The neo-Gnostic spirit of New.Modern.Hyper Grace

[BenFTW]

What is your deal with this straw man thing? I am stating my conclusions based upon my observations. I think I'm being pretty accurate to state that consciousness, or awareness, of sin is pretty anathema to new.modern.hyper grace frame of mind. It's all about focusing on one's new identity in Christ. Any awareness of sin just impinges on that state of mind. You might disagree with this, but I do believe I have read from your posts where you have stated as much, and I'm certain I have read it from other people's posts, as well as websites.

If you sin and you have felt that you are now in some state in which your salvation is at risk (until you confess) then an awareness of sin would become oppressive (that is why its a false doctrine; the necessity of sin confession for forgiveness). It becomes a burden, and is ammunition for the accuser to oppress the mind.

It isn't so much so the awareness as it is the ignorance of what Jesus accomplished at the cross on our behalf that is the issue. Knowing you've sinned is a given, we know. Harping on it, letting it be the sole focus upon your existence (in avoidance of it) and condemning others for it is unhealthy and contradictory to the victory we have in Christ.

It is like telling a young man with a billion dollar inheritance to go work for financial independence when he already possesses the chief aim of all work. In the same way telling people to confess sins, repent (through sin confession), and wallow in guilt for forgiveness is antithetical to the victory and liberty we walk in through and in Christ (because we have forgiveness already through His finished work at the cross and by His blood).

In stating to not be sin-conscious and to be Son-conscious all that is meant is to not let sin condemn you, oppress you with guilt and fear, and alienate you from the Lord. It simply means to recognize all that Jesus accomplished at the cross (took care of sin, once and for all), and allow yourself to be confident before the Lord on the merit of Jesus Christ. The veil is broken, reconciliation has been made, and don't allow a misunderstanding of the Gospel to set yourself apart from God by the means of sin. Sin has been dealt with, and Lord is not forsaking us.

1 John 3:19-21King James Version (KJV)

19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If you sin and you have felt that you are now in some state in which your salvation is at risk (until you confess) then an awareness of sin would become oppressive (that is why its a false doctrine; the necessity of sin confession for forgiveness). It becomes a burden, and is ammunition for the accuser to oppress the mind.

I don't understand how you can say these things. An act of sin does not put one's salvation at risk. There is forgiveness for sin in Christ, not condemnation of it. Not confessing sin becomes a burden and ammunition for the accuser to oppress the mind. Confession is freedom from sin. Consider this psalm of David, who was a man after GOD's own heart.

[A Psalm] of David, Maschil.

Blessed [is he whose] transgression [is] forgiven, [whose] sin [is] covered. Blessed [is] the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit [there is] no guile.

When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.

I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. Psalms 32:1-5​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

How can you people honestly read this passage, and think it speaks of a person who was ever saved?

Jesus clearly says, I NEVER KNEW YOU.

If Jesus never knew you. you can mark his word. YOU WERE NEVER SAVED.

A man and woman get married. Years later they get divorced. Somebody asks the guy why the marriage went bad. He says, "I never knew her". Obviously he did know here carnally, and they became one flesh, but he never knew her. Her body was in the marriage, but her heart wasn't.

 

[BenFTW]

I don't understand how you can say these things. An act of sin does not put one's salvation at risk. There is forgiveness for sin in Christ, not condemnation of it. Not confessing sin becomes a burden and ammunition for the accuser to oppress the mind. Confession is freedom from sin. Consider this psalm of David, who was a man after GOD's own heart.

[A Psalm] of David, Maschil.

Blessed [is he whose] transgression [is] forgiven, [whose] sin [is] covered. Blessed [is] the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit [there is] no guile.

When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.

I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. Psalms 32:1-5​

Right, but what are you confessing for? Are you confessing, or coming in agreement, with God in regards to your sin that it is, indeed, sinful and give Him praise for Jesus' finished work (that took care of your sin/need for forgiveness)? Or, are you confessing your sin in order to obtain forgiveness, which according to the Gospel you already have in Christ due to His finished work?

