According to what I have learned, and I always have found this fascinating, recorded history began with writing down events from the inception of writing them down to the present. Now whether this applies to the writings that make up the Word, I do not know, but I do know, this being a web site calle Christian, and this forum being dedicated to the discussion of the Word makes me adhere to the Bible as source authority of time, this age, as we know it. This is based on faith. Therefore I read the Word, I believe It, and I worship God, Yahweh in so doing. It makes life so much easier, faith that is.
The Place of Oral Tradition
- Thread starter JaumeJ
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Jesus established ONE Church - ONE Body.
He didn't establish 50,000. We need to remember that.
As I stated before, this Church - this Body is called:
The Pillar and Foundation of Truth (I Tim. 3:15)
The FULNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23)
Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5)
Just as there can only be ONE truth, ONE Pillar and foundation of athat Truth and ONE fullness of that Truth - there can only be ONE Church - not 50,000 disjointed, splintered "versions" of it . . .
He didn't establish 50,000. We need to remember that.
As I stated before, this Church - this Body is called:
The Pillar and Foundation of Truth (I Tim. 3:15)
The FULNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23)
Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5)
Just as there can only be ONE truth, ONE Pillar and foundation of athat Truth and ONE fullness of that Truth - there can only be ONE Church - not 50,000 disjointed, splintered "versions" of it . . .
Here is the FIRST bit of evidence that the Deuterocanonical Books from the Septuagint were quoted or alluded to in the NT writings over 100 times.
Eph. 6:13-17 - the whole discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield, etc. is from Wisdom 5:17-20.
Let's see if you can refute this one because I've got about 100 more . . .
Eph. 6:13-17 - the whole discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield, etc. is from Wisdom 5:17-20.
Let's see if you can refute this one because I've got about 100 more . . .
It's also in history that Iraq was responsible for 9/11 and had chemical weapons.......... just because it's in history doesn't mean it's true
History doesn't tell us those things about Iraq. It says that this is what was believed at the time but later proven false.
All of the things Luther did and wrote about are matters of History and there's nothing you or I can do about it.
Is this the Scripture you're looking for?
John 1:1[SUP]1[/SUP] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.[SUP]2[/SUP] The same was in the beginning with God.
2 Timothy 3:16[SUP]16[/SUP] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Since Jesus is the living Word, the Word does have more authority than the church. Since the church is to walk in the Spirit, surely you know that the Spirit of God always lines up with the Word. Jesus gives authority to the church, true; but the church can only use authority according to the leading of the Spirit, and not by their flesh.
1 Corinthians 2:13 [SUP]13 [/SUP]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
The Father, The Word, and the Spirit are all one in perfect agreement.
1 John 5:7 [SUP]7 [/SUP]For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
When the church judges according to God's word, God honors the authority of his own Word.
Neither history nor tradition of men can claim no authority above the Word of God. It was the traditions of men that perverted the teachings of the scribes and Pharisees in Jesus' day and perverted the teachings of the original Catholic Church. After two strikes, you want to hang onto that? If you do, it will pervert you also.
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."
The Church agrees - all Scripture IS profitable (useful) for teaching doctrine, reproof, correction, etc., and every single Catholic doctrine is backed up by Scripture. NONE of it is the teachings of man. It is all God at work through the Holy spirit - just as Jesus guaranteed His Church in John 16:12-15.
And, you're right - Jesus IS the Word and He equates the Church with His very SELF:
Acts 9:4-5
He (Saul) fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting."
Saul (Paul) was persecuting the Church, yet Jesus chose to identiify HIMSELF as the one being persecuted.
The Church agrees - all Scripture IS profitable (useful) for teaching doctrine, reproof, correction, etc., and every single Catholic doctrine is backed up by Scripture. NONE of it is the teachings of man. It is all God at work through the Holy spirit - just as Jesus guaranteed His Church in John 16:12-15.
And, you're right - Jesus IS the Word and He equates the Church with His very SELF:
Acts 9:4-5
He (Saul) fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting."
Saul (Paul) was persecuting the Church, yet Jesus chose to identiify HIMSELF as the one being persecuted.
