The lie that we are sinless if we are saved

[CS1]

I

Ok thanks for clarifying.
I understand sanctification but was unsure as to whether you were implying we can be sinless in our walk with Jesus.

In Christ, we are without sin. But the flesh is not saved.

There is a war going on in our members the bible says Paul talked about it.

The battle of the flesh can drive one crazy.

For example, is 1. I do not commit the act of adultery or sexual perversion.

YET in my heart, I am thinking about it all the time. Now I did not do the sin, YET it is in my mind why? There is a heart issue. I did not surrender that part of my life to the Lord (I took it from somewhere, what place did I take it from? I will show you in a few.) Because the Flesh will desire the fleshly things. Until I become a willful participant of the suggestion I am not in sin even if the thoughts are in my mind why? Because it is a temptation that is triggered by the flesh and the devil.

Listen men need this a lot. The reason why we are told to run!!!! from sexual sin is because we will be tempted with it, NOT IF but WHEN.

2cor 10:3-5
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh.

This battle is not won by our own strength. Though we walk as flesh beings we do not fight sinful desires of the flesh with behavioral modifications or 12 step programs that are more about embracing and living with an addiction and stronghold.

FYI THAT IS NOT FREEDOM IN CHRIST!

4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,

The warfare is not abilities within the flesh or intellectual understanding of your addiction or desire to sin. but the ones God provides us Break strongholds and set people free. The origin of homosexuality or drunkness doesn't set men free because they know where it came from.

What sets men free is an encounter with Christ who defeated death, hell, and the grave. On HIS Cross we were supposed to leave our sin and the body of sinful desires at the cross and walked away as a new creature in Christ. Not with a sinking corpse on our backs.




5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,


Listen to these "CASTING DOWN ARGUMENTS" Stop making excuses to sin. Stop talking off the cross what you put on it YOUR SIN.

When you were saved. Stop trying to rationale and justify the sinful desire that will be with us till Jesus comes or we die.

WE are in a war !!!!

And this war is on all: Women, children, men, rich, poor, Jew, and Gentile.

However, Our God has given us victory at The Cross of Christ STOP taking your sin back from the cross you left it at.

Repent leave there and turn and follow the Lord Jesus who gave you life, victory, and power to fight the good fight of Faith. Which is the obedience of Christ.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

So one must stop sinning before they are saved according to you??? Wow. Talk about contradicting Scripture!!!

SALVATION is getting on The Cross ...right? That is where JESUS took on our Forsakenness. So how do you think you get on that Cross? You Uphold His Image after being Reborn to IT!!! That is the Key ...that is THE WAY.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So one must stop sinning before they are saved according to you??? Wow. Talk about contradicting Scripture!!!

amen one has to acknowledge thier sins before salvation and trust that Christ will lead us out of them as we believe and follow him

 

[lawrence101]

Accusation? You can't get more obvious than what he already said to me.

i'm celebrate and middle aged.

Then why are you talking like an hysterical teenager ? ... sounds like your trying to look down on and condemn some struggling christian people. Shame on you.

 

[CherieR]

I


In Christ, we are without sin. But the flesh is not saved.

There is a war going on in our members the bible says Paul talked about it.

The battle of the flesh can drive one crazy.

For example, is 1. I do not commit the act of adultery or sexual perversion.

YET in my heart, I am thinking about it all the time. Now I did not do the sin, YET it is in my mind why? There is a heart issue. I did not surrender that part of my life to the Lord (I took it from somewhere, what place did I take it from? I will show you in a few.) Because the Flesh will desire the fleshly things. Until I become a willful participant of the suggestion I am not in sin even if the thoughts are in my mind why? Because it is a temptation that is triggered by the flesh and the devil.

Listen men need this a lot. The reason why we are told to run!!!! from sexual sin is because we will be tempted with it, NOT IF but WHEN.

2cor 10:3-5
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh.

This battle is not won by our own strength. Though we walk as flesh beings we do not fight sinful desires of the flesh with behavioral modifications or 12 step programs that are more about embracing and living with an addiction and stronghold.

FYI THAT IS NOT FREEDOM IN CHRIST!

4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,

The warfare is not abilities within the flesh or intellectual understanding of your addiction or desire to sin. but the ones God provides us Break strongholds and set people free. The origin of homosexuality or drunkness doesn't set men free because they know where it came from.

