and prick my pride.
    2 Corinthians 12:6-8 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 12 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  • Ephesians 6:12 For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but against persons without bodies—the evil rulers of the unseen world, those mighty satanic beings and great evil princes of darkness who rule this world; and against huge numbers of wicked spirits in the spirit world.
    Ephesians 6:11-13 (in Context) Ephesians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  • Hebrews 2:14 Since we, God’s children, are human beings—made of flesh and blood—he became flesh and blood too by being born in human form; for only as a human being could he die and in dying break the power of the devil who had the power of death.
    Hebrews 2:13-15 (in Context) Hebrews 2 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  • James 5:3 The value of your gold and silver is dropping fast, yet it will stand as evidence against you and eat your flesh like fire. That is what you have stored up for yourselves to receive on that coming day of judgment.
    James 5:2-4 (in Context) James 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  • Revelation 19:18 Come and eat the flesh of kings, and captains, and great generals; of horses and riders; and of all humanity, both great and small, slave and free.”
    Revelation 19:17-19 (in Context) Revelation 19 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  • Revelation 19:21 And their entire army was killed with the sharp sword in the mouth of the one riding the white horse, and all the birds of heaven were gorged with their flesh.

    And Christ is the only that pleased Father, so let ius choose to eat his flesh and drink his Blood in Spirit and truth and be one with Father and Spirit,

    Therefore
    Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

    And we thus just as Paul could claim we are by Faith claim the same by Christ and are in thanksgiving and praise

    Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.




 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#995
Oct 24, 2012
16,956
636
113
#995
Romans 8 is begun just look at the separation of flesh we all are originally born with Son's of Adam, needing to be Son's of Father through the only Son of God that God the Father is pleased with Christ Jesus and is the only flesh that has ever pleased Father ever or ever will. Think that might be why he Christ said we need to be born again, from flesh, Son's of Adam to Son's of God by Christ the Son, the way, the truth and the new life he came to give?




  • 1 Corinthians 15:39 And just as there are different kinds of seeds and plants, so also there are different kinds of flesh. Humans, animals, fish, and birds are all different.
    1 Corinthians 15:38-40 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 15 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  • 1 Corinthians 15:50 I tell you this, my brothers: an earthly body made of flesh and blood cannot get into God’s Kingdom. These perishable bodies of ours are not the right kind to live forever.
    1 Corinthians 15:49-51 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 15 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  • 2 Corinthians 12:7 I will say this: because these experiences I had were so tremendous, God was afraid I might be puffed up by them; so I was given a physical condition which has been a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from Satan to hurt and bother me and prick my pride.
    2 Corinthians 12:6-8 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 12 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  • Ephesians 6:12 For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but against persons without bodies—the evil rulers of the unseen world, those mighty satanic beings and great evil princes of darkness who rule this world; and against huge numbers of wicked spirits in the spirit world.
    Ephesians 6:11-13 (in Context) Ephesians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  • Hebrews 2:14 Since we, God’s children, are human beings—made of flesh and blood—he became flesh and blood too by being born in human form; for only as a human being could he die and in dying break the power of the devil who had the power of death.
    Hebrews 2:13-15 (in Context) Hebrews 2 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  • James 5:3 The value of your gold and silver is dropping fast, yet it will stand as evidence against you and eat your flesh like fire. That is what you have stored up for yourselves to receive on that coming day of judgment.
    James 5:2-4 (in Context) James 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  • Revelation 19:18 Come and eat the flesh of kings, and captains, and great generals; of horses and riders; and of all humanity, both great and small, slave and free.”
    Revelation 19:17-19 (in Context) Revelation 19 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  • Revelation 19:21 And their entire army was killed with the sharp sword in the mouth of the one riding the white horse, and all the birds of heaven were gorged with their flesh.

    And Christ is the only that pleased Father, so let ius choose to eat his flesh and drink his Blood in Spirit and truth and be one with Father and Spirit,

    Therefore
    Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

    And we thus just as Paul could claim we are by Faith claim the same by Christ and are in thanksgiving and praise

    Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.




 
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psalm6819

Guest
#996
#996
Chapter 8 to me begins to compare and contrast the flesh and the spirit. Confirming to us that while we will always strive with our flesh we are yet under grace and to be lead by the Holy Spirit for our carnal mind (flesh) is at war with God will and not be subject to to the laws of God. BUT v 9 "ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit." We must fight to overcome the spirit of bondage and fear, to know that the Holy Spirit reassures us that we are sons of God and joint hiers with Christ. That's about half way I guess to v 18.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#997
#997
Homwardbound, your post995 is totally offthe:cool: subject of the "flesh"of Rom.8.. Paul is nottalking:( about ourhuman:confused: body ,but our sinful nature ,our evil heart :rolleyes:,the body is good, it is our sin nature, spirit,that makes us use our physical body for sin. Sorry. my pc will not get out of this mode it is in, it is erasing my letters and n't let me correct, That word was "won't but spelled wrong. Love to all, :D Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#998
#998
honwardbound, Let me see if my pc has corrected its attitude. In post 993 it sounds like you are mocking our most Holy , sovereign, loving yet wrathful God who alone has the power and mercy to save us helpless sinners. Can you honestly read Romans and have a hateful attitude toward the electing merciful God we serve. Please check your attitude to God's clear word.:( Let me back up a little, and give you the benefit of an honest mistake.:confused: You actually slapped us who might have a prideful attitude of thinking we are so special because God chose us and not the other sinners. The Bible teaching on election should lead us to humility not pride. I was sooo dead that only God could save me, by His eternal love and powerful calling me to come to Jesus for salvation, so I could repent trust and obey to be saved. If I am off the wall, Please let me known you mind on this post. Love to all Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#999
#999
Chapter 8 is just a further development of the great contrast of the Christians in ch.one, vs,5-17 with what we were before salvation as those in ch,1:18-32. Ch.2 gives the same contrast between the saved Gentiles and the lost Jew, that Jew was not Heart circumcised, born of God. We Christians are not under the control of our old sinful natures; we have a new heart and have God living in side us. If we are walking the holy lives, then the Holy Spirit will witness to our salvation; but if we are not walking holy lives the Spirit will rebuke us and correct us.., as Jesus did the disciples. "if you don't receive the Kingdom as a child, you will not enter the kingdom". And we know Judas never had entered the Kingdom. And the eleven shrived harder to enter, and did, which means , they had already been saved, but doubted it from time to time. We should never give any back sliding christian assurance of salvation. Tell them to take two doses of IJH. ( first John) and call me in the morning, when the SON LIGHT dawns upon your soul:confused:. Love to all. Hoffco
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#1,000
Oct 24, 2012
16,956
636
113
#1,000
Hoffco said:
Homwardbound, your post995 is totally offthe:cool: subject of the "flesh"of Rom.8.. Paul is nottalking:( about ourhuman:confused: body ,but our sinful nature ,our evil heart :rolleyes:,the body is good, it is our sin nature, spirit,that makes us use our physical body for sin. Sorry. my pc will not get out of this mode it is in, it is erasing my letters and n't let me correct, That word was "won't but spelled wrong. Love to all, :D Hoffco
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Thanks for that correction, I see waht you say the body is either controlled by our carnal minds that our not renewed to God's way of thinking and need be.
So the body, mine is either controlled by me or by trust in God to hear God and do as God says by trusting God what is best as when God says no, just trust that this no is somehow for my best, God knowing all
Is that what you mean?
 
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