THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

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miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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I definitely do not agree with Sudakar on some things, but how does disagreeing on a theological point mean an accusation like this?
Sorry, you are right...however, if you were to look over this whole thread, you would see that Sudakar brought up the Covid virus first and in an accusatory way...


terrible example to set if one claims to be teaching
 
Nov 16, 2019
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so, once again, here we go- belief in Christ is not enough, it takes works to save.

so, please stop saying that you think that belief in Christ saves, you clearly do not think this.
I'm amazed that you can not comprehend this.
There is faith that produces obedience, and there is 'faith' that does not.
Only one of these two kinds of faith saves:

"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." - Galatians 5:6

The faith that finds expression in the obedience to love is the faith that justifies apart from works.
It doesn't say, "faith that doesn't express itself through love".
But you say it does.

The faith that saves apart from works is the faith that will then obey God.
The works produced by that faith don't earn that salvation, they are the result of it.
If you don't have that result, you don't have that faith.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
so, once again, here we go- belief in Christ is not enough, it takes works to save.

so, please stop saying that you think that belief in Christ saves, you clearly do not think this.
So true state they believe a doctrine but then in the next sentence deny the doctrine they state they believe.

Every single time without fail!!
 
Nov 16, 2019
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So true state they believe a doctrine but then in the next sentence deny the doctrine they state they believe.

Every single time without fail!!
Do you purposely not understand the argument, or do you genuinely do not understand the argument?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,838
583
113
Sorry, you are right...however, if you were to look over this whole thread, you would see that Sudakar brought up the Covid virus first and in an accusatory way...


terrible example to set if one claims to be teaching
Sorry...I think his remark might have been in the Cessationism and Healing thread...
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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...as taught in the book of James, works demonstrate the faith that justified us so that others may also believe.
I agree sister (y)

I also believe that what we do & say as Christians (and even how we think) gives us a practical assurance of who we really are, a knowledge that we have really and truly come into possession of saving faith.

It's not all about who you "claim" (or even believe yourself) to be on the inside that matters, it's what you ~do~ that truly defines you/tells you who you are. So, if the "walk" that is seen (from someone claiming to be a believer) does not demonstrate the "talk" that you hear from them (about being born again), then chances are more than just good that such a person is NOT/never was a true believer (never, born again).

True Christians "act" like Christians, and when we sin, we make things right again by confession and seeking forgiveness from God (and from those we offended too when necessary).

Why? Because that's what (true) Christians do.

Therefore, what we do, not what we claim, is how we 1.demonstrate who we are/justify our claim of being a Christian, both to ourselves and to others, and 2. it's how we know whether we passed, or failed, the test .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 13:5 (see below).

What we do does not/cannot make us into Christians, rather, what we do tells if we are who we ~claim~ to be, a true Christians or a CINO (Christian In Name Only). What we do as Christians is the RESULT, ~not~ the cause of our becoming and/or remaining Christians (BTW, I know that you already know all of this @EleventhHour, but there are at least one or two others here who do not, or at least they do not seem to know, anyway, so I actually wrote most of this for their benefit, not yours).

God bless you :)

~Deut



2 Corinthians 13
5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?


 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
2,412
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Didn't notice the formatting had changed at the bottom of my post above before my 5 minutes of editing time were up :( Sorry about that!
 

Prycejosh1987

Active member
Jul 19, 2020
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"Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93).
I partly agree with this. intentions make the man. God will at judgement assess our intentions to see if we did things in purity.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,998
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I partly agree with this. intentions make the man. God will at judgement assess our intentions to see if we did things in purity.
1 Corinthians 4:5 - Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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I agree sister (y)

I also believe that what we do & say as Christians (and even how we think) gives us a practical assurance of who we really are, a knowledge that we have really and truly come into possession of saving faith.

It's not all about who you "claim" (or even believe yourself) to be on the inside that matters, it's what you ~do~ that truly defines you/tells you who you are. So, if the "walk" that is seen (from someone claiming to be a believer) does not demonstrate the "talk" that you hear from them (about being born again), then chances are more than just good that such a person is NOT/never was a true believer (never, born again).

True Christians "act" like Christians, and when we sin, we make things right again by confession and seeking forgiveness from God (and from those we offended too when necessary).

Why? Because that's what (true) Christians do.

