The Rapture
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Well I will state, now, as I always have, that I see absolutely no "secret escape-pod Rapture" anywhere in the Scriptures. We will be caught up with Him at His final return. No "surprise" stuff in between.
So, I guess I get left out of this fantasy everyone else (except for a few of us) is waiting for, "all ready."
So, I guess I get left out of this fantasy everyone else (except for a few of us) is waiting for, "all ready."
T
For centuries Christians spoke about the second Coming of Christ until the nineteenth century when suddenly there was a second and third coming. When Jesus ascended on the mount of Olives the Angels told the Disciples that Jesus would return in the same manner as they saw him go. They didn't say he would hover above the earth like some kind of rescue copter.
Jesus said that at the end of the age he would send his Angels to separate the wheat from the tares. He would store the wheat and burn the tares. Both had to grow together until the harvest. There is no mention here of a secret coming only the
final second coming. Paul says there will be a falling away first then the man of sin will be revealed. It is only after that happens that Jesus returns. As the man of sin is part of the tribulation it is obvious by this passage that Jesus does not come before the tribulation starts. I am quite concerned about this Pre tribulation belief because it is giving millions of Christians a false sense of security making them unprepared for the events leading up to the second coming. It is possible that they will lose their faith.
Jesus said that at the end of the age he would send his Angels to separate the wheat from the tares. He would store the wheat and burn the tares. Both had to grow together until the harvest. There is no mention here of a secret coming only the
final second coming. Paul says there will be a falling away first then the man of sin will be revealed. It is only after that happens that Jesus returns. As the man of sin is part of the tribulation it is obvious by this passage that Jesus does not come before the tribulation starts. I am quite concerned about this Pre tribulation belief because it is giving millions of Christians a false sense of security making them unprepared for the events leading up to the second coming. It is possible that they will lose their faith.
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S
It is very important to understand what that falling away really means and how it is translated. It does not mean that believers loose their faith and fall away from the church. That is not at all consistent with Verse 7 of II Thess.2 which says that he who withholds will withhold until he be taken away. It is the church which withholds the man of sin who cannot be revealed until the church be taken away.
Here is an in depth study of the language of II Thess.
http://rev-gerald-wrenn.until-then.com/images/hopepdf/9_Comparing_Christs_Two_Comings.pdf
The fact that rapture is a new concept should not be shocking or in any way reflect that it is a misconception. Grace was not at all understood by the early church either where believers often did penance by beating themselves with whips or walking long distances on their knees.
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P
Yes sir it does make sense.
Mat 25
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Mat 24
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
mark 13
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
Mat 25
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Mat 24
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
mark 13
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
P
What about this;
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Acts 1
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
2 kings 2;
7 And fifty men of the sons of the prophets went, and stood to view afar off: and they two stood by Jordan.
10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.
Gen 5;
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Hardly anyone saw any of these raptures.
mat 27;
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Here the patriarchs are raised and later raptured to heaven,and I would wager not even 10% of christendom even knows about this secret
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Acts 1
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
2 kings 2;
7 And fifty men of the sons of the prophets went, and stood to view afar off: and they two stood by Jordan.
10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.
Gen 5;
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Hardly anyone saw any of these raptures.
mat 27;
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Here the patriarchs are raised and later raptured to heaven,and I would wager not even 10% of christendom even knows about this secret
P
The "early church" security blanket of "God ordained doctrine" (according to anti pre tribs) was actually a dreaded mess of catholicism. A killing,torturing machine that wiped out entire groups of christians and their writings....of which you and I would surely be burned as heretics.
Why in the world would anti pretribs make these flawed catholics their banner and cornerstone of "truth"
Why don't they say" We are so proud of these giants we stand with for burning and killing all heretics of a pretrib rapture."
It is like they stand on their ashes and say "...not one single reference in our catholic ancestors believed pretrib......not one.....just show us one"
Uh,well,yeah, they were burned alive,along with anything they wrote.