Sin confession for forgiveness under the new covenant doesn't make sense (David was in the OT), because Jesus took care of our sin once and for all by His sacrifice. Among other things the word of God says He remembers our sins no more, our sins of scarlet are as white as snow, and according to David, "blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity." He doesn't impute sin to us. So, why would you confess your sin for forgiveness' sake when it isn't even being imputed to you? Matter of fact, it was imputed to Christ at the cross and He imputed His righteousness to you.

The key point here is that we are under a new covenant, and in this covenant the forgiveness of sins is not based upon sin confession but our faith-based confession of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, believing what He did on our behalf (paying the penalty for all our sin) and resurrecting on the third day. Sin has been dealt with, consider yourself dead to it and alive unto God.

 

[Grace777x70]

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Right, but what are you confessing for? Are you confessing, or coming in agreement, with God in regards to your sin that it is, indeed, sinful and give Him praise for Jesus' finished work (that took care of your sin/need for forgiveness)? Or, are you confessing your sin in order to obtain forgiveness, which according to the Gospel you already have in Christ due to His finished work?

Sin confession for forgiveness under the new covenant doesn't make sense (David was in the OT), because Jesus took care of our sin once and for all by His sacrifice. Among other things the word of God says He remembers our sins no more, our sins of scarlet are as white as snow, and according to David, "blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity." He doesn't impute sin to us. So, why would you confess your sin for forgiveness' sake when it isn't even being imputed to you? Matter of fact, it was imputed to Christ at the cross and He imputed His righteousness to you.

The key point here is that we are under a new covenant, and in this covenant the forgiveness of sins is not based upon sin confession but our faith-based confession of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, believing what He did on our behalf (paying the penalty for all our sin) and resurrecting on the third day. Sin has been dealt with, consider yourself dead to it and alive unto God.

Under the old covenant, Israel's sins weren't forgiven until the blood of the slain sacrifice was brought into the holiest place and sprinkled on the mercy seat. That was just a shadow of the reality. So the once-for-all death at the cross nearly 2000 years ago is not the point of forgiveness, but the mercy seat in heaven is, where Christ now sits to its right atoning for the sin of the world with his blood. There's no such thing as atonement for future sin. The new covenant was instituted to guarantee forgiveness of all sin whenever it occurs, but we have to have faith in that forgiveness and seek it out in time of need.

Therefore let us approach with confidence to the throne of grace, in order that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Hebrews 4:16​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Sin confession for forgiveness under the new covenant doesn't make sense (David was in the OT), because Jesus took care of our sin once and for all by His sacrifice. Among other things the word of God says He remembers our sins no more, our sins of scarlet are as white as snow, and according to David, "blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity." He doesn't impute sin to us. So, why would you confess your sin for forgiveness' sake when it isn't even being imputed to you? Matter of fact, it was imputed to Christ at the cross and He imputed His righteousness to you.

IMO because sin defiles our conscience. GOD can't have the relationship he wants to have with us when our conscience condemns us. Confession brings things to the light where the conscience can be cleansed and relationship restored.

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart and knows all things. Beloved, if our heart doesn't condemn us, [then] have we confidence toward God. 1 John 3:18-21​

 

[DP]

THAT is the whole theme throughout the NT. We CANNOT make things right. Never could. Never will be able to. That's why Jesus came to do it for us, and asked us to believe that He had.

I see you've never read this by our Lord Jesus then:

Matt 5:23-24
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;


24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
KJV

And here's a big one, we are also to confess our faults one to another amongst our Christian brethren:

James 5:16
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
KJV

 

[DP]

This is repentance . . .


This is forgiveness . . . when you have wronged someone . . . this is 1 John 1:9 . . This restores fellowship/communion with the Father and his Son and within the body.