What sets men free is an encounter with Christ who defeated death, hell, and the grave. On HIS Cross we were supposed to leave our sin and the body of sinful desires at the cross and walked away as a new creature in Christ. Not with a sinking corpse on our backs.




5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,


Listen to these "CASTING DOWN ARGUMENTS" Stop making excuses to sin. Stop talking off the cross what you put on it YOUR SIN.

When you were saved. Stop trying to rationale and justify the sinful desire that will be with us till Jesus comes or we die.

WE are in a war !!!!

And this war is on all: Women, children, men, rich, poor, Jew, and Gentile.

However, Our God has given us victory at The Cross of Christ STOP taking your sin back from the cross you left it at.

Repent leave there and turn and follow the Lord Jesus who gave you life, victory, and power to fight the good fight of Faith. Which is the obedience of Christ.

How do you put this into practice in your own life if I may ask?

 

[SophieT]

in think scripture speaks for itself. I believe that which I quoted is meant to turn our thinking against willful sin.

willful sin is when you know you are sinning it’s part of our Will as humans to sin in some ways each have different areas we struggle with but all have some areas

scripture like that is. It meant to condemn us but to change our thinking towards scripture. It’s meant to cause repentance when we read thkngs like that or like this

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16, 19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s not meant for others to condemn each other and stare intently looking for others behavior it’s meant to change our minds toward righteousness

it’s about what we believe.

I asked why you responded to Nehemiah's post

he posted about salvation

again, what did you think of his post?

to me, your response does not seem related to what he posted so I am wondering why you responded with scripture that does not reflect on his post

ps...I asked for people's thoughts on the topic of the op...in other words, address the topic please

and I have no clue what you mean by 'in think scripture speaks for itself'

salvation is being saved FROM sin...not to dwell on it, but to dwell on the riches of God's grace and all that salvation is actually about

sure, there is mention of sin in the NT...but dwelling on sin actually takes the focus off the answer...Jesus

 

[pittsburghjoe]

amen one has to acknowledge thier sins before salvation and trust that Christ will lead us out of them as we believe and follow him

Jhn 3:14
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Jhn 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[SophieT]

amen one has to acknowledge thier sins before salvation and trust that Christ will lead us out of them as we believe and follow him

we are not led out of our sins

we are totally and absolutely forgiven of our sins

the Holy Spirit enables us to live for Christ...we are empowered by Him to obey

constantly reflecting on sin just stirs it up

if people see themselves as 'just a sinner', they will act that way

however, the Bible says we are a new creature in Christ. old things are passed away and ALL things have become new.

we do not need baptism for salvation...we need the blood of Christ washing away our sins. we do not need to constantly think of ourselves in the negative....this is not what scripture teaches

 

[pittsburghjoe]

To acknowledge your sin is to stop doing them.
To acknowledge your sin is to lift JESUS up.
To acknowledge your sin is to Believe in JESUS!!!

 

[SophieT]

Then why are you talking like an hysterical teenager ? ... sounds like your trying to look down on and condemn some struggling christian people. Shame on you.

hysterical teenager.....

 

[CS1]

How do you put this into practice in your own life if I may ask?

very good question. One is maturing and becoming tired of giving into that which God said do not do.

If I hold back part of my heart to God I will be miserable and suffer what is known as lukewarmness. There is no peace or middle ground in that. YOu cannot serve two masters BUT we all try to do so. It will not work. God demands all BUT he is patient with us. The Holy Spirit helps us " My Grace is Sufficient for you".

There are many things we must overcome to get the victory.

1. is known we already have it but must walk in it.
2. we must draw near to HIm
3. we must understand that there is not a time we will arrive that we are not to be in a battle yet there will be days on the mountain before and after the valleys.
4. Do not listen to the enemy's accusations Tell him to shut up in the name of Jesus and go Boldly to the throne room of grace and Obtain mercy in your time of Needs remember we are not practicing sin but HIS grace is more than enough. If you ever become comfortable with disobedience we must check our walk immediately. WE must pray for those who are in the struggle or battling them something we are that nobody knows about but God.
5. IF you don't want the victory Just tell God about your addiction or stronghold. WE must find an accountable brother if you are a man and a sister if you are a woman.

You who are spiritual restore one weak in the faith and in doing so you save yourself.