Therefore, what we do, not what we claim, is how we 1.demonstrate who we are/justify our claim of being a Christian, both to ourselves and to others, and 2. it's how we know whether we passed, or failed, the test .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 13:5 (see below).

What we do does not/cannot make us into Christians, rather, what we do tells if we are who we ~claim~ to be, a true Christians or a CINO (Christian In Name Only). What we do as Christians is the RESULT, ~not~ the cause of our becoming and/or remaining Christians (BTW, I know that you already know all of this @EleventhHour, but there are at least one or two others here who do not, or at least they do not seem to know, anyway, so I actually wrote most of this for their benefit, not yours).

God bless you :)

~Deut



2 Corinthians 13
5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?


Love that quote you have from A W Pink.
 

Robertt

Active member
May 22, 2019
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Bahrain
Ahh the old works versus faith issue.

we are all Saved By Faith to DO Good Works.

The Evidence of being Saved is the Good Works.

You don't get saved by doing works. You do works because You are saved.

So if after saying the words and claiming belief and your life hasn't changed, you need to reassess that process.

The bible teaches Faith without Works is DEAD. so if your Faith is Dead how can you be saved by Faith ?

The Holy Spirit within will inspire the good works, so if you not getting that inspiration, reassess do you have the Holy Spirit dwelling within

So yes Start with Faith, Trust in the One True God, Then the outcome of that is a new Creation, you are saved to do Good Works for Christ, not to sit idly by in your Faith.



Let no man deceive you, many will come in the last days and say they been doing good works, and Christ will say he knew them not. So yes start with the relationship

But be aware, because he also separated the Sheep from the Goats. The difference being what they DID and DIDNT DO.

In the end pray and see what answer you get. Your God will answer you whichever God you Believe in!
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,608
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Salvation is a "gift" by grace through faith apart from any and all works.... to add in "turn from sin" as a requirement makes it a bilateral transaction ....quid pro quo..... it is not.

We do not make a promise to turn from sin in order to receive the gift of salvation...moreover Jesus is Lord we do not make Him Lord.
So you believe killer don't need to repent to be save?

You have problem with understanding the requirement of salvation

Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Lawyer ask what shall I do to inherit eternal life

= what requirement to inherit eternal life

Jesus agree with

Requirement of salvation is

Love God and Love fellow man

Mean if you not love God and fellow men you not save

Mean if you kill fellow man and not repent you not save.

How another verse say by faith

Because if you have faith you love God, you can't have faith and hate god

And if you love God you love your fellow man.

Because bible say if a man say love God and hate his brother, he is liar.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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Grace is a work of God in us to transform us into the people He created us to be. "Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be." (Psalm 139:16) Every chapter and every verse was written at our conception and we have to follow the script that God wrote for us. God ordained for us to fulfill the word of God.

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God: and the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works (Rev-20:12)."
Which book are we found in or not found in ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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You have a serious misunderstanding of Lordship Salvation. Here is how it is described in Got Questions:

Question: "What is lordship salvation?"
Answer: The doctrine of lordship salvation teaches that submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with trusting in Christ as Savior. Lordship salvation is the opposite of what is sometimes called easy-believism or the teaching that salvation comes through an acknowledgement of a certain set of facts.

Here is what CARM Says:
What is Lordship salvation and is it biblical?
by Matt Slick
Though there are variations on what Lordship salvation really is, it is basically the view that in order to become a true Christian a person must receive Jesus as both Savior and Lord and that he must also cease from sin or be willing to cease from sin in order to be saved (i.e., repent).


Both definitions are presenting the biblical meaning of salvation. Repentance toward God and faith toward our LORD Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21). So unless one receives Christ as BOTH Lord and Savior, he or she is not truly saved. See Romans 10 for further confirmation. And here are the words of Paul in Acts 16:31: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

It does not matter what John MacArthur or anyone else says, or misrepresents. You have your Bible, and it teaches Lordship Salvation.
Where ? where does Paul say we have to cease from sin or be willing to ,to be saved ?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Repent and Believe I think Jesus said clearly enough.....

Go and sin no more !
In Mark 1:15, Jesus said - .."repent and believe the gospel" and the gospel is not sinless perfection. Those who believe they live a sinless, perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

I have seen certain people over the years abuse and misuse the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection, yet Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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So why do you think lordship Salvationists trust in their works to prove their faith is salvific?
Because its part of their theology and world view . Both Calvinists and Arminians are trusting their works .