Are you kidding?? The entire Bible is the revelation of Jesus Christ!! Are you like the modern day Jews who will not read Isa. 53 or Psalm 22 because it sounds suspiciously like a "suffering Messiah?"
The entire Old Testament is about God choosing a people through which would come the Messiah. It is the record of the progress of these people, including the prophecies and the promises of God that Jesus would come and be king.
For example:
"For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isa. 9:6
I have heard anywhere from 300 to 600 prophecies were directly fulfilled in the coming of Jesus. I admit to never having studied them all, but it certainly is a good idea to study them to counter people who do not understand the entire purpose of the Bible was to reveal Jesus, and confirm him as Lord and Saviour of the world.
The entire Old Testament is about God choosing a people through which would come the Messiah. It is the record of the progress of these people, including the prophecies and the promises of God that Jesus would come and be king.
For example:
"For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isa. 9:6
I have heard anywhere from 300 to 600 prophecies were directly fulfilled in the coming of Jesus. I admit to never having studied them all, but it certainly is a good idea to study them to counter people who do not understand the entire purpose of the Bible was to reveal Jesus, and confirm him as Lord and Saviour of the world.
You're not understanding what I am saying. I know the Bible is the revelation of Jesus Christ.
What I am saying is that the Bereans ultimately believed that this guy from Nazareth named Jesus, who lived in the first century was the Messiah prophesied in Scripture. The prophecies were implicit or explicit but they NEVER mentioned Jesus of Nazareth. That came from ORAL teaching.
Do you understand the difference between implicit and explicit teaching in Scripture?
What I am saying is that the Bereans ultimately believed that this guy from Nazareth named Jesus, who lived in the first century was the Messiah prophesied in Scripture. The prophecies were implicit or explicit but they NEVER mentioned Jesus of Nazareth. That came from ORAL teaching.
Do you understand the difference between implicit and explicit teaching in Scripture?
It's also in history that Iraq was responsible for 9/11 and had chemical weapons.......... just because it's in history doesn't mean it's true
It is NOT in history that Iraq was "responsible" for 9/11
The case made before before the UN involved WMD's (true)
Resolution 1441 violations (true)
Saddam's Open Support for Terror (true)
Iraq DID have WMD's
read; "Saddam's General" by General Georges Sada
It was also history that Columbus discovered America. Then history had to be rewritten two more times after that to finally tell the truth of who actually did. History is not always recorded facts...... sometimes it's something written from one's own point of view. You couldn't add a point of view to a dollar and get a cup of coffee with it......
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I have been on the receiving end of your posts, tad curt? Certainly all the ones I read here could be viewed that way...you may have knowledge, but it is nothing if we do not have love....that's in the Bible....I think for those of us who are not so well- learned, we respond better to a gentle, more patient approach. Fruits of the Spirit? If we have no in dwelling of the Spirit, no amount of Knowledge will ever achieve anything in His name. God Bless you for your passion! many here try to put their beliefs rather forcefully, treating those that do not immediately agree with them as a bit dim...I am sure you are not doing that. We need to remember, many think they are right, but there is only one Truth. Regardless of what Bible we read, i trust in a God of the impossible, and for those with a seeking heart, He will guide them and reveal His Truth to them.....even through The Message! God Bless you. <><
God Bless you. <><
I have been on the receiving end of your posts, tad curt? Certainly all the ones I read here could be viewed that way...you may have knowledge, but it is nothing if we do not have love....that's in the Bible....I think for those of us who are not so well- learned, we respond better to a gentle, more patient approach. Fruits of the Spirit? If we have no in dwelling of the Spirit, no amount of Knowledge will ever achieve anything in His name. God Bless you for your passion! many here try to put their beliefs rather forcefully, treating those that do not immediately agree with them as a bit dim...I am sure you are not doing that. We need to remember, many think they are right, but there is only one Truth. Regardless of what Bible we read, i trust in a God of the impossible, and for those with a seeking heart, He will guide them and reveal His Truth to them.....even through The Message! God Bless you. <><
God Bless you. <><