I must be a "partial Gnostic" . . . My salvation is due to my faith in Jesus Christ - That sets me within the household of God and within the body of Christ. I believe that NOTHING can mess with that!

But I do believe that we will sin again - and that is what we need forgiveness for - to restore our relationship to the POWER source, God the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ - and also within the body - the fellowship with other believers. I have heard many say that "sin separates us from God" - we lose that connection - in order to restore that connection we need to be forgiven. I know that there are some that don't agree and that's okay - If they are OK with that stance and it sits well with them - there's not much you can say to sway them. I read that "past sins are forgiven" to me that is previous sins before I was born again. (Romans 3:25) The thing is - I do not ask forgiveness to restore my salvation . . . but to get me ungrounded! so that I have that open connection and can enjoy communication with my heavenly Father! And if this isn't correct - I really don't think God will necessarily care that I am asking forgiveness . . . .

This is such a common sense principle so easy to understand and written in so many NT Scriptures, it amazes me how any brother or sister could be deceived away from it by listening to men's traditions.

 

[DP]

You might want to go look that up.

He was not teaching them to beg for forgiveness. But, rather, He was explaining the Sheep & Goats thing to them..... In that He was telling them to understand that we are to forgive (show mercy to, and care for) others just as God cares for us and has shown mercy to us through His Son's sacrifice.

Nice attempt to change the subject, but you are way... off:

Luke 11:2-4
2 And He said unto them, "When ye pray, say, Our Father Which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.


3 Give us day by day our daily bread.


4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil."
KJV

Do you not ever pray that above prayer our Lord Jesus gave them and us to pray, asking forgiveness of our sins?

Will you say something ludicrous like, "Well, that was for only PRIOR to His crucifixion and resurrection...", etc., just so you can deny He gave us to pray that?

 

[DP]

False allegation, again. Hyper-Grace teaches a repentance that happens through a renewal of the mind. Our goals may be similar but our methods different. One is of the flesh and the other the Spirit. One brings lasting change, and the other temporal. Many people's idea/concept of repentance is simply a boast in the flesh, and a promise hardly kept. True repentance is a process of renewing our minds to who we are in Christ and letting that transform us (awaken us to righteousness).

The false allegations are your's, because God's Word teaches us about true repentance of the believer according to their conviction, examining their own behavior, and not some principle outside themselves. That is why Jesus gave us the prayer in Luke 11 that includes ASKING THE FATHER FORGIVENESS OF OUR SINS.

 

[DP]

King James Bible
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


SO, At your "first" belief in Christ, he still doesn't know you? At what point does He know believers?

Those are not believers. He NEVER knew them...........unbelievers.

Falsely claiming those He spoke that of were not believers on Him is a fast and easy way to deny that Scripture warning He gave us, but it won't work.

Matt 7:21-24
21 Not every one that saith unto Me, "Lord, Lord", shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father Which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?"


23 And then will I profess unto them, "I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
KJV

So unbelievers and the enemies of Christ are going around prophesying in His Name and casting out devils and doing many wonderful works in His Name?

I wish you could grasp how ludicrous your theory sounds, because what you're inferring is that Christ's good works manifests through His enemies, the "corrupt tree"!!!

Matt 7:17-20
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
KJV

 

[DP]

The gist of the dangers of Hyper-Grace explained...

8 Signs of 'Hypergrace' Churches — Charisma News

 

[Grace777x70]

There are a lot of mis-understandings about the hyper-grace message of the finished work of Christ for us....you can click on anything in blue to take you to the article that discusses what is being said.

The Hyper-Grace Quiz

In the past few months, there has been an aggressive backlash against the gospel of grace. This backlash has been seen in the Christian media, the blogosphere, and in the publication of books by respected Bible teachers. I have come across articles with titles like “Confronting the error of hyper-grace,” “The deception of hyper-grace,” and the oddly-titled, “What’s wrong with grace?”

