THE NATURAL MAN

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shroom2

Banned
#21
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#21
jimmydiggs said:
Could you post psalm chapter 5 please?
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Why? Because it contains OT language that says God hates some people? Do you feel that makes God a hater? Do you feel He says "I'll save you, but not you", just because?

1 John 1:5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

1 John 4:8) He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 Tim 2:4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Pet 3:9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#22
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#22
Forest said:
Shroom, you have difficulty making the scriptures harmonise. There are too many scriptures that you do not have an explaination for. Believing is a work of man and that is your false doctrine. I have explained Rom 10 several times to you that harmonises with the doctrine of Christ which is the doctrine of limmited atonement.l
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Your explanations are wrong, Forest. You cannot "harmonise" the scriptures without blatantly ignoring and twisting many of them into what you need them to say to make Calvinism fit together.
 
F

Forest

Guest
#23
#23
shroom2 said:
Your explanations are wrong, Forest. You cannot "harmonise" the scriptures without blatantly ignoring and twisting many of them into what you need them to say to make Calvinism fit together.
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Lets hear, if you believe that God wants to eternally save all mankind, how blatantly and twisted you can explain Dan 4:35, Ps 10:4, Isa 14:24, Isa 50:2. All scripture must harmonise or you don't have the truth.
 
I

Israel

Guest
#24
#24
Forest said:
Lets hear, if you believe that God wants to eternally save all mankind, how blatantly and twisted you can explain Dan 4:35, Ps 10:4, Isa 14:24, Isa 50:2. All scripture must harmonise or you don't have the truth.
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Daniel 4:35

35And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

ALL INHABITANTS of the earth, not just the elect are reputed as NOTHING. No matter how much you believe, no matter how obedient you think you are, you are as the grass to God.All men fall in death. He does according to His will in the army of heaven AND among those in the earth! WHAT IS NOT IN HIS POWER!? The clean, the unclean, for all are under authority, and ALL AUTHORITY, even satan is subjected to the will of the Most High. Truly, who CAN stay His hand? So basic common sense 101 should prevail by me stating the obvious. If God controls everything in heaven and everything in earth, and He does according to HIS WILL WITH THEM; if it is then His will that ALL men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth, WHO CAN STAY HIS HAND!?

Palms 10:4

4The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.

under the carnal mind a man's thoughts is not on God, and everyman has done this.

Isaiah 14:24

24The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

Explained in short in God's will.
 
L

loveme1

Senior Member
#25
Oct 30, 2011
8,087
190
63
#25
I think we think too much about it, who will or won't be saved is not our decision. God will judge us all individually. Remember the part where a man that does not hear of the bible? I think salvation is open to all, yet the Lord knows that some will not come to him even on the day of judgement.

Our Lord knows us inside out, and knows who will not believe before we are born. Being God and being man is very different. We can not explain Gods thoughts he knows best. If we believe that everyone can be saved then we will not discriminate. I really think we need to work on saving ourselves and presenting people with the word of God.

Remember the Lord knows everything, he knows all that will come to pass, and that includes who will accept salvation.
We however do not, and must spread the news of Salvation.
 
duewell

duewell

Senior Member
#26
Mar 5, 2011
350
9
18
#26
1Cor 2:14. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

you have no idea how much we love you and how far we will go so that you can become a part of that love. focus on the teachings of peace and love taught by Jesus. the Spirit will harmonize you. it will show you love like it was before. i want you to understand, those who have discerned through the Spirit easily see those who have not yet done this. you do not understand us and consider us foolish. we are patient, we know that Christ our king will lead you to understanding when he feels you are ready for it. regardless of how much you argue about it before then. please stop using the bible to attack each others faith and understanding. you make it harder for yourself. our goal is not to get people to join our respective churches, it is to get people to Jesus. then they will discern the word through the Spirit. we do this through witnessing how Jesus intervened and changes out lives. every day is sunday and the whole world is a church. even if someone has never read the bible, if they ask Jesus for help, Jesus answers. the truth of our soul is written in our eyes.

Duewell
the rainbow connection
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#27
#27
Forest said:
The natural man has no desire to know spiritual things and indeed he cannot know them 1 Cor 2:14.
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Romans 8:7
(7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
John 3:3
(3) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:17
(17) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


 
F

Forest

Guest
#28
#28
Israel said:
Daniel 4:35

35And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

ALL INHABITANTS of the earth, not just the elect are reputed as NOTHING. No matter how much you believe, no matter how obedient you think you are, you are as the grass to God.All men fall in death. He does according to His will in the army of heaven AND among those in the earth! WHAT IS NOT IN HIS POWER!? The clean, the unclean, for all are under authority, and ALL AUTHORITY, even satan is subjected to the will of the Most High. Truly, who CAN stay His hand? So basic common sense 101 should prevail by me stating the obvious. If God controls everything in heaven and everything in earth, and He does according to HIS WILL WITH THEM; if it is then His will that ALL men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth, WHO CAN STAY HIS HAND!?

Palms 10:4

4The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.

under the carnal mind a man's thoughts is not on God, and everyman has done this.

Isaiah 14:24

24The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

Explained in short in God's will.
Click to expand...
God does not will that all men be saved. only those that he gave to his Son John 6:37-41. There is a salvation (deliverance) in coming unto the knowledge of the truth, but it is not eternal salvation. We are all born a natural birth into this world and are but natural beings. 1 Cor 2:14 the natural man cannot descern spiritual things, they are foolishness unto him. The natural man will not be changed until God quickens him to a spiritual life Eph 2:5. The natural man has no ability to choose to serve God.
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#30
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#30
Forest said:
God does not will that all men be saved.
Click to expand...
1 Tim 2:4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Looks to me like a direct contradiction of the Word of God.
 
