THE NATURAL MAN

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lil_christian

lil_christian

Senior Member
#41
Mar 14, 2010
7,489
73
48
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#41
Romans 11:36
For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

From Him - is the free gift of salvation

Through Him - We have a sacrifice and a High Priest

To Him - Are all things.
Ephesians 5:2
and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.

Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Thank you, have a good day. :D
 
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J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#42
#42
lil_christian said:
Romans 11:36
For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

From Him - is the free gift of salvation

Through Him - We have a sacrifice and a High Priest

To Him - Are all things.
Ephesians 5:2
and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.

Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Thank you, have a good day. :D
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You're right. It is a free gift. You don't have to do anything to receive it, because quite frankly, you have nothing to be offering in echange. That's why it's called Grace.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#43
#43
lil_christian said:
Hmmm...is that a tactic? :p I've seen you post the same thing about 4 times, including in your signature. :p
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Yet, no one responds to the text. Very telling indeed.


Mark 13:20

20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them.



Who chose who?
 
lil_christian

lil_christian

Senior Member
#44
Mar 14, 2010
7,489
73
48
27
#44
jimmydiggs said:
You're right. It is a free gift. You don't have to do anything to receive it, because quite frankly, you have nothing to be offering in echange. That's why it's called Grace.
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All ya have to do is say yes to the gift. :) We have nothing to offer in exchange besides our service to Him that others may believe in Jesus and the Good News. Yes, Grace is something given to those who don't deserve it.
 
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lil_christian

lil_christian

Senior Member
#45
Mar 14, 2010
7,489
73
48
27
#45
jimmydiggs said:
Yet, no one responds to the text. Very telling indeed.


Mark 13:20

20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them.



Who chose who?
Click to expand...
21 And then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is [k]the Christ’; or, ‘Behold, He is there’; do not believe him; 22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show [l]signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

Gee, now what was that about being predestined to heaven or hell?
 
T

Tobby17

Guest
#46
#46
How do calvinists explain 1Tim 2:4 & 2Pet 3:9??
 
lil_christian

lil_christian

Senior Member
#48
Mar 14, 2010
7,489
73
48
27
#48
jimmydiggs said:
Yet, no one responds to the text. Very telling indeed.


Mark 13:20

20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them.



Who chose who?
Click to expand...
Who was He talking about? ALL of the elect, or SOME of the elect? Ok from what I've seen on most verses on the elect, the elect are not those who have been "Elected" by God Himself to go to heaven, it's those who have said yes to God's gift. Congratulations! You're elected. Jesus chose to love us first. He chooses to offer EVERYONE that gift. Jesus is our Intercessor.

Isaiah 53:12
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
 
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Non-Believer

Non-Believer

Banned
#50
Dec 20, 2011
19
0
0
#50
I realize this thread has gone off on a bit of a tangent, but I would like to comment on the original post.

If the "natural man" is what you would call the peoples of hunter gatherer tribes everywhere ( in other words, if you would call hunter gatherer peoples the "natural man") then the original scripture posted is so completely wrong.

the lives of the peoples in hunter gatherer tribes REVOLVE around spirituality, their spirtuality is the most important thing to these people, other than their own survival of course. Although I'm sure many of you are completely unfamiliar with the way hunter gatherer tribes live and work, I promise you what I have said is true. they are not heathens who have no spirit, in fact they are probably the most spiritual peoples on earth today.
 
lil_christian

lil_christian

Senior Member
#51
Mar 14, 2010
7,489
73
48
27
#51
Non-Believer said:
I realize this thread has gone off on a bit of a tangent, but I would like to comment on the original post.

If the "natural man" is what you would call the peoples of hunter gatherer tribes everywhere ( in other words, if you would call hunter gatherer peoples the "natural man") then the original scripture posted is so completely wrong.

the lives of the peoples in hunter gatherer tribes REVOLVE around spirituality, their spirtuality is the most important thing to these people, other than their own survival of course. Although I'm sure many of you are completely unfamiliar with the way hunter gatherer tribes live and work, I promise you what I have said is true. they are not heathens who have no spirit, in fact they are probably the most spiritual peoples on earth today.
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Trying to discuss this without including God is impossible, sorry to say...I don't even really get where you're coming from or what you're trying to say
 
F

Forest

Guest
#52
#52
lil_christian said:
Romans 11:36
For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

From Him - is the free gift of salvation

Through Him - We have a sacrifice and a High Priest

To Him - Are all things.
Ephesians 5:2
and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.

Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Thank you, have a good day. :D
Click to expand...
Did you take note in Eph 5:2 that you quoted, that Christ's sacrifice was to God and not to man? Christ did not offer himself for man's acceptance but for God's acceptance. We do not choose him until he has first chosen us.
 
F

Forest

Guest
#53
#53
lil_christian said:
21 And then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is [k]the Christ’; or, ‘Behold, He is there’; do not believe him; 22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show [l]signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

Gee, now what was that about being predestined to heaven or hell?
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If possible, means it is not possible to deceive the elect.
 