The authors of these articles typically describe the gospel of grace as a “dangerous teaching,” a “false message,” and “a hyped-up, watered-down, seeker-friendly gospel.” Those who preach it are branded “false prophets,” “antichrists,” and “pied pipers” leading people to hell.

What do these critics have against the gospel of grace?

Their criticisms are numerous: Apparently the grace message is soft on sin. It’s opposed to the law. It’s a prosperity gospel. It’s unbalanced. It’s extreme. It’s a fad.

Some of these criticisms reflect abiding misperceptions (“grace promotes licentiousness”). Some of the criticisms are slanderous (“grace preachers are closet sinners”), while others are risible (“this message was responsible for the rise of Adolph Hitler and the runaway Democratic party”).

Presented with these sorts of claims, it is tempting to dismiss the opponents of the grace message as ill informed and reactionary. But not all of them are.

In January 2014, Dr. Michael L. Brown released a book entitled Hyper-Grace: Exposing the Dangers of the Modern Grace Message. In his book, Dr. Brown seeks to correct “some serious distortions and errors” that are being preached as part of what he calls “the modern grace message.” Dr. Brown portrays hyper-grace preachers as being opposed to repentance and the confession of sins, and he claims we think the words of Jesus have no relevance for us today.

Is this true? Do hyper-grace preachers actually think this way?

Since I am one of the hyper-grace preachers identified by Dr. Brown, I thought it might be helpful to respond to these accusations. To be fair, some of his accusations are spot on. On several occasions reading his book I said to myself, “Guilty as charged,” and I did so with a grace-addict’s grin. Still, a number of his accusations are based on misperceptions or they misrepresent what we are actually saying.

For instance, on page 37 of his book, Dr. Brown identifies four statements that he embraces and we, apparently, reject. They are (1) sanctification is progressive, (2) it’s healthy to confess our sins to God, (3) New Testament repentance includes turning away from sins, and (4) the words of Jesus are authoritative.

To three of these claims, most hyper-grace preachers would shout amen! Confession is healthy, repentance is often evidenced by a turning away from sins, and everything Jesus said is good and authoritative. The only claim we would reject out of hand is the first one, that sanctification is a process. (More on this here.)

As Dr. Brown’s book illustrates, much of the criticism made against the hyper-grace gospel and those who preach it is based on misperceptions and misunderstandings. To illustrate this, ask yourself whether the following claims are true or false.

The hyper-grace quiz

True or false…

1. Hyper-grace preachers are against repentance.
2. Hyper-grace preachers are against confession.
3. The hyper-grace gospel is universalism in disguise.
4. Hyper-grace preachers say it’s wrong to ask God for forgiveness.
5. Hyper-grace preachers say God is not grieved by your sin.
6. Hyper-grace preachers are against the law.
7. Hyper-grace preachers ignore the Old Testament.
8. Hyper-grace preachers disregard the words of Jesus.
9. The hyper-grace gospel encourages sin.
10. The hyper-grace gospel discourages obedience and holy living.
11. Hyper-grace preachers don’t talk about hell and wrath.

12. The hyper-grace gospel makes people lazy.

To have real dialogue, you need to hear both sides of the story. If your only exposure to the hyper-grace gospel comes from attack articles and Facebook debates, you may think that every statement in the above quiz is true. In fact, every statement is false. Each is either a fiction or a distortion of what the hyper-grace gospel actually says.

We will look at some of these claims in coming posts. But for now, I want to hear from you. Which of the claims above have you heard? Which have you believed?

And what are some other misperceptions you have encountered when telling others about the good news of God’s extreme, over-the-top, and hyper grace?

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a sure way to recognize the so called hyper-grace message of Christ.

How to Recognize the Hyper-Grace Gospel

The hyper-grace gospel declares that God’s love for you is unconditional and His grace is superabounding. It’s the how much mores that Jesus spoke of and the grace upon grace that John wrote of.