M

mpaper345

Banned
#33
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
0
#33
The natural man cannot understand the things of God because the flesh will rebel against the truth,and God said there is no good thing that dwells in the flesh.

17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.(Galatians 5:17).

The flesh and the Spirit are against each other,and contrary to each other,so the natural man,seeing they are led of the flesh,will be against the word of God.

The flesh does not want to accept the truth,because the flesh wants to exalt itself,and be arrogant.
 
F

Forest

Guest
#34
#34
duewell said:
1Cor 2:14. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

you have no idea how much we love you and how far we will go so that you can become a part of that love. focus on the teachings of peace and love taught by Jesus. the Spirit will harmonize you. it will show you love like it was before. i want you to understand, those who have discerned through the Spirit easily see those who have not yet done this. you do not understand us and consider us foolish. we are patient, we know that Christ our king will lead you to understanding when he feels you are ready for it. regardless of how much you argue about it before then. please stop using the bible to attack each others faith and understanding. you make it harder for yourself. our goal is not to get people to join our respective churches, it is to get people to Jesus. then they will discern the word through the Spirit. we do this through witnessing how Jesus intervened and changes out lives. every day is sunday and the whole world is a church. even if someone has never read the bible, if they ask Jesus for help, Jesus answers. the truth of our soul is written in our eyes.

Duewell
the rainbow connection
Click to expand...
Duewell, you will never be responsiable in saving somones soul to eternal heaven, Christ did that on the cross for everyone that will ever be saved eternally and they are the ones (his elect) that he gave to Christ. Christ saved all that will ever be saved the day he died on the cross.
 
F

Forest

Guest
#35
#35
shroom2 said:
1 Tim 2:4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Looks to me like a direct contradiction of the Word of God.
Click to expand...
Shroom, you have a short memory. I have explained 1 Tim 2:4 several times in a way that it will harmonise with other scriptures. There is a salvation(deliverance-the meaning of salvation is "a deliverance") in coming unto a knowledge of the truth but it is a timely deliverance and not eternal salvation. If you want to see a contradiction read Dan 4:35 and tell me that God wants to save all mankind but even though it is his will he cannot accomplish his will.
 
F

Forest

Guest
#36
#36
AnandaHya said:
yep they have a name for this tactic....



its working on me, what about you?
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If you are refering to me and the doctrine of Christ, there are much more repeted attempts to promote salvation by works of man than there is salvation by the grace of God without the help of man.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#37
#37
AnandaHya said:
yep they have a name for this tactic....



its working on me, what about you?
Click to expand...

It's not really a tactic, it can be part of one no doubt, but in and of itself it is not a tactic. Argumentum ad Nauseam is simply, as the picture states, an apathy generated by repetition.


The same could be said of preaching just about anything, including the Ressurrection. Does anything cease to be true just because it's repeatedly argued? I think not.


The Elect are chosen, not the choosers.


Mark 13:20
20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them.
 
F

Forest

Guest
#38
#38
loveme1 said:
I think we think too much about it, who will or won't be saved is not our decision. God will judge us all individually. Remember the part where a man that does not hear of the bible? I think salvation is open to all, yet the Lord knows that some will not come to him even on the day of judgement.

Our Lord knows us inside out, and knows who will not believe before we are born. Being God and being man is very different. We can not explain Gods thoughts he knows best. If we believe that everyone can be saved then we will not discriminate. I really think we need to work on saving ourselves and presenting people with the word of God.

Remember the Lord knows everything, he knows all that will come to pass, and that includes who will accept salvation.
We however do not, and must spread the news of Salvation.
Click to expand...
Eternal salvation took place on the cross for all that God gave to Christ and he will not lose one of them, but raise them up at the last day. Christ's sacrifice on the cross was to God for God's acceptance and not to man for man's acceptance. No matter how much man thinks that he can be the cause of a person to be saved eternally does not make it so. There hasen't been a soul saved eternally sense Christ died on the cross and there will not be. Christ finished the work that his Father sent him to do and said "it is finished" meaning that he had finished the work that God sent him to this earth to do. The one act of saving all of God's elect covers his elect from Adam to the last one of his elect to be born on this earth.
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#39
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#39
Forest said:
Eternal salvation took place on the cross for all that God gave to Christ and he will not lose one of them, but raise them up at the last day. Christ's sacrifice on the cross was to God for God's acceptance and not to man for man's acceptance. No matter how much man thinks that he can be the cause of a person to be saved eternally does not make it so. There hasen't been a soul saved eternally sense Christ died on the cross and there will not be. Christ finished the work that his Father sent him to do and said "it is finished" meaning that he had finished the work that God sent him to this earth to do. The one act of saving all of God's elect covers his elect from Adam to the last one of his elect to be born on this earth.
Click to expand...
Calvinism has poisoned your doctrine and thinking, Forest. God is not an ogre who before man even existed determined some would be save and some would not. God, through Christ, has made salvation available to any man who will choose to believe.
 
lil_christian

lil_christian

Senior Member
#40
Mar 14, 2010
7,489
73
48
27
#40
jimmydiggs said:
It's not really a tactic, it can be part of one no doubt, but in and of itself it is not a tactic. Argumentum ad Nauseam is simply, as the picture states, an apathy generated by repetition.

----------------


Mark 13:20
20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them.
Click to expand...
Hmmm...is that a tactic? :p I've seen you post the same thing about 4 times, including in your signature. :p
 
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