F

Forest

Guest
#54
#54
Tobby17 said:
How do calvinists explain 1Tim 2:4 & 2Pet 3:9??
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I don't klnow who you are directing your request to, but I will try to explain these verses of scripture. First of all I have never read or studied from John Calvin's writtings. I believe that scripture explains its self. All of the scriptures must harmonise together or you don't understand the truth of the doctrine of Christ. 1 Tim 2:4, The "all men" has to be "all of his elect" to harmonise with all other scriptures. There is a salvation in coming unto the knowledge of the truth, but it is not eternal salvation. A person cannot understand the truth by his own intelect, but it has to be revealed unto him by the Spirit. Salvation's difinition is "to be delivered". When a person understands the truth he is delivered from the burden of depending upon his good works to save him eternally. That is a very heavy burden to bear, I know, because I was not revealed the truth, though I deligently searched, until I was sixty two years old. Jesus said, "you shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free (not meaning free for heaven, but free from the burden of depending upon your own good works to gain heaven). 2 Pet 3:9, We have to go back to 2 Pet 3:1 to find out who Peter is speaking to, which is them that have obtained like precious faith, so we can conclude that he is talking to people who have already been born of the Spirit. If we read verse 17 it will help to understand verse 9 better. verse 17, Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfasteness. In verse 9 Peter is warning them, also including himself by using the word "us-ward", not willing that any of the elect should perish(lose their fellowship with God) but that they should repent if they have been led astray by the error of the wicked. This chapter is warning us to beware of (verse 3) the scoffers, walking after their own lusts. I am a firm believer that if you understand anything that I have just tried to explain to you, it will have to come to you by the revealation of the Spirit.
 
F

Forest

Guest
#55
#55
lil_christian said:
Who was He talking about? ALL of the elect, or SOME of the elect? Ok from what I've seen on most verses on the elect, the elect are not those who have been "Elected" by God Himself to go to heaven, it's those who have said yes to God's gift. Congratulations! You're elected. Jesus chose to love us first. He chooses to offer EVERYONE that gift. Jesus is our Intercessor.

Isaiah 53:12
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Click to expand...
Your statement destroys the very meaning of the word elected. Elect means "chosen, picked out". Thats why he gave us the account of him choosing Jacob to love and Easu to hate, to show that his election might stand. Election is defined, in Thayer's Greek lexicon as "the act of picking out, choosing; a) used of the act of God's free will by which before the foundation of the world He decreed his blessings to certain persons". Some people, in trying to honour themselves, claim, like you do, that he foreknew those who would do good works and choose him, but in Ps 14:2-3, it tells us what He saw when He looked at what men would do. Ps 14:2-3, The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men to see if there were any that did understand and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#56
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#56
Forest, your views of God are so screwed up I feel sorry for you. I hope nobody here takes you seriously. It's sad how deeply you've fallen into Calvinism.
 
Z

Zilla64007

Banned
#57
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
5
0
#57
Forest said:
The natural man has no desire to know spiritual things and indeed he cannot know them 1 Cor 2:14.
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is the gentile the natural man?

"14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel."

like i said in your other thread "the depravity of man", this does not make man divine, nor does it make him already saved... it keeps man responsible for his own actions, and does not make God responsible for the sins of man.
 
Z

Zilla64007

Banned
#58
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
5
0
#58
forest, i believe it is safe to say that you are under the false and non-biblical assumptions of Calvinism
 
T

Tobby17

Guest
#59
#59
Forest said:
I don't klnow who you are directing your request to, but I will try to explain these verses of scripture. First of all I have never read or studied from John Calvin's writtings. I believe that scripture explains its self. All of the scriptures must harmonise together or you don't understand the truth of the doctrine of Christ. 1 Tim 2:4, The "all men" has to be "all of his elect" to harmonise with all other scriptures. There is a salvation in coming unto the knowledge of the truth, but it is not eternal salvation. A person cannot understand the truth by his own intelect, but it has to be revealed unto him by the Spirit. Salvation's difinition is "to be delivered". When a person understands the truth he is delivered from the burden of depending upon his good works to save him eternally. That is a very heavy burden to bear, I know, because I was not revealed the truth, though I deligently searched, until I was sixty two years old. Jesus said, "you shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free (not meaning free for heaven, but free from the burden of depending upon your own good works to gain heaven). 2 Pet 3:9, We have to go back to 2 Pet 3:1 to find out who Peter is speaking to, which is them that have obtained like precious faith, so we can conclude that he is talking to people who have already been born of the Spirit. If we read verse 17 it will help to understand verse 9 better. verse 17, Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfasteness. In verse 9 Peter is warning them, also including himself by using the word "us-ward", not willing that any of the elect should perish(lose their fellowship with God) but that they should repent if they have been led astray by the error of the wicked. This chapter is warning us to beware of (verse 3) the scoffers, walking after their own lusts. I am a firm believer that if you understand anything that I have just tried to explain to you, it will have to come to you by the revealation of the Spirit.
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I really do hope for the sake of everyone that what you just wrote is a VERY BIG JOKE..
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#60
#60
Forest said:
First of all I have never read or studied from John Calvin's writtings. I believe that scripture explains its self.
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i tend to believe people at their word and truthfully I have never meet another "Calvinist" who believe as Forest does, so personally I think it would be good if people address the issues instead of slapping a label that may or may not actually fit his beliefs.

Adding "elect" after "all" is just that ADDING to the Bible

changing the meaning of words and adding words to harmonize the Bible to your misguided beliefs is not very good Biblical discernment.
 
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