The hyper-grace gospel is easy to recognize for it is nothing more than boasting about Jesus—who He is and what He has done and what you can now do because of what He has done. If the message you’re hearing causes you to fix your eyes on Jesus, and moves you to shout for joy and give thanksgiving and praise for all He has done, chances are you’re hearing the hyper-grace gospel.

While a mixed-grace gospel is recognized by the presence of carrots and sticks, the hyper-grace gospel is marked by invitations. Here’s one:

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” (Matt. 11:28)

Here’s another:

“I want to come in and be with you.” (Rev. 3:20)

A mixed-grace gospel drives people with the law, but the hyper-grace gospel draws them with love. This is how Martin Luther distinguished the two messages:

A lawdriver insists with threats and penalties; a preacher of grace lures and incites with divine goodness and compassion shown to us; for He wants no unwilling works and reluctant services, He wants joyful and delightful services of God.

In a quest for holiness a mixed-grace preacher may preach a little law, a little self-help, or a little pop psychology, but it’s all just a flesh trip. In contrast, a hyper-grace preacher preaches Christ alone. Whatever your need, whether it’s salvation or sanctification, your supply is found in the One who promises to meet all your needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus (Php. 4:19).

It is essential that you learn how to distinguish the hyper-grace gospel from the many mixed-grace messages that may distract you from it. To help you do this, I have prepared a table showing 20 differences between the mixed- and hyper-grace gospels that you can print out and keep in your Bible.

The hyper-grace gospel is simple. You don’t need to read Hebrew or Greek to get it. Nor do you need to go to seminary or Bible school. To paraphrase Joseph Prince, the hyper-grace gospel is so simple it takes theologians to complicate it.

The hyper-grace gospel is the revelation of Jesus. It is the announcement that He is the beginning and the end, the first word and the last. It is the confident assurance that He who has begun a good work in you will carry it on unto completion. It is the happy revelation that in Christ, your searching is over and you have found your eternal resting place. In Him, you are already home.

Jesus is the hyper-grace gospel!

 

[FreeNChrist]

I don't understand how you can say these things. An act of sin does not put one's salvation at risk. There is forgiveness for sin in Christ, not condemnation of it. Not confessing sin becomes a burden and ammunition for the accuser to oppress the mind. Confession is freedom from sin. Consider this psalm of David, who was a man after GOD's own heart.

[A Psalm] of David, Maschil.

Blessed [is he whose] transgression [is] forgiven, [whose] sin [is] covered. Blessed [is] the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit [there is] no guile.

When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.

I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. Psalms 32:1-5​

He didn't say not to confess sin. That is your straw man.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Under the old covenant, Israel's sins weren't forgiven until the blood of the slain sacrifice was brought into the holiest place and sprinkled on the mercy seat. That was just a shadow of the reality. So the once-for-all death at the cross nearly 2000 years ago is not the point of forgiveness, but the mercy seat in heaven is, where Christ now sits to its right atoning for the sin of the world with his blood. There's no such thing as atonement for future sin. The new covenant was instituted to guarantee forgiveness of all sin whenever it occurs, but we have to have faith in that forgiveness and seek it out in time of need.

Therefore let us approach with confidence to the throne of grace, in order that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Hebrews 4:16​

So what, there's a big bucket of His blood "up there"? Didn't He shed His blood on the cross? Where's all this other blood coming from??

 

[FreeNChrist]

The false allegations are your's, because God's Word teaches us about true repentance of the believer according to their conviction, examining their own behavior, and not some principle outside themselves. That is why Jesus gave us the prayer in Luke 11 that includes ASKING THE FATHER FORGIVENESS OF OUR SINS.

The cross changed everything. Before it was do to get. After its do as has been done to you.

"Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you." Col 3:13

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

He didn't say not to confess sin. That is your straw man.

Try to keep up. In his very next post he questions the need to confess.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So what, there's a big bucket of His blood "up there"? Didn't He shed His blood on the cross? Where's all this other blood coming from??

From his feet, hands and side.