Gel 6:1-5

1Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual(mature in the faith) restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

3For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself.

4 But let each one examine his own work,(walk) and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. 5For each one shall bear his own load.

 

[SophieT]

"pittsburghjoe, post: 4775412, member: 304759"]To acknowledge your sin is to stop doing them.

to acknowledge your sin is to ask for forgivness of that sin. no one can stop sinning without the empowering life of the Spirit of God dwelling within.

To acknowledge your sin is to lift JESUS up.

to lift up Jesus means to talk about HIM...not your sin!

To acknowledge your sin is to Believe in JESUS!!!

to believe in Jesus is to be forgiven of your sin and believe you are now forgiven of that sin and understand that God no longer sees you as a lost sinner

 

[pittsburghjoe]

"pittsburghjoe, post: 4775412, member: 304759"]To acknowledge your sin is to stop doing them.

to acknowledge your sin is to ask for forgivness of that sin. no one can stop sinning without the empowering life of the Spirit of God dwelling within.

To acknowledge your sin is to lift JESUS up.

to lift up Jesus means to talk about HIM...not your sin!

To acknowledge your sin is to Believe in JESUS!!!

to believe in Jesus is to be forgiven of your sin and believe you are now forgiven of that sin and understand that God no longer sees you as a lost sinner

Research this:


Jhn 3:14
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Jhn 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.



To Lift Up JESUS is to Uphold The Reborn Image! You stop sin because you Believe!

 

[lawrence101]

To acknowledge your sin is to stop doing them.
To acknowledge your sin is to lift JESUS up.
To acknowledge your sin is to Believe in JESUS!!!

This is nothing but childish nonsense, you need to start reading your Bible and ask adults about it meaning.

 

[lawrence101]

Research this:


Jhn 3:14
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Jhn 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Again you are misquoting and misunderstanding scripture, you are a student ask questions so we can help you.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Numbers 21:4-9

4 And they journeyed from mount Hor by the way of the Red sea, to compass the land of Edom: and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way.

5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.

6 And the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord, and against thee; pray unto the Lord, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.

8 And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

They acknowledged their sin to live!!!

 

[Oncefallen]

Why do the moderators of this sight allow people to continue to call God a liar by posting that they live without sin?

Typically those promoting the error of sinless perfectionism are removed in time however this site does not have (never has, probably never will) the funding to employ full time (paid) Moderators who can review threads real time. We rely on users reporting TOS violations and review them as we have time.

 

[Blain]

::sigh:: are you pretending that Adam didn't have an image that The Last Adam Fixed?

I don't think it was about image it was about a state of being with God, Adam once walked with God blameless and without sin Jesus knew we couldn't do that on our own and took the place as the sacrifice to make us blasmeless once more that is it the work is already done no amount of work you do to not sin will save you only by believing in the work Christ has done will do that if you believe that you can earn your salvation you will lose it.

The reason I asked you where you got your teaching from is because I know there are many false and dangerous teachers out there that preach this very doctrine I was almost destroyed by it I have seen the damage it can do not just to me but tpo others as well it is a works doctrine even if by the power of the holy spirit that you claim to do it I am assuming all the things I spoke of about the intimacy the deep longing the inner groaining and torture of hunger for him that unquenchable thirst and craving to have him so badly is foriegn to you isn't it? To be so madly in love with him you just can't stand it to desire him so intimately it is beyond words? This probably escapes you and sounds wierd most likely because you in fact do not know him in this way you do not know what it is like to have a close and intimate bond with him and his spirit because that is one that his children have it is exactl like one of two lovers

His spotless bride are not those who strive to never sin and are the ones who are perfect but those who are perfectly in love with him it is love that makes you his child until you come to know this love you will never come to know him or his spirit.

 

[RichMan]

Typically those promoting the error of sinless perfectionism are removed in time however this site does not have (never has, probably never will) the funding to employ full time (paid) Moderators who can review threads real time. We rely on users reporting TOS violations and review them as we have time.

Thank you. I understand now.

 

[CS1]

Typically those promoting the error of sinless perfectionism are removed in time however this site does not have (never has, probably never will) the funding to employ full time (paid) Moderators who can review threads real time. We rely on users reporting TOS violations and review them as we have time.

You have been and continue to be, a valuable part of CC. We can learn much from you. I have enjoyed the talk we have had in the past.